Wiz trade 5th pick to Minnesota

[Benjammin]

The amount of whining is ridiculous. There was only so much the guy could do with a #5 pick in a weak draft combined with a bunch of unwanted junk.

I think what most of you here are forgetting is that he just evaporated 3 bad contracts out of Washington's hands. Whether Washington will keep Miller or Foye after next season is a much better problem to have then the one we had before. That in itself is positive. Add to it that I really believe Washington is in a great position to potentially make another major deal. Preferably to help the back court which now is pretty thin. I rate the deal as an A-

Pretty great if you ask me.

Sorry, I'm about to go CCJ on everyone. Either this trade has got me real crabby or I've always been naturally crabby.

A minor point to correct with the posts above. Expiring contracts aren't "unwanted junk" or "bad contracts". They can actually prove to be very valuable in helping a team make a lopsided trade talent wise b/c another team wishes to dump long term salary.

Etan's expiring contract WAS an asset. Pech's expiring deal was a minor asset. DSong was the lone bad contract and even he had only two years left on his deal at $8 mil or so.

For example lets look at a franchise that seems to do things the right way as opposed to us.

The San Antonio Spurs on the same day acquired a solid, near all-star impact player in Richard Jefferson for nothing more tha expiring contracts. They gave up Bruce Bowen (washed up), Kurt Thomas (nearly washed up) and Fabricio Oberto (scrub). That deal was not made for talent, it was made by Milwaukee to get out of RJ's deal.

On the hand, you have the delusional Wizards front office, apparently believing all they need is depth, willingly give up a top #5 choice (valuable enough that more than 10 teams called the Wizards inquiring about the pick!) AND two expirings for Mike Miller & Randy Foye. Two decent role players that may be both suited as 6th men as opposed to starters. No one can make a legitimate claim that either is anything more than exceedingly average.

So lets look at this again. San Antonio, a team having a big three of their own that's won championship but not happy after a first round exit, acquire a 1st line player for nothing. The Wizards on the other hand, seemingly content with their big three that's won nada, sacrifice alot more to add two lesser players.

That's the difference b/w a championship caliber franchise and a organization that lives and breathes in mediocrity.

Preach it brother! When you look at the two deals, you can't help but be impressed with what the Spurs did and completely underwhelmed with what the Wiz did. The Spurs got a better player without trading a top 5 pick in the deal. Now I will withhold judgment on the Wiz deal until I see if there any other moves to follow it up, but by itself I would give the move a C- and I'm being kind.

[MJG]

NY fans are pizzed we didn't trade with them....some even bewildered.

Almost makes the damn thing worth it.

Seriously. I can just see the "But ... but we offered them Hughes AND Jeffries! WTF is wrong with them?".

[fugop]

A few days ago, I posted a brief argument for why Foye would be a decent acquisition for the backcourt. His numbers aren't terrible anywhere, and he's physical, if undersized. He's a quintessential combo guard. He's basically the height/length as Antonio Daniels, but probably even a bit stronger.

Personally, I've always wanted to see Arenas play with another combo guard who could shoot and actually finish at the rim. AD would drive in the the lane with reckless abandon, but needed a call to finish.

I'm not thrilled about Miller playing SG, but I have long wanted to always have decent 3pt shooters on the floor at the 1-2-3. It reduces our reliance on Jamison's perimeter games, letting us run a more conventional PF. Whether that's Blatche, or even McGuire, or McGee, or someone we acquire in a trade doesn't really matter.

I'd really like to see Jamison + Stevenson for Elton Brand. Give EJ two of his favorites, take a risk on a traditional PF.

[Pitbull]

I'm cool with the trade -- we've improved, but remain a one-and-done playoff team... Actually, strike that -- we have a reasonable shot at making the second round depending on our match-up.

Kill the Amare talk right now... You guys are setting yourselves up for disappointment. If Ernie makes another trade, it'll be a small, minor move that swaps our backcourt glut for a front court pine rider.

Ernie has a chubby for the big three and will never get value for the scrubs we have left. Teams look at the Wiz and know we're not negotiating from a position of strength. Don't be surprised if we stay put.

[Rafael122]

Well, the Spurs didn't trade a top 5 pick b/c they didn't have one. And they kept their three in tact. In the end, what's the difference?

I don't even think this move makes the Spurs a top 5 team in the West anyway. It's a move made by a team that is trying to keep up with everyone else.

[Ruzious]

2) How are we gonna resign them next year? Miller is going to be a FA and Foye a RFA. We simply don't have money for Arenas, Miller, Foye, Butler, Jamison, and Haywood (FA next year).

