Wiz trade 5th pick to Minnesota

[Optms]

The trade is official http://voices.washingtonpost.com/wizard ... rdsinsider No changes - to my surprise. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think that means Foye can't be dealt for another 2 months - so that would be till August 24th - still well before the season. No offense to the guy - He's a capable player. I just don't see him being a fit here. I see him as a tradable asset.

I actually don't want to see Foye traded. I know highlight videos don't tell you the entire truth but:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=79PFn6tnTQk

You can't tell me that this kid doesn't have potential to be a very good player. He's quick, has a nice looking jumpshot, good handles, and can finish in traffic.

We have Sam Cassell here as an assistant. Well, here's his first big project. I think he can really help this kid turn into something special.

I don't want to see him get traded either. I think he can blossom as an amazing role player with Washington. Does anyone else see an Arenas type of game with Foye? Just wondering if I'm the only one here who's made that connection. But yes, he definitely was the biggest piece in this trade for Washington in my opinion. I like Miller too, but I doubt he can be effective playing with cut minutes with the way the team looks as of now. I think they're going to have to make a trade to get back some help up front and thin up this log jam of perimeter players.

I've read through all the opinions on this board as well as the expert opinions in the press with the hope someone could persuade me to be excited about this deal. Unfortunately, I just can't and I think I figured out why.

Its not that the trade is all that horrible...its not. I think it is hard to argue that we won't be better. However, to me, this deal just confirms that Wizards management actually believes the Wizards can be a contender by surrounding the Big Three with a better supporting cast. I just have never bought into that idea. In order for the Wizards to become a contender, they need to substitute one of the Big Three with someone who is actually "big" and can be a presence on both sides of the court. I thought this draft was the perfect opportunity to package the pick with either Butler or Jamison (preferably Jamison) and maybe an expiring for a quality Big that we have desperately needed over the last several years. However, it doesn't even appear that management even entertained this idea, stating that the Big Three were essentially untouchable. To me, the Wizards management is either disillusioned to think that we can contend with the Big Three/supporting cast or that they are just happy to be a playoff team that plays an exciting brand of basketball. In either case, its not a good thing.

Unlike others, I also don't think there is a chance in hell the Wizards will prove me wrong and move one of the Big Three now. If they couldn't/wouldn't do a deal with the #5 pick and whatever we had as an enticement, they certainly aren't going to get it done with either Miller or Foye instead of the 5th pick.

So, I guess there is reason for happiness if you were just looking for the Wizards to improve and possibly get out of the first round of the playoffs. I think they have made a move to do that. However, if you were hoping for a move that would make us a contender in the near future, I think you will be somewhat disappointed like me.

No. They aren't going to win the championship with this line up as is. But first round exit? you must be delusional. I think you're underestimating this teams capability with the moves they've made. If healthy, and depending how much of the old Arenas you'll see next season, with these new coaches; this team is extremely dangerous. It isn't crazy to think that this team can make it to the Eastern Conference Finals.

[Dat2U]

I've read through all the opinions on this board as well as the expert opinions in the press with the hope someone could persuade me to be excited about this deal. Unfortunately, I just can't and I think I figured out why.

Its not that the trade is all that horrible...its not. I think it is hard to argue that we won't be better. However, to me, this deal just confirms that Wizards management actually believes the Wizards can be a contender by surrounding the Big Three with a better supporting cast. I just have never bought into that idea. In order for the Wizards to become a contender, they need to substitute one of the Big Three with someone who is actually "big" and can be a presence on both sides of the court. I thought this draft was the perfect opportunity to package the pick with either Butler or Jamison (preferably Jamison) and maybe an expiring for a quality Big that we have desperately needed over the last several years. However, it doesn't even appear that management even entertained this idea, stating that the Big Three were essentially untouchable. To me, the Wizards management is either disillusioned to think that we can contend with the Big Three/supporting cast or that they are just happy to be a playoff team that plays an exciting brand of basketball. In either case, its not a good thing.
Unlike others, I also don't think there is a chance in hell the Wizards will prove me wrong and move one of the Big Three now. If they couldn't/wouldn't do a deal with the #5 pick and whatever we had as an enticement, they certainly aren't going to get it done with either Miller or Foye instead of the 5th pick.

