What do we do now?

[Rich Rane]

Thorn and Ratner could still cut him since he's only partial guaranteed (shamsports).

[deviljets7]

Thorn and Ratner could still cut him since he's only partial guaranteed (shamsports).

This may be incorrect, but based on the info I've been able to find, Rafer's contract became fully guaranteed since he played 70+ games last season.

[Rich Rane]

Thorn and Ratner could still cut him since he's only partial guaranteed (shamsports).

This may be incorrect, but based on the info I've been able to find, Rafer's contract became fully guaranteed since he played 70+ games last season.

Thanks deviljets. I'll take your word for it.

[SteveNets15]

Nets are making the playoffs 09/10 season.I like this team as it is.NOOOO!!!!!!to injury prone Boozer whose gonna want waaaaaaaay to much money.WE should send an offer sheet for Milsap and when that doesn't work try trading for Landry.I can't wait for this season to start so i can watch this young team grow.Don't compare this team to that mess in Sacramento we have a good balance of players at every position simliar to Portland if your gonna compare.

Ha!!

We'll be lucky to win 20 games next season.

Hey Jeffery i was just wondering what 8 teams in the East do you think will make the playoffs ahead of us in 09/10.I don't reeeeeeeallly think will make the playoffs only because Lfranko is our coach but i still have hope.

[crazykidd2k6]

Why is there so much talk about salary dump don't you guys understand by 2010 we have about 27 million cap space with 6 players in the roster. We have enough cap space for 2010 so we shouldn't dump any players anymore. Also we have all of the role players we need. What we need to do is to ready all of the players we would use in the 2010-11 season. So once we pick up a high calibur player next year we can contend. So basically we need to play all of the Young Gunz. We should set this line up next year:

Harris/Dooling/Alston
Lee/CDR/Hassell
T-Will/Hayes/Simmons
Yi/Battie/Najera
Lopez/SWAT/Boone

Bench
6th CDR
7th Dooling
8th SWAT
9th Hayes
10th Alston
11th Battie
12th Boone

Reserve:
Najera
Simmons
Hassell

[aussienet]

Guy's when the trade of VC and anderson went down i was mighty pi$$ed. Now that I have calmed down and looked at the big picture, whilst not rosey I am very happy. When you have a core group of Devin,Lopez, Lee plus CDR AND a payroll of just under 25 MILLION for next year you can't be anything but happy. Yeah we might suck worse than the mavs of the 90's but it's the big picture that has me sold!

Cheers!

[Hansel]

Just sit tight for the most part. I like where the team is. Harris/Lopez/TWill/Lee is a really nice core of youth. Harris/Lopez with star potential, Lee/TWill the perfect role players. Two picks in next year's draft + big cap in 2010.

It's not going to be the worst team in the league either. As of now, the real weak spot is at the 4. Don't do anything stupid like go burn assets/money for Boozer, but if there is a trade to add another body that is better than Boone then do it. Athletic team, maybe can run, good defense on the perimeter, a scoring threat down low. Not going to make the playoffs but not totally hopeless either. It'd also be pretty sick if Sean Williams could turn into something worth using.

[SpeedyG]

This team is gonna be one of the worst if not the worst team in the league next year. While I don't mind Rebuilding and starting from scratch I still feel this team has too many holes to stop making moves.

Our PF situation is still mess even moreso now that we traded Ryan Anderson.

True, and we probably won't know until next year. But we only had one pick in the draft. It's unrealistic to expect all of our holes plugged with just one pick. I like Anderson. I think he'll be a great backup SF/PF in the league, but I don't think he's our long-term PF solution. As of right now, that is still Yi and Sean territory, if either player puts it together.

We still haven't picked up a PG to play behind Dooling(who I suspect is gonna get major minutes at the 2 next year).

Yeah, we don't know what will happen, and we know Skip's faults. But the guy played well enough against Cleveland and LA as a starting guard (even though his minutes were cut with Jameer's return). What? Is he good enough to play heavy minutes in a playoff run but not enough to be our third PG?

