Rob Johnson or Kenji Johjima?

[slaterbug]

http://www.950kjr.com/pages/mariners_top_stories.html

Johnson's stats as a catcher:

- Johnson's ERA as a whole is 2.62. He has the best ERA for catchers in baseball. Russell Martin of the L.A. Dodgers has the second best at 3.34.

- Johnson's ERA with the Mariner starters is even better at 2.14.

- These are the following ERA's of the M's top three starters with Johnson behind the plate: Felix Hernandez (1.08), Erik Bedard (1.95), and Jarrod Washburn (2.05).

- One last stat for Johnson, the team is 17-13 with him behind the plate.

Johjima's stats as a catcher:


- Johjima's catchers ERA overall is 4.89. Nearly two runs worse then Johnson .

- Mariner starters ERA with Johjima behind the plate is 6.23. That is almost a four run difference between Johnson and Johjima.

- Now, here is the following ERA's of the M's top three pitchers with Johjima catching: Felix (7.22), Washburn (6.00) and Bedard (4.50). Those are all significant number changes with those three starters with the two different catchers.

- The teams record when Johjima is catching....10-14.

[Bay_Areas_Finest]

Catchers ERA = Very over-rated and meaningless stat.

Why are Johnson and Burke even in the majors? They are two of the worst hitters I've ever seen. So Clement really can't get PT in the bigs ahead of these scrubs? Are you serious?

Johjima is like Bench compared to those two.

[jumanji]

^
Clement has some knee problems that is keeping him from catching and he cant seem to throw anyone out. I absolutely give Johnson credit for the team's low Era when he's out there, coincidental or not. Neither Kenji or Johnson look like they can hit much.

[HeavyP]

That's funny. I'm in an e-mail conversation with one of the hosts on KJR about why Catcher ERA is garbage.

Give me Kenji everytime.

[jumanji]

That's funny. I'm in an e-mail conversation with one of the hosts on KJR about why Catcher ERA is garbage.

Give me Kenji everytime.

Kenji is probably going to get his job back at some point but let's not act like any of them are Johnny Bench. If the Era does rise when he's back does that change your mind at all?

[HeavyP]

Here's my email to him:

Fans seem to fall in with reserve catchers. I don't know why. I suspect it has to do with the mystique of being a defensive stalwart, one immeasurable by metrics known to man. Perhaps having to sit in the bullpen and warm pitchers up is something worthwhile. These guys are usually horrible hitters, the worst bats on the team that actually get paid to hit. Why? Because if they hit well, they would be playing.

So, you have a player on each team who has writers, fans, and television folk talking up his game calling abilities and whatnot because saying that his entire value comes from squatting for four hours a week isn't something you take pride in. Eventually it melts in. People start looking for things that feed this confirmation bias of Johnny McBackstop being a human computer. It becomes mainstay knowledge, and now every team in the league needs one of these veteran catchers, good at absolutely nothing outside of history lessons.

People have tried measuring the defensive contributions of catchers and it usually goes nowhere. The most common being Catcher's ERA. Perhaps even more flawed than pitcher ERA. Consider all of the variables thrown in:

1. Ballpark
2. Pitcher
3. Defense

Don't use Catcher's ERA. It's useless. We know this from studies in the past, not just from anecdotal comparisons. Catcher ERA doesn't tell you anything. You might as well figure out what color shoes people wear and how that effects slugging percentages.

I listen to the guys that pitch to them. Period. Again, I've had several off-the-record conversations with them and each guy -- to a man -- cannot stand throwing to Johjima. Terrible setup of target. Drops borderline pitches that could be called strikes. Doesn't follow a plan. Doesn't understand hitters tendencies. Botches signal sequences with runners on. And more...

I used catching ERA to inform the listeners how dramatic of a difference the amount of earned runs that were scoring between the two guys when they caught. I hate ERA also, but if one guy is giving up three times more earned runs than the other guy -- it's worth mentioning.

Johjima might not be the best game-caller. He might not handle a pitching staff the way Rob Johnson does. and you have more knowledge than I do to debate that. However, to use Catching ERA in that argument does it no service. The stat simply doesn’t reflect what happens on the field.

I think CERA is a terrible stat to evaluate a catcher, because it doesn’t reflect anything a catcher actually does…it reflects what a pitcher does. Stats are there to reflect outcomes, and the catcher calling a game has nothing to do with the pitch that is thrown. If a catcher catches every inning of every game for a team, his CERA is equal to the staff ERA. If he does the same thing next season, his CERA will likely be different. Did he become a worse catcher between the two seasons? If a catchers CERA is low, it means he has been fortunate to catch pitchers who were throwing well.

A longtime sports book editor and writer, Jeff Neuman, who now writes baseball articles for RealClearSports.com, talked about a study he read on backup catchers. Apparently, in this study, the author concluded that there is a tendency for ALL backup catchers to outperform their regular counterparts, judging by the pitchers’ performances. The reason is unknown, but I'd suspect that it probably has something to do with managers’ tendencies in using backup catchers. Maybe they only tend to be used with a team’s better pitchers, or in situations where pitchers have an advantage (day games?). I understand that in this situation Rob Johnson and Kenji Johjima both handle the same pitchers so it's moot but it's still interesting.

My problem is: I don’t think anyone could ever prove any catcher is a bad game caller. A pitcher can throw the right pitch and get hit, or the wrong pitch and get an out. I don’t know how you assess what the right or wrong pitch is. I think catchers probably have a general, maybe emotional overall effect on their pitchers, if anything. I suspect when a pitcher is feeling it and is in “the zone,” they probably don’t care who the catcher is or even pay much attention to him other than get the sign and aim. But I do think a catcher can probably screw a pitcher up. If the catcher looks lost defensively, and the pitcher starts worrying about Past Balls and Stolen Bases. Or the pitcher gets it in his head that the catcher doesn’t know the hitters and is not calling the “right pitches.” Or, if the catcher gets an attitude and argues with the pitcher or otherwise tries to meddle. If the catcher does anything to upset the pitcher’s rhythm, or destroy his composure or confidence, that’s bad.

The only knocks on Johjima as a catcher that I’ve heard that I can believe might be true are of this sort - things like pitchers not being very confident in him as a receiver or calling a game. While I doubt Johjima’s actual pitch calls or his defensive ability is a serious liability in terms of allowing runs, the fact that the issue comes up alot suggests, to me anyway, that he might have a problem inspiring confidence in pitchers.


And now I'm awaiting a response.

[Sweezo]

Ha...I saw that poll earlier today and voted for Johjima. As did a majority of people.

That article does more to show why I think KJR sucks than anything else. CERA is a joke...and your e-mail exchange does nothing to change that thought. I hate it when press types rely on the exclusionary "well I talked to the players" line, because they're just trying to create a position that someone without access to players apparently can't prove wrong.

[Sweezo]

Henry Blanco's CERA just went up...because Rob Johnson was batting, and he forgot to stop sucking.

[BlackMamba]

why would you compare catcher's ERA? i mean, is it a good stat to rank or value a catcher?

[Sweezo]

why would you compare catcher's ERA? i mean, is it a good stat to rank or value a catcher?

No. But then again ERA for a pitcher is a worthless stat too, and fans/pundits still use it shamelessly.

[Bay_Areas_Finest]

I might be for keeping Johnson or Burke if they knew how to throw, but both of those guys have absolutely horrible arms. Couple that with their awful bats, and it shows just how useless those fools are.