So, I guess there is reason for happiness if you were just looking for the Wizards to improve and possibly get out of the first round of the playoffs. I think they have made a move to do that. However, if you were hoping for a move that would make us a contender in the near future, I think you will be somewhat disappointed like me.

Bro, this is exactly how I feel. You just said it in a more congenial way than I would of. Great post.

[DCZards]

For me, it's not about - Is he a good player; It's about - how does he fit with the rest of the team - especially Arenas. And again, I don't see how he fits. Then again, I don't think Young is a particularly good fit, either - but Young has such impressive physical abilities that I'd rather him get minutes over Foye.

I won't argue that Young has the more impressive physical abilities compared to Foye. But that's about his only edge on Randy. When it comes to pretty much every other important aspect of playing winning basketball, including mental and physical toughness, defense, ballhandling and passion for the game, I'm giving the edge to Foye.

[Dat2U]

No. They aren't going to win the championship with this line up as is. But first round exit? you must be delusional. I think you're underestimating this teams capability with the moves they've made. If healthy, and depending how much of the old Arenas you'll see next season, with these new coaches; this team is extremely dangerous. It isn't crazy to think that this team can make it to the Eastern Conference Finals.

It's a stretch IMO. Mainly b/c of defense. Not only did the Wizards fail to address defense they ignored it all together. In fact they made it worse by adding two guys who don't defend. We also lose our 2nd best defender in McGuire by basically turning him into a 3rd string player who will be glued to the bench.

The Orlando comparisons just don't cut the mustard. They were #1 of all the NBA in defensive efficiency. We were 29th last year. Even with a healthy Haywood we were typically in the high 20s in the past.

Jamison, Butler, Miller... those are three guys that aren't only not interested in playing D, but don't have the physical charateristics to matchup on D.

[dandridge 10]

The trade is official http://voices.washingtonpost.com/wizard ... rdsinsider No changes - to my surprise. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think that means Foye can't be dealt for another 2 months - so that would be till August 24th - still well before the season. No offense to the guy - He's a capable player. I just don't see him being a fit here. I see him as a tradable asset.

I actually don't want to see Foye traded. I know highlight videos don't tell you the entire truth but:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=79PFn6tnTQk

You can't tell me that this kid doesn't have potential to be a very good player. He's quick, has a nice looking jumpshot, good handles, and can finish in traffic.

We have Sam Cassell here as an assistant. Well, here's his first big project. I think he can really help this kid turn into something special.

I don't want to see him get traded either. I think he can blossom as an amazing role player with Washington. Does anyone else see an Arenas type of game with Foye? Just wondering if I'm the only one here who's made that connection. But yes, he definitely was the biggest piece in this trade for Washington in my opinion. I like Miller too, but I doubt he can be effective playing with cut minutes with the way the team looks as of now. I think they're going to have to make a trade to get back some help up front and thin up this log jam of perimeter players.

I've read through all the opinions on this board as well as the expert opinions in the press with the hope someone could persuade me to be excited about this deal. Unfortunately, I just can't and I think I figured out why.

Its not that the trade is all that horrible...its not. I think it is hard to argue that we won't be better. However, to me, this deal just confirms that Wizards management actually believes the Wizards can be a contender by surrounding the Big Three with a better supporting cast. I just have never bought into that idea. In order for the Wizards to become a contender, they need to substitute one of the Big Three with someone who is actually "big" and can be a presence on both sides of the court. I thought this draft was the perfect opportunity to package the pick with either Butler or Jamison (preferably Jamison) and maybe an expiring for a quality Big that we have desperately needed over the last several years. However, it doesn't even appear that management even entertained this idea, stating that the Big Three were essentially untouchable. To me, the Wizards management is either disillusioned to think that we can contend with the Big Three/supporting cast or that they are just happy to be a playoff team that plays an exciting brand of basketball. In either case, its not a good thing.