What should we do? Stick to the team we have now and make minor moves in hopes of picking someone up in 2010, or should we try to trade one of the many expiring contracts we have to pick up a player that can help us now.

This should be easy. Lotto balls. This team, while it will be younger and maybe a better team, will miss VC. For all his faults, Vince made it easier for everyone. All the pressure will now be on Devin and Brook.

Two minor moves I propose is picking up Farmar for a 2nd rounder(can we use the trade exception that way??, I'm not sure) that way they save up a couple mil and use that to help resign one of their FA's. The other is Marcus Camby for Bobby Simmons and cash consideration/Pick.

For a major move I wouldn't oppose us trading for Elton brand(while I'd undertsand why some of you wouldn't do it) or going after boozer one where or another..

Really no sense in going after Farmar. Had a real down year last year, even playoffs was spotty performance at best. Camby for Simmons I might do....IF STRAIGHT UP. No cash consideration/picks.

Honestly, it's time to let Sean and Yi fight it out. Force them to develop. If neither one steps up this year (or shows signs of growth, leading us to believe they'll make the step the following year), then it's time to cut ties. But we can't give up on Yi or Sean just yet (moreso Yi than Sean)

[vincecarter4pres]

I have read through this whole thread thoroughly and basically everyone seems to be on the same page and have accepted the bleek short term future, but exciting mid to long term, so that's good.

1st I have few thought on what I have read.
Basically I feel like SIC's 1st post in this thread and the Knicks fan that was the last post on the 1st page sum it up pretty well and pretty obviously.

2nd, stevieboy, I love your optimism, but I think the playoffs are quite unlikely to put it nicely.

3rd, I 'm thinking Hansel maybe right, we won't make the playoffs, but we'll still be competitive. I really hope you're wrong, lol. As much as I hate to promote losing in the minds of the young guys because it seems to become contagious and hurt longterm growth, I want this team to only win 20 something games if we don't make the playoffs. I want a top 5 pick in this stellar upcoming draft, not the 9th, 10th or 11th again.
BTW, change your damn avi.
Here:
http://hartford.typepad.com/sports_ucon ... s_logo.gif

4th, say no to Brand. Dude has been nothing but injured, signed to a gargantuate contract and is on the wrong side of 30. I used to love the guy, but he's done. Only team that should be thinking about trading for him is a contender such as the Cavs, Celtics or maybe the Magic if they could trade Jameer and Hedo in a S&T for Brand/Jrue Holiday/Louis Williams or a team like Washington that is in luxury tax hell with an already old and hard to flip lineup that needs a shakeup.

5th, say no to Camby, dude is a cancerous bumb.

6xth, I like the idea of Farmar if he comes cheap, nice piece for the future, maybe as just a 15mpg 3rd stringer spark plug type. I don't think he's good enough to get the kind of role he had been on the Lakers in the past, they just didn't have any other options. But in a more limited role the kid could be nice, or maybe he needs more miutes to get into a rhythn and Dooling is only the short term answer for us anyway, so let him play behind Dooling for now and eventually take over. LAL might actually be illing to dump him for nothing more then a TPE and a 2nd pick as cap relief.

7th, Jeff, you gotta lot of nerve to say our ceiling is 20 wins. It's obviously at least 21.

8th, I am on the fence about Boozer. We cut Rafer(if we can) and Hayes we are under the cap by about 5.2 million. Boozer is likely to only get a 5 year deal for around 60 to 65 million. I am sorry, but say what you want about the guy, but he is a legit 20/10 power forward that can pass the ball, play good man to man defense and is only going to be 28 2 months into the season.

I am not looking at Boozer in a short sighted/short term look. I am looking at it like, if we will have the caproom to sign 2 max guys or 1 max guy and 1 big salary guy, why not make Boozer that big salary guy and go after the max guy like Lebron, Wade or Joe Johnson next year?

