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Wiz trade 5th pick to Minnesota

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Re: Wiz trade 5th pick to Minnesota 

Post#221 » by Dat2U » Wed Jun 24, 2009 3:41 am

Ruzious wrote:It sounded good, but Richard Jefferson (who's no longer the great leaper he used to be) is no better than Mike Miller, and Oberto was an underrated contributor to them when healthy. Detroit noticed and traded for him today.


Wow, that is abit of stretch. I think by any measure of statistical analysis, Richard Jefferson is the better player. Both offensively and defensively, even if at 29, RJ's athleticism has declined a bit.

Oberto is just valuable enough... to get waived in a couple of days.

Bottom line, the Spurs got RJ for scraps while we paid a premium price for two soon-to-be free agent role players to provide depth.

Ruz, I didn't know a guy with mediocre offensive numbers and subpar defense could be so good or that being thoroughly passive and refusing to shoot the ball even when your the best scoring option became a sign of high b-ball IQ but Miller better be as good as you say he is for the Wizards sake. And they better resign him and enjoy his services for years to come otherwise the Wizards and EG will look like complete idiots in making this deal.
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Re: Wiz trade 5th pick to Minnesota 

Post#222 » by Leto » Wed Jun 24, 2009 3:42 am

SAS trade was WAY better for SA. They youngest guy they traded, Oberto, is 34. Bowen is 38 and Thomas is 37. All those guys are done and they got a 20ppg scorer for it. You guys traded the #5 pick for two guys who really shouldn't be starters on any team going deep into the playoffs. Foye will be 26 in August so it's unlikely he'll develop. But, you never know. Anyway, you guys got hosed. Of course, the pick could turn out to be a complete bust. I do think this draft has a high bust potential.
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Re: Wiz trade 5th pick to Minnesota 

Post#223 » by DCZards » Wed Jun 24, 2009 3:43 am

Damn...I really wanted Evans, and now EG has gone and messed that up. But I can live with the trade. EG probably got more bang for the buck with this trade than he ever would have with the 5th pick. The Zards get better right away and won't have to groom a youngun' like my guy Tyreke for the next couple of years.

I like Foye. He still has a chance to be a decent player...maybe as good as anyone we would have gotten at 5. Just needs to stay healthy I thought Foye was closer to 6-2 turns out he's 6-4...at least that's how he's listed. That's a decent size. He's also muscular. I can see Foye teamed with Gil. He played mostly SG with Minny with Telfair at the PG. I expect Foye to start and for Miller to provide instant scoring and veteran leadership off the bench. Health has been an issue fo Miller too in recent years.

A poster mentioned earlier that Foye seems to turn it up a notch in the fourth quarter. He's right. I watched a lot of Randy last year. (You have a tendency to follow closely guys on your fantasy team and Foye was on mine last season.) The former 'Nova player had some impressive late game heroics with the T'Wolves. Reminded me of that GA fella he'll be running with next season.

What I like most about Foye is that he's a tough, won't-back-down little SOB. Growing up on the mean streets of Newark, NJ might have something to do with that.
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Re: Wiz trade 5th pick to Minnesota 

Post#224 » by dobrojim » Wed Jun 24, 2009 3:45 am

Chocolate City Jordanaire wrote:
no D in Hibachi wrote:CCJ, that trade would be alright, but does that mean Foye is strictly the back-up PG with Hughes, Young and Miller at SG?

Yes, until he loses the job due to poor play.

I think Hughes has absolutely sucked for the 3-4 years since he was a Wizard. However, if a deal's made he's the starter because of Gil and him going back.

The good points are Hughes would certainly be better than he has been since being a Wizard. He's a good fit with all the players on the team (I know Butler, too). Last, Hughes would have far more talented teammates than he did and a better coach.

I'm more than okay with a Hughes return, now, with Foye and Miller in the fold.


Not sure I agree. I just don't miss the L-boogie who would routinely screw up
2 on 1 breaks getting an offensive foul. And would shoot us out of as many games
as Juan Dixon.
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Re: Wiz trade 5th pick to Minnesota 

Post#225 » by doclinkin » Wed Jun 24, 2009 3:47 am

In terms of lotto equivalence, GMEG traded a #5 pick and got back a #5 and a #7 in MiMi and FoyeNotRoy.
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Re: Wiz trade 5th pick to Minnesota 

Post#226 » by Benjammin » Wed Jun 24, 2009 3:47 am

Foye is listed on draftexpress.com pre-draft measurements as 6-3 1/4 in shoes with a 6-6 1/4 wingspan (nothing special). He seems like a pretty stocky and strong guy with good leaping ability when healthy.
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Re: Wiz trade 5th pick to Minnesota 

Post#227 » by Dat2U » Wed Jun 24, 2009 3:52 am

Krizko Zero wrote:Our retread GM strikes again. Man, and I thought the Jamison deal was bad, this one is the worst of his tenure.