Unlike others, I also don't think there is a chance in hell the Wizards will prove me wrong and move one of the Big Three now. If they couldn't/wouldn't do a deal with the #5 pick and whatever we had as an enticement, they certainly aren't going to get it done with either Miller or Foye instead of the 5th pick.

So, I guess there is reason for happiness if you were just looking for the Wizards to improve and possibly get out of the first round of the playoffs. I think they have made a move to do that. However, if you were hoping for a move that would make us a contender in the near future, I think you will be somewhat disappointed like me.

No. They aren't going to win the championship with this line up as is. But first round exit? you must be delusional. I think you're underestimating this teams capability with the moves they've made. If healthy, and depending how much of the old Arenas you'll see next season, with these new coaches; this team is extremely dangerous. It isn't crazy to think that this team can make it to the Eastern Conference Finals.

I didn't say they would be a first round exit (although I don't think it is a given that they make it to the second round) In any event, you missed my point. My point is that I think that this trade, together with the Wizards taking the position that the Big Three are untouchable, shows that the Wizards management is content to be a perennial playoff team, and not necessarily a contender. I see the Wizards being another Phoenix Suns (without Shaq) that can make some noise in the playoffs because of their offense, but will be unable to compete with the big boys because of their lack of size/defense.

[WizarDynasty]

our real chance of getting to finals rest with how quickly mcGee develops strength to battle in the post for position and be able to get low and knock people off balance fighting for position and get tough. That's the hardcore truth.

[dandridge 10]

No. They aren't going to win the championship with this line up as is. But first round exit? you must be delusional. I think you're underestimating this teams capability with the moves they've made. If healthy, and depending how much of the old Arenas you'll see next season, with these new coaches; this team is extremely dangerous. It isn't crazy to think that this team can make it to the Eastern Conference Finals.

It's a stretch IMO. Mainly b/c of defense. Not only did the Wizards fail to address defense they ignored it all together. In fact they made it worse by adding two guys who don't defend. We also lose our 2nd best defender in McGuire by basically turning him into a 3rd string player who will be glued to the bench.

The Orlando comparisons just don't cut the mustard. They were #1 of all the NBA in defensive efficiency. We were 29th last year. Even with a healthy Haywood we were typically in the high 20s in the past.

Jamison, Butler, Miller... those are three guys that aren't only not interested in playing D, but don't have the physical charateristics to matchup on D.

Thanks Dat, you said it better than me this time.

[doclinkin]

So, I guess there is reason for happiness if you were just looking for the Wizards to improve and possibly get out of the first round of the playoffs. I think they have made a move to do that. However, if you were hoping for a move that would make us a contender in the near future, I think you will be somewhat disappointed like me.

Well let me say this about that. I suspect Flip wants to see who he has on his squad, learn who is a good fit with the personnel before he looks for this or that particular upgrade. Here he lands two guys he knows will fit his system, jumpshooters who protect the ball well, in exchange he gets rid of dead wood and adds roster space. The team is now deep enough that he has a wide palette of player combo options to begin to craft his masterpiece.

We may make a deep run this year, but it could be we don't have the best fits for the team and will look to upgrade midyear. Still I suspect it could be far easier to work a mid-season trade of say Mike Miller's 9 million dollar expiring contract at the deadline than Etan Thomas' 8 million dollar deal. That option is not off the table.

Personally I don't see any great deals right now, nor disgruntled stars who are ready to flip teams. I'm not sure I see any deals that would immediately make us contenders. But if the squad plays well under Flip that drives up the trade value of the guys we've got. And looking at it now you have to say that swapping dead wood and a prospect for productive players is basically a net plus. Useful depth allows for better moves later.

Agreed, it's not a championship move. But could be it still leads to one. 'Better' is still better than worse. No instant fix, but no dismay and despair either. Plus, hey, you know, in the short term it is more fun to watch a winning squad.