We could send Hassell, Boone and a future 1st(heavily protected or the GSW pick) for Boozer.
Utah might be hard pressed to turn that down. They would get immediate raw capspace(well space under the cap to resign their guys and stay under the tax), a 1st round pick, an useful Sloan type expiring in Hassell and a useful bench big man. They aren't going to get much value for Boozer if they S&T him unless they take back big salary, UFA S&T's never bring back a lot, only RFA S&T's do.
This offer is literallu about max value.

Think about it, at least in my opinion Boozer is a much better option then Amar'me, hell just the better player. All you Amar'me fanboys and ZOMG ppg guys can claim different, but it's true and Amar'me is just as injury prone for the most part.
Bosh isn't even a better player, he's just younger with some upside still there. Remember, Bosh is actually starting to have some knee problems already and has made it officially clear he want a 6 year S&T max deal where ever he goes, so if he never gets better and/or becomes truly injury prone then Boozer is much better value

The 2 things I don't like about Boozer are significant though. 1 is he is truly injury prone. Maybe he won't be forever, a lot of guys have historically had injury problems for a 2 to 4 chunk of their career towards the early to middle and then become iron men and fully bounced back to form. Then again, some become injury prone, stay injury prone and their skills diminish and gets cut short.
The other thing is he gives us very legit playoff possibility this year, which although may attract FA's, kills the chance at a 2 lotto picks next draft, including a top 5.

I guess that's "all".

[lurkingobeiscity]

I don't think this roster problem will just go away:

Next year, however, he may not be as understanding.

"Well, I would have a lot of questions, as far as the role goes," said the veteran forward, who was averaging 7.7 points and was 10th in the league in 3-point shooting before Wednesday night's game at Boston. "I'd say, 'I'm not the new guy anymore, so what do you expect me to do? And what would my role be exactly?' And I'd take it from there."

The object of his discontent -- if you can call it that -- is related to minutes (24.6 per game) and shots (6.2 per game). Simmons is certain he can do more.

"Of course. You always think that you can do more," he said. "If you look at the year I won Most Improved (in 2005), I did it all -- I handled the basketball, I did pick-and-rolls, came off pin-downs, I posted up. Not to say this selfishly, but I'd like to get back to that."

http://www.nj.com/nets/index.ssf/2009/04/new_jersey_nets_bobby_simmons_1.html

I like Hayes as a player more than I like Simmons but I also think Hayes role can be eclipsed by the young guys while Simmons is our only big SF, one of our best 3pt shooters, and he can play PF in a small ball lineup (which would help us get our SG/SFs on the court. As good of a value as Hayes is, it might be best to decline his option as Simmons is all but immovable.

Also I think Rafer MUST be moved. He is not going to be happy about going from a finals team to a bottom-feeder. Plus he will be 3rd in line for minutes at the PG...... He was vocal about minutes in the playoffs with Jameer coming back. That is a situation that must be avoided for a young team.

The best trade I could come up with:
Nets trade: Rafer Alston
Hornets trade: Antonio Daniels + 1.35 million

Why for the Nets:
The Nets break even financially while moving a potential chemistry problem for a more fitting 3rd PG.

Why for the Hornets:
The Hornets get a PG that can back up Paul this year and have an impact on the team. Alston ensures that they won't HAVE to play Paul 38.5 mpg this year like they did last year.

On the financial side of things, the Hornets improve as well. They send the Nets cash to pay for the extra 1.35 million the Nets (a very cost conscious team) take on. Even with the cash going to the Nets, this saves the Hornets 1.35 million due to the luxury tax.

I know they just drafted Collison at PG, but I don't think they want to rely on a rookie at the position, especially when they can upgrade while saving money.

Both Alston's and Daniel's contracts are expiring.

[vincecarter4pres]

Assuming Skip's contract is guaranteed(cuase if it ain't, cut him!), Alston and Trenton Hassel for Cuttino Mobley.
They both make sense there as stop gap guys.
The Knix could use a starting point guard and some depth as long as it doesn't effect their cap in 2010. I just don't know they would want to give up Cuttino for this package, his contract is supposed to be something like 80% paid for by insurance, so it's a real solid trade chip as an expiring.
We could send back 3 million in cash and it still doesn't make up the difference and I believe that is the maximum a team can send in any trade.