Actually that's one reason I'm agnostic on the deal myself. I look at Mike Miller's $9m expiring deal (+ Foye's, with no DSong contract trailing off into the future) and think, okay that's a one-year rental of an upgraded player, and a chance to re-sign Brendan during a year when a mess of teams will have a ton of money to spend, and if disappointed and unable to land a tier-one star, may at least try to upgrade with a veteran defensive center.

I dunno. Though that amounts to trading Curry/Harden/Tyreke/maybe-even-Rubio for cap room. Which I regret in its own right, and regret all the moreso because we will have to frickin' hear about it from all the toldjaso-birds who think that their particular player would have been available at that spot, years down the line when they break out and kill the Wiz two-to-four times a year plus playoffs. (Playoffs!?).

As for this year, Miller & Foye played under Flip's system (under Wittman and I think McHale) and the coach is quite familiar with their games (he was the color commentator on the braodcast + local radio IIRC). Grunfeld's metier is to find the players needed for his coach to play the style they want to play, here you have two players who can excel in the pick and roll arsenal that Flip likes to showcase. There's no doubt the roster will still undergo a flux here and there. Miller should be able to run the zone defense fine even as a big 2-guard, cutting off angles, funneling players in towards the baseline & Haywood and Blatche. If the playbook is notoriously complex as it sounds, well Nick Young would have struggled a ton without a guy to show him how it's done.

But I'm disappointed you know because I liked the upside of a couple prospects. Pretty sure there will be a top quality player who shows up at 5 & after. I'd like the deal better if I heard we got the Minny #18, just because I like Christmas presents, & the unopened potential they represent. That box could contain every single one of the Micronauts for all I know, and that would be cool.

So: does it upgrade the team? Yes. Is it a quicker upgrade than adding the #5 pick alone? Yes. Is it the rebus equation that spells champ-young-ship? No. No it's not. Not by itself anyway. But our offense, with the ball whipping around to exactly the open man at just the right time (when Butler, Gil and MikeMillions can afford to be on the floor together) well that's gonna be a really pretty thing, many nights.

So. No real bitching. More of a <shrug> at landing known commodities more than a gamble on something really good. We will be mad-deep this year. We will get playing time for Blatche and McGee (bless the frontcourt with good health pleasethanks) and Haywood for that matter. One way or the other it should be interesting. I always feel robbed though when we have nothing to get all jazzed about on Draft night.

Great perspectives. I hadn't even thought of the Flip Factor. The Wiz do indeed NEED to keep Haywood, so yeah - we might have traded the pick for a 1 year rental and then cap relief, but... we don't know what other moves will be made.

And if EG gets to keep the 2nd round pick, he'll make the draft interesting.

[pancakes3]

Jamison + X for Brand would be ideal but that's pretty unlikely.

The best upgrade we can hope for as far as power forwards go is to offer Blatche/Young + X for the draft rights to Hill. There really aren't that many good young PF prospects out there:

Jason Thompson
Anthony Randolph
?

[MJG]

Hollinger's analysis:

Today the Wizards agreed to a deal that sends Mike Miller and Randy Foye from Minnesota to Washington for the No. 5 pick and the flotsam otherwise known as Etan Thomas, Darius Songaila, and Oleksiy Pecherov. The trade is pending the procedural task of Thomas getting $1.5 million to walk into the Wizards' offices and sign a piece of paper saying he won't use his early termination option.

It cost them a high pick, but Washington traded over $13 million in dead-weight contracts for two players ready to contribute in the backcourt immediately. Shooting guard has been Washington's Achilles heel ever since Larry Hughes left (did that feel as funny to you reading it as it did to me writing it?), but now they have a deadly ace shooter in Miller and a quality combo guard in Foye to back up both guard spots. No, they aren't great payers, but they're a heck of a lot better than Dominic McGuire and Mike James.

The trade also tips the Wizards' hand in other respects. No, they aren't trading Antawn Jamison, and no, they won't be holding a fire sale to get under the tax. They're on the 2007 Boston Celtics model, and they're going for it. It's a very risky strategy given how much depends on the recovery of Gilbert Arenas from two seasons lost to knee problems, and the Wizards still didn't solve their biggest problem (a glaring lack of defensive ability). Also, did I mention they won 19 games last year?

But by adding these two, they've certainly made themselves a fearsome offensive team. If Arenas is healthy they could very well lead the league in Offensive Efficiency, and if that happens, new coach Flip Saunders just needs to coax an average defensive effort from them to win a ton of games. Neither is likely, I should point out, but both are certainly possible, so as long as they're painted into a corner anyway by the foolish contracts they gave Arenas and Jamison a year ago, that appears to be where the Wizards will focus.