#5 pick is better than Mike Miller & Randy Foye COMBINED right now, not even mentioning the productive backup we gave up and the prospect 7 FT'er.

Stephen Curry would have put up 20 ppg on the Wolves last season with better FG%. James Harden couldn't put up the #'s Foye did? Both are legit NBA players, not NBA scrubs like Miller & Foye.

This team is going nowhere even faster than before. :-\


When EG was hired I said he was an average GM and he would turn us to the 2nd coming of the Ray Allen, Glenn Robinson & Sam Cassell led Milwaukee Bucks.

When we traded for Jamison, I said the move screamed of a short term fix and that's we'd never be better than mediocre.

Now this. This is probably his worst trade to date. At least Jamison could put up empty numbers every night and even made an all-star game or two. With Miller & Foye, we get two reserve quality players as one year rentals. For the **** 5th pick in the draft! The same 5th pick that teams were calling left and right for. I'd rather having **** James Harden than this bull.

Man **** this ****!
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Re: Wiz trade 5th pick to Minnesota 

Post#228 » by Ji » Wed Jun 24, 2009 3:57 am

The more I think about it...this trade is a disaster if we dont get Amare
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Re: Wiz trade 5th pick to Minnesota 

Post#229 » by KevinFCheng » Wed Jun 24, 2009 3:58 am

Dat2U wrote:
Krizko Zero wrote:Our retread GM strikes again. Man, and I thought the Jamison deal was bad, this one is the worst of his tenure.

#5 pick is better than Mike Miller & Randy Foye COMBINED right now, not even mentioning the productive backup we gave up and the prospect 7 FT'er.

Stephen Curry would have put up 20 ppg on the Wolves last season with better FG%. James Harden couldn't put up the #'s Foye did? Both are legit NBA players, not NBA scrubs like Miller & Foye.

This team is going nowhere even faster than before. :-\


When EG was hired I said he was an average GM and he would turn us to the 2nd coming of the Ray Allen, Glenn Robinson & Sam Cassell led Milwaukee Bucks.

When we traded for Jamison, I said the move screamed of a short term fix and that's we'd never be better than mediocre.

Now this. This is probably his worst trade to date. At least Jamison could put up empty numbers every night and even made an all-star game or two. With Miller & Foye, we get two reserve quality players as one year rentals. For the **** 5th pick in the draft! The same 5th pick that teams were calling left and right for. I'd rather having **** James Harden than this bull.

Man **** this ****!


Yeah, I think the trade kinda sucks too. Dat, maybe you should add "Fire Grunfeld: Mr. I hate drafting in the top 5" to your To Do List.
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Re: Wiz trade 5th pick to Minnesota 

Post#230 » by Benjammin » Wed Jun 24, 2009 4:00 am

Again, if another move is coming that makes this one look good, my tone will change. But on the face of it, this feels like so many Bullets moves of the past: Gus Williams, Dan Roundfield, Jay Vincent, Kevin Duckworth, Ike Austin, Mitch Richmond and so many other band-aid moves to stay "competitive" with veterans. At least get the 18th pick out of this deal or dump Stevenson instead of Songaila. I'm sorry, this is simply not good value, even for a poor draft, unless Foye flat out blows up.
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Re: Wiz trade 5th pick to Minnesota 

Post#231 » by Tiny Too » Wed Jun 24, 2009 4:06 am

This trade has all of the foot prints of Abe Pollin. Don't think for a minute that EG wasn't instructed to try to get get under the cap. No way Abe pays the luxury tax for Amare/Bosh. Consequently, we are reduced to Foye and Miller. Even if EG isn't done dealing, the frugal nature of Abe is a cloud that will always dominate the structure of the roster.

I agree with everyone else that we must package more deadwood (DS, MJ, JC), with other current "assets" for front court talent at the 4 position. If possible, I would move Jamison over Butler.

Defensively, I would be very happy to see two of the three bigs, BH/AB/JMcG, on the court at all times regardless of whether Flip has us playing zone or man. That could help mitigate our weaknesses stopping dribble penetration and threes (the other three defenders won't have to pack the paint).

We are still a work in progress. Sort of reminds me of the '68-69 Bullets of Monroe, Unseld, and Gus Johnson...could score every night and were terrifically exciting but no D on the whole team except for Gus and Fred Carter. Those Bullets won their division, but were swept in the first round by the Knicks (Gus was hurt.).
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Re: Wiz trade 5th pick to Minnesota 

Post#232 » by dobrojim » Wed Jun 24, 2009 4:09 am

mhd wrote:I think Stevenson is gone IMO. He and James will be traded. FLip was gushing about N1 and I see him as the backup 2g.

ESPN said the deal could expand to include a 3rd team.