[queridiculo]

Go to the Wolves trade-thread and read-up on their opinion of Foye, they are thrilled to be trading Foye & Miller for Curry & Evans/Rubio/Harden.

Everybody gets thrilled about the draft this time of the year. Then reality sets in and the lottery teams are yet again on their way to the lottery, while their saviors are posting awful to decent numbers that don't mean jack.

Before this draft just about anybody would tell you that this a two player draft in a terrible class. All of a sudden between then and a few pre-draft workouts this draft is littered with can't miss prospects.

Please.

Outside of Griffin who out of this draft group could have realistically stepped in given this team some of the things it's lacking? I can't think of a single one.

Our roster has enough prospects as is, and 3-4 years down the line simply isn't anything we should concern ourselves with.

EG addressed two key issues with the pick. He added quality depth, and he managed to dump Songailas contract.

Not the sexiest move, but I'll take it.

[Wes Funseld]

The trade is official http://voices.washingtonpost.com/wizard ... rdsinsider No changes - to my surprise. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think that means Foye can't be dealt for another 2 months - so that would be till August 24th - still well before the season. No offense to the guy - He's a capable player. I just don't see him being a fit here. I see him as a tradable asset.

I actually don't want to see Foye traded. I know highlight videos don't tell you the entire truth but:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=79PFn6tnTQk

You can't tell me that this kid doesn't have potential to be a very good player. He's quick, has a nice looking jumpshot, good handles, and can finish in traffic.

We have Sam Cassell here as an assistant. Well, here's his first big project. I think he can really help this kid turn into something special.

Go to the Wolves trade-thread and read-up on their opinion of Foye, they are thrilled to be trading Foye & Miller for Curry & Evans/Rubio/Harden.

Some of the thrill could be about blowing up the roster with an infustion of young talent to wash the post-KG, post-Kevin McHale malaise from their mouths more than the particular personnel involved. Their board is also ripe with Foye hate that stems more from the Roy draft night debacle than his particular skill set. It's got to be psychologically gratifying for them to make a clean break with the McHale era in such a flashy manner.

Put me in the fan column for this trade. Put me in the "EG will make our frontcourt depth right before training camp" column as well. I'm liking the pieces Big Ern is assembling. It's like massing a horde in Kamchatka.

[Tekkenlaw]

Foye is going to be great for you guys, there might not be a better situation in the league for him to end up in with Arenas to mentor him and Flip Saunders as his coach. If he is going to have a breakout year, it's coming this season or not at all. I'm a big fan of him. And Miller is great too, absolutely ideal next to Foye and Arenas. Anyways, good trade all around, I was a little disappointed that the Wolves couldn't land Crittenon or Nick Young, but if Harden is there at 5 then I love this for the Wolves.

[LyricalRico]

The Orlando comparisons just don't cut the mustard. They were #1 of all the NBA in defensive efficiency. We were 29th last year. Even with a healthy Haywood we were typically in the high 20s in the past.

Jamison, Butler, Miller... those are three guys that aren't only not interested in playing D, but don't have the physical charateristics to matchup on D.

Have you stopped to consider why Orlando was better on defense? I don't ever remember anybody saying that Rashard Lewis (undersized at PF) or Rafer Alson or Hedo Turkgolu are lockdown defenders. Heck, Hedo didn't even jump half the time to contest shots in playoff games. What about JJ Redick or even the tiny Jameer Nelson? I don't see any DPOY candidates so far. Do you? Yes, they have Dwight Howard but Haywood, although far behind in scoring/rebounding, is comparable defensively. So what is it? They have something that the Wiz haven't had until now - an NBA quality head coach.

I think people are grossly underestimating what Flip can do to make this a better defensive team. Any team would be in the high-20's defensively if they used EJ's "protect the paint" scheme (even Orlando). But with a healthy Haywood and a fundamentally sound defensive strategy there's no reason not to think that this team can be in the mid-teens. We know Gil has the physical tools. We've seen Butler be average when he doesn't have to spend all his energy on scoring. We've even seen Jamison be passable when Haywood is back there telling him where to go. We've got two shot blockers coming off the bench and we still have Stevenson who can at least pester big time scorers. Again, why can't this team be at least average defensively?