I don't know if they did the Darko trade cause they wanted to use him for a year, or if they wanted to get Q Rich out of dodge, cause he is reportedly a real lockerroom cancer, but something centered around those two can work as well.

What about the Celts? Rafer for Veal and Tony Allen.

Hassell and Rafer for Dorrell Wright and Mark Blount? That one's for you Prelude.

To Portland for Blake or Outlaw works.

One I would love is Roger Mason and Finley and then immediately buyout FInley, just don't think San An would have any interest.

BTW, I like the New Orleans deal just fine, was just listing other deals that work and make some sense for the team that would be aquiring Rafer.

[S.I.C. GM]

I want to repeat what I said earlier.

I wouldnt get too crazy about adding more people or FA. I DONT WANT FRANK AFTER NEXT YEAR. No Excuses for FRANk.

The other thing. We want to be competitive but we dont want what happened to us to happen again.

No reason to even hope for another record like last year to end up with 10-14 pick in next years draft.

I DONT WANT to pick any where near 10-14 next year.

Another thing. I like this team as is.

Harris - needs to become a better PG and lead this team. Even though I am against this, He will probably lead this team in scoring but I would be happier with 18pts, 8-10 ast, 1-2 steals.

Lee, CDR and TWill - all I am expecting from them is development. I am not expecting these guys to be anywhere near to VC pt production. If they can average 10-15 pts, That works for me.

Lopez - If frank is smart, this summer the offense shifts from Harris dependent to Lopez low post. Not worried about lopez at all.

Yi - the biggest X factor. I dont mind him coming off the bench. But if he shows signs of a vast improvement, he might as well start. Now that VC is gone I do see some improvement. Yi moves from 4 offensive option to possibly 3 or even 2. Yi has shown that when he has to defer to less people his offense picks up.

BENCH - if it is left along, nothing has changed. Yeah we lost Anderson, but he hardly played last year anyway.

THE BIGGEST QUESTION MARK - F'EN FRANK
Frank- Needs to really take a hard look at this team. Kiki and Thorn need to really put pressure on FRANK about his defensive and offensive philosophies. Lopez needs to be the main option. Harris needs to take a back seat and really help make Lopez, Yi, Lee, CDR and Twill better with his PG play. Frank needs to undo what he did last year. More Low Post. More Motion. Bring back some Princeton. Less dribble and drive. FRANK needs to be STOP THE SMALL BALL. Let the guys play their natural positions.

[vincecarter4pres]

I agree with you dude.
We would really be smart to get Alston and Simmons out of here RIGHT NOW though.
Alston is going to want to play on a playoff team and if he is stuck here he is going to expect big minutes, especially because he is from the area.

Him and Simmons and especially Simmons are going to basically demand big minutes and touches.

They are both in the last year of their contracts and need to have big years in order to land those last big contracts. Again, especially for Simmons.
The entire league knows the pros and cons of Alston, they know his age and he doesn't really have to prove much. As long as he stays healthy he is guaranteed at least a 3 year deal for around 10 mill, but putting up big #'s can only help his cause.
Simmons is in a completely different boat. Dude blew up and then got signed to a mind blowing deal given out by a straight sucka GM. Since then he had a serious injury and also just a straight up questionable work ethic and hius game has gone to $#@&. Still, even in this economic climate a sucka is born everyday and if he winds up getting minutes and putting up #'s he can wind up finding himself something close to a 3 or 4 year deal for the MLE.
He knows he will never see money like he is getting again, because after he signed that contract he was probably high fiving everyone he ran into for 3 weeks straight, down to the garbage man, but he is fully aware that this is the difference between him being the 2010 Tim Thomas and him getting a 2 or 3 year vet minimum deal.

They need to send these guys out ASAP for any similarly priced but useless expiring possible and it needs to be done now before problems arise and also so the new guys that come in are quickly trade eligible just in case a "just can't pass" trade comes up where their expirings are needed.
Kiki Vandethorn needs to be calling up for the Kenny Thomas', Jerome James', Mike James', Brian Scalabrine's, Kwame Brown's, etc. of the league.
At least a guy like Kwame would get minutes just by default because of our lack of big men and therefore wouldn't bich and cause lockerroom problems.