+1

I think now is a bad time to unload N1. We'd be selling low.

I hope there is something else in the works that would unload
the players you named above. That would make a lot more sense.
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Re: Wiz trade 5th pick to Minnesota 

Post#233 » by W. Unseld » Wed Jun 24, 2009 4:10 am

Forgive me if it's already been said but Foye was the 5th pick in his draft 2 years ago and Miller was the 7th over all pick in 2000. We all agreed we needed shooting and both of these guys fit this bill. Plus we got rid of some bad contracts and didn't have to take any bad contracts in return. I hope we're not done but even if we are I like this better than taking whichever guy that would take at least 3 years to develop with the 5th pick.

Every year we all get all geeked up for the draft but outside of the rare LBJ/Melo/Wade draft most guys take at least 3 years to really contribute. I like it, we opened up a roster spot, became better shooters and dumped some bad salary in a weak draft.
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Re: Wiz trade 5th pick to Minnesota 

Post#234 » by GopherIt! » Wed Jun 24, 2009 4:12 am

I don't think Harden will be there at pick 5. Oklahoma is probably taking him at pick 3.

Yeah, the two roster spots hurts for us (MN). Kahn now has 19 players/picks to sort through.
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Re: Wiz trade 5th pick to Minnesota 

Post#235 » by Chocolate City Jordanaire » Wed Jun 24, 2009 4:14 am

Dat2U wrote:
Optms wrote:
yungal07 wrote:
The amount of whining is ridiculous. There was only so much the guy could do with a #5 pick in a weak draft combined with a bunch of unwanted junk.


I think what most of you here are forgetting is that he just evaporated 3 bad contracts out of Washington's hands. Whether Washington will keep Miller or Foye after next season is a much better problem to have then the one we had before. That in itself is positive. Add to it that I really believe Washington is in a great position to potentially make another major deal. Preferably to help the back court which now is pretty thin. I rate the deal as an A-

Pretty great if you ask me.


Sorry, I'm about to go CCJ on everyone. Either this trade has got me real crabby or I've always been naturally crabby.

A minor point to correct with the posts above. Expiring contracts aren't "unwanted junk" or "bad contracts". They can actually prove to be very valuable in helping a team make a lopsided trade talent wise b/c another team wishes to dump long term salary.

Etan's expiring contract WAS an asset. Pech's expiring deal was a minor asset. DSong was the lone bad contract and even he had only two years left on his deal at $8 mil or so.

For example lets look at a franchise that seems to do things the right way as opposed to us.

The San Antonio Spurs on the same day acquired a solid, near all-star impact player in Richard Jefferson for nothing more tha expiring contracts. They gave up Bruce Bowen (washed up), Kurt Thomas (nearly washed up) and Fabricio Oberto (scrub). That deal was not made for talent, it was made by Milwaukee to get out of RJ's deal.

On the hand, you have the delusional Wizards front office, apparently believing all they need is depth, willingly give up a top #5 choice (valuable enough that more than 10 teams called the Wizards inquiring about the pick!) AND two expirings for Mike Miller & Randy Foye. Two decent role players that may be both suited as 6th men as opposed to starters. No one can make a legitimate claim that either is anything more than exceedingly average.

So lets look at this again. San Antonio, a team having a big three of their own that's won championship but not happy after a first round exit, acquire a 1st line player for nothing. The Wizards on the other hand, seemingly content with their big three that's won nada, sacrifice alot more to add two lesser players.

That's the difference b/w a championship caliber franchise and a organization that lives and breathes in mediocrity.


Well done, Dat. :bowdown:

Ernie doesn't value defense. He didn't go and get somebody like Battier. Heck, even a Sefolosha or Weaver would have shown he's thinking out of the box.

Ernie doesn't value muscle and points in the paint. Landry or even Craig Smith or a Brandon Bass would show he understands that's good off the bench.

Ernie clearly doesn't care that his last 5th pick is now an all star and that Harden, Evans, or Curry could each be better than Devin Harris within 2-3 years.

What Ernie did was get the pick off the books and Darius' contract. I like making some minutes for Blatche and MGee but Jamison's the guy getting the minutes at PF; not Darius.

EG's motivation appears to be offenisve impovement and cap flexibility when Miller comes off the books. I don't know that Foye's an answer to the backcourt problems or that Miller is either, but they're moderate upgrades.

Dat's criticism is the most valid: Etan's expiring deal was valuable and to a lesser extent so was the contract of Pecherov. I think the Wizard might have been better off drafting at 5 and waiting to package players later.

The only thing that would change my initial feelings would be if there's another deal in the works in the next 24 hours.
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Re: Wiz trade 5th pick to Minnesota 

Post#236 » by Wizards2Lottery » Wed Jun 24, 2009 4:14 am

I don't know about you guys but I'm loving the thought of knowing that we have quality NBA players coming in to sub our starters.