Flip took teams in Minnesota that were essentially Kevin Garnett and a bunch of guys from the YMCA and made them top 10 defensive teams. You cannot tell me that guys like Gary Trent and Fred Hoiberg and Troy Hudson and Wally and Kandi-man (and even Cassell/Spree by the time they got there) were anywhere near good defensive players. But Flip had one good defensive big man and had everybody else playing a fundamentally sound scheme. Voila! They were always in or near the top 10. Why can't the same happen in DC?

It can and I believe it will. And I thought that even before the trade. But with this team now having the ability to space the floor and also score while the Big Three rest, having an average defense would easily put them over 50 wins and into the top 4 in the East. And we've seen how spreading the floor with shooters causes problems for the other contenders in the East in the playoffs. I really like this team's chances and a big reason is that I trust Flip to work his magic.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

For me, it's not about - Is he a good player; It's about - how does he fit with the rest of the team - especially Arenas. And again, I don't see how he fits. Then again, I don't think Young is a particularly good fit, either - but Young has such impressive physical abilities that I'd rather him get minutes over Foye.

I won't argue that Young has the more impressive physical abilities compared to Foye. But that's about his only edge on Randy. When it comes to pretty much every other important aspect of playing winning basketball, including mental and physical toughness, defense, ballhandling and passion for the game, I'm giving the edge to Foye.

Nick's like a sixteen-year old driving a Ferrari or a Lamborghini. Not fully equipped to handle the package. Great tools but the operator leaves a lot to be desired. Like a sixteen year old would drive fast, Nick looks to score. No depth to his game beyond that.

I'll still give Nick the benefit of further maturation and a much better coaching regime, including not just Flip but Sam.

I want DeShawn to go and to see Nick with Foye, a guy who's a good complement to Nick. Foye IMO is a sharp, assertive, guy and an intense fellow. Nick can learn something from him. OTOH, Nick's got the tools that are the reason Foye's not Brandon Roy.

I like the pairing of Nick's physical skills with Foye's intense assertiveness.

[WizarDynasty]

No Haywood is a horrible defensive rebounder. Dwight is an even better defensive rebounder that Ben Wallace in his prime. Dwight Howard is an A+, Brendah Haywood is a C-.
Dwight is first team all-nba defense. The wizard's don't have a player that has ever even made all-nba second team. Could Javale make it if he significantly improves his agility and strength. But only if he is dedicated and that won't be for at least two years cuz the guy is build like a teenager.
So until we get at least one player on the squad that's all-nba defensive, its going to be tough. I think foye has some serious perimeter defensive ability when it comes to denying dribble penetration but he has a horrible standing reach of 8'1. Time will tell if he can lockdown point guards. Other than that no one else on the team seems to have all-nba second team defensive potential.
So all bets are that McGee magically gets stronger, quicker, tougher, and has the lower body strength to push other bigs out of position. Highly unlikely. I think the plan is to trade Jamison and Butler, resign foye and miller longterm, and get us an all-nba second team defense p/f with Blatche backing him up as the super the super improved Jamison once Jamison is traded in about a year. Young and Blatche should be a stars in about year under Cassell and Saunders. blatche is an above average defender but just doesn't have a high motor.

[fishercob]

I don't buy the "content with mediocrity" theory, never have, and take offense to it as a fan. You think Pollin, Grunfeld, Tommt Shepherd et al got to where the are being content with mediocrity? These guys are fiercely competitive alpha males. You may able as a sick, frail old man and Ernie as a goofy looking dweeb with a weird voice, but you'd be missing the point. These guys want to win the brass ring and I have no doubt that it keeps them up at night. They're not in this to make a buck. Sports is about ego and winning -- period.

Are they delusional about how good they are? Maybe. But we have no way of really knowing since they haven't been healthy (or deep) enough to see everyone together, and they had a coach who played the wrong guys and couldn't coach D. Now they have a coach regarded as one of the best who consistently churns out good defensive teams.