[amk482]

Assuming Skip's contract is guaranteed(cuase if it ain't, cut him!), Alston and Trenton Hassel for Cuttino Mobley.
They both make sense there as stop gap guys.
The Knix could use a starting point guard and some depth as long as it doesn't effect their cap in 2010. I just don't know they would want to give up Cuttino for this package, his contract is supposed to be something like 80% paid for by insurance, so it's a real solid trade chip as an expiring.
We could send back 3 million in cash and it still doesn't make up the difference and I believe that is the maximum a team can send in any trade.

I don't know if they did the Darko trade cause they wanted to use him for a year, or if they wanted to get Q Rich out of dodge, cause he is reportedly a real lockerroom cancer, but something centered around those two can work as well.

What about the Celts? Rafer for Veal and Tony Allen.

Hassell and Rafer for Dorrell Wright and Mark Blount? That one's for you Prelude.

To Portland for Blake or Outlaw works.

One I would love is Roger Mason and Finley and then immediately buyout FInley, just don't think San An would have any interest.

BTW, I like the New Orleans deal just fine, was just listing other deals that work and make some sense for the team that would be aquiring Rafer.

I like the offer for Mobley - it would save us approx. $7M plus create a little roster flecibility in that we would only have 14 guys. Im sure ratner would be down with it but as you said, his contract could be more valuable, maybe not, but the knicks really need another PG.

[deviljets7]

I like the Mobley trade considering the amount of money it saves.

This may be wishful thinking, but I wonder if you can convince the right team to take Najera as the filler instead of Hassell.

[vincecarter4pres]

If you're correct about Skip being guaranteed, as much as I still think it may be in the better interest of the team that he is traded, I wonder if Dooling is traded or just cut, or even if we keep him, with the lack of point guards we have and the fact that it's better to play Devin less minutes in general, we could likely get 20 something minutes per game for Alston.
I mean Dooling is coming off surgery and especially at the beginning of the season I could see his minutes being limited and then there is almost the inevitable that Devin and Dooling miss time, maybe I'm overreacing to shipping Alston out so quick. Even if he gets moved, maybe it's better to do it around late December to mid January or even around the deadline.

Lt. Dan is a different story, dude needs to go, early.

[NetsForce]

I don't think Simmons will demand big minutes, dude was pure class last year.

[vincecarter4pres]

I don't think this roster problem will just go away:

Next year, however, he may not be as understanding.

"Well, I would have a lot of questions, as far as the role goes," said the veteran forward, who was averaging 7.7 points and was 10th in the league in 3-point shooting before Wednesday night's game at Boston. "I'd say, 'I'm not the new guy anymore, so what do you expect me to do? And what would my role be exactly?' And I'd take it from there."

The object of his discontent -- if you can call it that -- is related to minutes (24.6 per game) and shots (6.2 per game). Simmons is certain he can do more.

"Of course. You always think that you can do more," he said. "If you look at the year I won Most Improved (in 2005), I did it all -- I handled the basketball, I did pick-and-rolls, came off pin-downs, I posted up. Not to say this selfishly, but I'd like to get back to that."

http://www.nj.com/nets/index.ssf/2009/04/new_jersey_nets_bobby_simmons_1.html

I like Hayes as a player more than I like Simmons but I also think Hayes role can be eclipsed by the young guys while Simmons is our only big SF, one of our best 3pt shooters, and he can play PF in a small ball lineup (which would help us get our SG/SFs on the court. As good of a value as Hayes is, it might be best to decline his option as Simmons is all but immovable.

^
I
I
I
I
See above post.

I don't think Simmons will demand big minutes, dude was pure class last year.

[deviljets7]

If Simmons is unhappy and wants big minutes, I'm sure a buyout can be arranged. His 3-point shooting is worth the potential headaches. Any money saved is a bonus.