McGee coming in to replace Haywood? Blatche for Jamison?

I miss the days of Ruffin, Booth and ET.
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Re: Wiz trade 5th pick to Minnesota 

Post#237 » by doclinkin » Wed Jun 24, 2009 4:14 am

W. Unseld wrote:Forgive me if it's already been said but Foye was the 5th pick in his draft 2 years ago and Miller was the 7th over all pick in 2000.



Vice versa.
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Re: Wiz trade 5th pick to Minnesota 

Post#238 » by dobrojim » Wed Jun 24, 2009 4:18 am

Bickerstaff wrote:
fishercob wrote:Another point. The Deshawn hate is overboard. I mean, I get that his antics are embarrassing, but his year last year needs to be completely written off given the injury he played with. He can help this team plenty in his proper role as a 15-20 MPG defender (even if he's starting to set a tone).

He's a totally decent 8th or 9th man.


I agree, and I wouldn't be opposed to seeing him stay and Nick traded since Deshawn's trade value is nil at this point.


You could end up being right but I have this lingering suspicion that
N1 turns out to be way better than the Trent Tucker prediction.
And if that does turn out to be right, we'll know it next year.

DeShawn is very replaceable and I just don't like the unreliability
of his shot, doesn't hit open shots well and doesn't finish at the rim
well, and doesn't shoot FTs well. And his D is somewhat overrated.
JMO. Let's keep N1 another year and see what happens.
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Re: Wiz trade 5th pick to Minnesota 

Post#239 » by Chocolate City Jordanaire » Wed Jun 24, 2009 4:25 am

Benjammin wrote:
Dat2U wrote:
Optms wrote:
I think what most of you here are forgetting is that he just evaporated 3 bad contracts out of Washington's hands. Whether Washington will keep Miller or Foye after next season is a much better problem to have then the one we had before. That in itself is positive. Add to it that I really believe Washington is in a great position to potentially make another major deal. Preferably to help the back court which now is pretty thin. I rate the deal as an A-

Pretty great if you ask me.


Sorry, I'm about to go CCJ on everyone. Either this trade has got me real crabby or I've always been naturally crabby.

A minor point to correct with the posts above. Expiring contracts aren't "unwanted junk" or "bad contracts". They can actually prove to be very valuable in helping a team make a lopsided trade talent wise b/c another team wishes to dump long term salary.

Etan's expiring contract WAS an asset. Pech's expiring deal was a minor asset. DSong was the lone bad contract and even he had only two years left on his deal at $8 mil or so.

For example lets look at a franchise that seems to do things the right way as opposed to us.

The San Antonio Spurs on the same day acquired a solid, near all-star impact player in Richard Jefferson for nothing more tha expiring contracts. They gave up Bruce Bowen (washed up), Kurt Thomas (nearly washed up) and Fabricio Oberto (scrub). That deal was not made for talent, it was made by Milwaukee to get out of RJ's deal.

On the hand, you have the delusional Wizards front office, apparently believing all they need is depth, willingly give up a top #5 choice (valuable enough that more than 10 teams called the Wizards inquiring about the pick!) AND two expirings for Mike Miller & Randy Foye. Two decent role players that may be both suited as 6th men as opposed to starters. No one can make a legitimate claim that either is anything more than exceedingly average.

So lets look at this again. San Antonio, a team having a big three of their own that's won championship but not happy after a first round exit, acquire a 1st line player for nothing. The Wizards on the other hand, seemingly content with their big three that's won nada, sacrifice alot more to add two lesser players.

That's the difference b/w a championship caliber franchise and a organization that lives and breathes in mediocrity.


Preach it brother! When you look at the two deals, you can't help but be impressed with what the Spurs did and completely underwhelmed with what the Wiz did. The Spurs got a better player without trading a top 5 pick in the deal. Now I will withhold judgment on the Wiz deal until I see if there any other moves to follow it up, but by itself I would give the move a C- and I'm being kind.

Ben, a C- is right where my 4 out 10 lines up.

Not that impressed: Nate, barelyawake, Dat2u, me, you .... with doc riding the fence, neutral.

I'm thinking if Miller and Foye have career years under Flip, great, but I see this being a damned good deal for the Timberwolves. They took Foye for Roy, but turned it around by getting the #5 for Foye. You just KNOW the Wizards closed-minded thinking will end up being near-sighted. Evans, Harden, or Curry--one of them will be a stud.

That or they move up and get Rubio who will be way way better than I think right now.
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Re: Wiz trade 5th pick to Minnesota 

Post#240 » by 80sballboy » Wed Jun 24, 2009 4:27 am

http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/insider/ ... ade-090623

If Hollinger likes the deal, I might have to change my tune and now hate it. :D

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