So Miller and Foye aren't "defensive players" by some of your measure. Well the NBA -- shidt even high school basketball -- is not just about shutting down your man. It's not a series of five one on one matchups. Defense is a team endeavor.

To recap, our D will improve because

a) better offense = more set/readt defense
b) bigger personnel = more forced misses
c) better rebounding = fewer second chance attempts.
d) better coaching = huge

No, we're not going to be the Celtics of two years ago. We don't have that personnel -- and chasing it would have been counterproductive. We're going to be good. The sooner you accept that, the happier you'll be .

[LyricalRico]

ISo Miller and Foye aren't "defensive players" by some of your measure. Well the NBA -- shidt even high school basketball -- is not just about shutting down your man. It's not a series of five one on one matchups. Defense is a team endeavor.

To recap, our D will improve because

a) better offense = more set/readt defense
b) bigger personnel = more forced misses
c) better rebounding = fewer second chance attempts.
d) better coaching = huge

No, we're not going to be the Celtics of two years ago. We don't have that personnel -- and chasing it would have been counterproductive. We're going to be good. The sooner you accept that, the happier you'll be .

[JWizmentality]

Now that all of you have had time to sleep on it. Don't you feel much better? Wasn't that a great trade? If you still feel like crap, cheer up. The beauty threads start after the draft.

[GopherIt!]

Wolves fan here, I think this makes your team very tough to match up with.

You guys trot out Gil-Miller-Butler-Jamison and then have Foye and Young off the bench???
Plus whatever contributions your young bigs bring. I'm not sure how teams are going to be able to stop you guys next season. If everyone stays healthy, your going to be able to wear a lot of teams out. With Flip running the show, I think the Wiz should be a lot of fun to watch.


Also, I don't think Harden would have been there for you at 5. It would have been Evans or Curry.
(I still think the Wolves are trying to trade with Memphis so they can grab Harden as opposed to Rubio or Thabeet.)

[miller31time]

I don't buy the "content with mediocrity" theory, never have, and take offense to it as a fan. You think Pollin, Grunfeld, Tommt Shepherd et al got to where the are being content with mediocrity? These guys are fiercely competitive alpha males. You may able as a sick, frail old man and Ernie as a goofy looking dweeb with a weird voice, but you'd be missing the point. These guys want to win the brass ring and I have no doubt that it keeps them up at night. They're not in this to make a buck. Sports is about ego and winning -- period.

Fish, I agree with the majority of your post but I do disagree with this particular point. Sports (basketball, baseball, football, hockey, etc) are about winning and ego. The NBA, MLB, NFL, NHL, etc - they're all about the almighty dollar. Now, it's fairly obvious that winning yields better profits and sales, so our two opinions aren't mutually exclusive but it's definitely important to differentiate sports and sports organizations, IMO. If an owner can make a good profit without having to break the bank and build a title team, they'll most likely take that route.

[fishercob]

I don't buy the "content with mediocrity" theory, never have, and take offense to it as a fan. You think Pollin, Grunfeld, Tommt Shepherd et al got to where the are being content with mediocrity? These guys are fiercely competitive alpha males. You may able as a sick, frail old man and Ernie as a goofy looking dweeb with a weird voice, but you'd be missing the point. These guys want to win the brass ring and I have no doubt that it keeps them up at night. They're not in this to make a buck. Sports is about ego and winning -- period.

Fish, I agree with the majority of your post but I do disagree with this particular point. Sports (basketball, baseball, football, hockey, etc) are about winning and ego. The NBA, MLB, NFL, NHL, etc - they're all about the almighty dollar. Now, it's fairly obvious that winning yields better profits and sales, so our two opinions aren't mutually exclusive but it's definitely important to differentiate sports and sports organizations, IMO. If an owner can make a good profit without having to break the bank and build a title team, they'll most likely take that route.

Right, Ernie's thinking about turning a profit.

And Abe -- you think NOW he's worried about being prfoitable.

Hooey.