The trade also appears to make DeShawn Stevenson (owed more than $4 million) utterly expendable and Nick Young fairly portable too, so there could be other deals coming down the pike later this offseason. Certainly, Washington would like to have another veteran in the frontcourt -- youngsters Andray Blatche and JaVale McGee would have to play heavy minutes in the present set-up.

The cost here is the fifth overall pick, and it speaks to the undesirability of the contracts Washington unloaded that the Wolves could obtain such a coveted pick for two average players.

[jimij]

I'd love this deal if we could get one of Minny's picks. For all the talk of giving up the potential of the 5th pick (and I really wanted Evans), we still got a young guy in Foye who is a recent lottery pick with some decent upside while adding veteran players who certainly can help us win now.

I'd argue that the two biggest pieces (other than health) that this team has been missing have been a post up PF and a dead-eye shooter. Since we missed out on Griffin, we basically could kiss off the former (no we weren't giving up Butler for Amare and keeping AJ) and we finally have the latter. Adding Foye as the backup combo guard gives us quality depth at both guard positions and someone who can fill in if Gil's knee isn't right.

What I really don't understand about this deal is all the griping I keep reading about this wiping out our frontcourt depth. Pech should never play, Etan is useless even if healthy so losing them is basically a non-event. Losing DS is a bummer, but with Haywood back, we essentially have at least as much depth up front as we did last season. I see our PF/C rotation as a five man unit of Wood, AJ, Blatch, McGee and McGuire. Let's not forget that Dom can plan PF against smaller lineups (for instance, Orlando) and is certainly a shot blocking presence, especially if he finally gets to play the position next to Haywood.

All in all, I think this is a solid deal that accomplishes what the team wanted to accomplish which is make the attempt to win now. If we aren't re-tooling completely (and we aren't) then it makes sense.

[doclinkin]

Doc: of course there's going to be an absolute stud at #5 or after. Who's to say the Wiz would actually pick the right one if they kept the pick? I know you don't want to hear this, but even Curry has a high bust probability.

Hear it, I've said it. I said (in the Draft thread vol 1) it was a gamble, and I was willing to be on that island all my own because I liked the roll of that die. I agree, Ernie's move was a safe move, he has a history of safe moves. That's fine, it just tends to keep us on the better side of mediocre. But incremental improvement doesn't yet seem to lead to championships as far as I can tell. Superstars lead to championships-- but you tend to only get those with luck, with a crapshoot, with a gamble. Was there a superstar at #5? Mmmn prob'ly not. Were there better players than Foye + Miller-- oh no f-ckin doubt. If you trust your instincts and scouts you gamble on yourself, risk it. That's all. And hey Rubio could have fallen, even if he didn't play here his first year.

Are we better? Yes. Now we're definitely better off now than when we had Jarvis, Ruffin, Calvin Booth, etc. No question, yes. And with our top players healthy, playing at peak performance, with, um, a synthetic ball.... well even with Jarvis et al, well we've shown we're pert dern good.

But championship? Nope. Superstar? Nope. Even Gil --our most consistent All-Star-- he can play incandescent on some nights, but it's not like he ever dominated that All-star game.

Essentially, now, our best chance at a landing superstar relies on developing McGee. Miller and Foye, they're complementary role-players. Not a bad thing, but little star potential in their own right. So it's back to chemistry, continuity, and now, at least depth and player development.

Just no real Draft Night pyrotechnics is all.

[Benjammin]

I keep reading these contracts referred to as so horrible. Two of them were EXPIRING DEALS. They're not pretty this year, true enough, but they mean cap space for someone in 2010. Songaila is overpaid but he's not nearly as bad a contract as Stevenson. I get that the Wizards will get more production from Miller and Foye than what they traded, but they had to pay the price of the 5th pick for perhaps only a one year rental of two rather average players.

[80sballboy]

They'll make another move tomorrow or Thursday. Just hope it's not everybody's fave ex-Hoosier--Wiz.

[Ruzious]

Preach it brother! When you look at the two deals, you can't help but be impressed with what the Spurs did and completely underwhelmed with what the Wiz did. The Spurs got a better player without trading a top 5 pick in the deal. Now I will withhold judgment on the Wiz deal until I see if there any other moves to follow it up, but by itself I would give the move a C- and I'm being kind.

It sounded good, but Richard Jefferson (who's no longer the great leaper he used to be) is no better than Mike Miller, and Oberto was an underrated contributor to them when healthy. Detroit noticed and traded for him today.

[jimij]

Let's not forget that with Miller, he's also a valuable trade asset at the deadline (especially in concert with James's expiring deal). If we can land a better player, than at least we can send a trade partner someone who can actually play.

Plus, Foye may only have a year left but he's a restricted free agent so it shouldn't be too hard to keep him if he's any good.

[jimij]

Preach it brother! When you look at the two deals, you can't help but be impressed with what the Spurs did and completely underwhelmed with what the Wiz did. The Spurs got a better player without trading a top 5 pick in the deal. Now I will withhold judgment on the Wiz deal until I see if there any other moves to follow it up, but by itself I would give the move a C- and I'm being kind.

It sounded good, but Richard Jefferson (who's no longer the great leaper he used to be) is no better than Mike Miller, and Oberto was an underrated contributor to them when healthy. Detroit noticed and traded for him today.

I agree with your analysis on Jefferson, but Detroit could care less about Oberto except for the fact that they can immediately waive him and save half his salary since its not guaranteed. It's all about creating add'l cap space to sign Boozer and Gordon for Detroit.

Oberto is done.

[Ruzious]

Preach it brother! When you look at the two deals, you can't help but be impressed with what the Spurs did and completely underwhelmed with what the Wiz did. The Spurs got a better player without trading a top 5 pick in the deal. Now I will withhold judgment on the Wiz deal until I see if there any other moves to follow it up, but by itself I would give the move a C- and I'm being kind.

It sounded good, but Richard Jefferson (who's no longer the great leaper he used to be) is no better than Mike Miller, and Oberto was an underrated contributor to them when healthy. Detroit noticed and traded for him today.

I agree with your analysis on Jefferson, but Detroit could care less about Oberto except for the fact that they can immediately waive him and save half his salary since its not guaranteed. It's all about creating add'l cap space to sign Boozer and Gordon for Detroit.

Oberto is done.

I stand corrected.

[Benjammin]

Preach it brother! When you look at the two deals, you can't help but be impressed with what the Spurs did and completely underwhelmed with what the Wiz did. The Spurs got a better player without trading a top 5 pick in the deal. Now I will withhold judgment on the Wiz deal until I see if there any other moves to follow it up, but by itself I would give the move a C- and I'm being kind.

It sounded good, but Richard Jefferson (who's no longer the great leaper he used to be) is no better than Mike Miller, and Oberto was an underrated contributor to them when healthy. Detroit noticed and traded for him today.

I will grant you that Oberto does have some value (because of his contract), but I will disagree that Jefferson is no better than Mike Miller. Neither is a stellar defensive player, but Jefferson is better than Miller. Jefferson scores at a much higher rate. Miller is a better rebounder and ball handler. Miller is a better shooter, Jefferson is a better finisher. If Foye blossoms, then the deal will look better than it does now. Plus, we do have to see what followup moves may be coming.

[BYRDMAN RULZ]

When I first heard about the trade, I was not moved at all. It is starting to grow on me, but I will reserve judgment until I see if we make any additional moves. Maybe with Milller and Dom to man the 3 spot, and maybe even Jamison in a pinch, they can now move Butler and get Amare, though I still think it is a risky move.

I think Amare has a woody for NY and dont expect him to sign with the Wiz long-term. I could be wrong.

[dobrojim]

Don't kill me guys, but I'm going to miss Darius Songaila. He was a great back up big. He made great cuts, passes, was a dead eye shooter off the pick and roll out to 20 ft, and when he was guarding PF's he played good post defense. Probably the best post defender last year for the Wiz. This must mean the FO has high hopes for Blatche. He's going to get 30 minutes a game now as the primary PF and C back up. I hope EG has a second trade in the making to ride ourselves of DStevenson. He didn't have a role on this team before the trade, he might as well not even show up to TC this season.

+1 on Darius - but that does mean that AB better have his head
screwed on right on a nightly basis. Darius was solid if not
asked to play C.

getting rid of ET was a no brainer, even if he was an expiring.

Pech is still a question mark.

Foye's stats on 82games don't look good to me at all.

Miller should be solid and adds the deep threat we didn't have
enough of last year.

On balance, not sure I like it as reported. But this may just be the
start. Or there may be another wrinkle that's not being reported
such as us getting back one of MIN's later picks (can you say either
Blair or TylerH?).

I was looking forward to one of the guards coming here and making
sure DeShawn only got spot duty. Maybe this means N1 will be expected
to play 25-30 mpg.

Gotta withhold final judgement for the time being.

[AceDegenerate]

Our retread GM strikes again. Man, and I thought the Jamison deal was bad, this one is the worst of his tenure.

#5 pick is better than Mike Miller & Randy Foye COMBINED right now, not even mentioning the productive backup we gave up and the prospect 7 FT'er.

Stephen Curry would have put up 20 ppg on the Wolves last season with better FG%. James Harden couldn't put up the #'s Foye did? Both are legit NBA players, not NBA scrubs like Miller & Foye.

This team is going nowhere even faster than before. :-\