Barclays Center/Fear Prokhorov Thread

[deviljets7]

http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2009/06/09/arts/Atlanticeastbig.jpg

Anybody check this one out?
What's with Charlie Villanueva all in the parrot?

The artist has trouble drawing hair?

[enetric]

I will say it again. Sure...Brooklyn by 2010 was the ideal because it let us dream about Lebron and company.

However, even if that planned date has been destroyed by all the idiots looking to block the move, it doesnt mean that in the long run we arent better off as a franchise in a BIG market than a small one. Brooklyn will still hold vastly more appeal to players and their agents for the future growth of this franchise and our ability to compete with an LA, Boston, Miami, Chicaco, NY, etc.
Sure Newark may be better the swamp...but no freakin' way in the long term its better than Brooklyn for the ability of this franchise to become a BIG MARKET team.

Realize long after 2010 is gone...long after Lebron is retired the idea is to build, breakdown and rebuild again and again a quality competitive team. Being in the best possible location goes a long way towards making that dream a much easier reality.

Hey, its not like I am pitching let move to LA and change the team name to something other than Nets.

I just don't see us as a market being competitive to LA, Boston, Miami, etc., simply because we'll being playing second fiddle to the Knicks (even I know one of these years, they'll be out of that mess they have now). They have the historic building that when not filled with the frustrated Knick fans, is being filled with tourists that go sightseeing in Manhattan. We're also downsizing our project so it's not like tourists would head to Brooklyn for a Nets game either.

Newark's been going through a bit of a renaissance lately. I'm not saying it will be a bigger market for us, but at the very least, our players would be able to play in front of basketball fans that can walk to the stadium for a cheap ticket. Most importantly though, above putting ourselves in a bigger market, it's much easier for me to get to a Net game in Newark than in Brooklyn.

I'm also...I'll say content with staying at the Swamp until Brooklyn. I said it before, but with Xanadu opening up next year, it gives people something to do before a Nets game. Hell, it gives anyone a reason to visit East Rutherford.

I understand from a selfish standpoint if it makes your own ability to go to a game easier. I get that for sure. However, let me comment abou Brooklyn as a location. Of course we will be second fiddle to the Nix in terms of popularity. But so what? The Ckips arent awful because they play second fiddle to the Lakers. the suck because they are mismanaged. At the end of the day...we do not have to compete with the Nix directly as the top draw in the area to recruit free agents or to gain an edge when dealing with draft picks looking to have agents force dumb trades. If you are IN a good market you have the edge that the handful of big market teams have over the majority of the league. Look, Mets fans whine like bitches as if they are at some sort of disadvantage to the Yankees who are the more popular team in NY. But the reality? The mets have been one of the top 5 payroll teams in the game for the last 20 straight years. Tops almost every season in the National league. Why? Because they are in a market where they can afford to do so.

One more thing. That comment about tourists? That isnt what sells out arenas nightly. Its companies. And no area has grown in terms of corporate office space in NY more than that near by area of Brooklyn to the site where this is going. It WILL be a train stop for the majority of these peole getting their compay seats to go to a game the way they did before 9/11 when they were working in the city. I predict corporate sales will be through the roof...and even if the nets are still second fiddle to the Nix in terms of overall popularity...the Nets fanbase will grow MASSIVELY from what it is now...and what it would be in Newark. Right now...we are a team like Minnesota in the mids of many. See the issues with Rubio? Recaqll how we lost Kobe on draft night? In Brooklyn..that wont happen. And that is why I am so on board for this.

[Rich Rane]

I understand from a selfish standpoint if it makes your own ability to go to a game easier. I get that for sure. However, let me comment abou Brooklyn as a location. Of course we will be second fiddle to the Nix in terms of popularity. But so what? The Ckips arent awful because they play second fiddle to the Lakers. the suck because they are mismanaged. At the end of the day...we do not have to compete with the Nix directly as the top draw in the area to recruit free agents or to gain an edge when dealing with draft picks looking to have agents force dumb trades. If you are IN a good market you have the edge that the handful of big market teams have over the majority of the league. Look, Mets fans whine like bitches as if they are at some sort of disadvantage to the Yankees who are the more popular team in NY. But the reality? The mets have been one of the top 5 payroll teams in the game for the last 20 straight years. Tops almost every season in the National league. Why? Because they are in a market where they can afford to do so.

One more thing. That comment about tourists? That isnt what sells out arenas nightly. Its companies. And no area has grown in terms of corporate office space in NY more than that near by area of Brooklyn to the site where this is going. It WILL be a train stop for the majority of these peole getting their compay seats to go to a game the way they did before 9/11 when they were working in the city. I predict corporate sales will be through the roof...and even if the nets are still second fiddle to the Nix in terms of overall popularity...the Nets fanbase will grow MASSIVELY from what it is now...and what it would be in Newark. Right now...we are a team like Minnesota in the mids of many. See the issues with Rubio? Recaqll how we lost Kobe on draft night? In Brooklyn..that wont happen. And that is why I am so on board for this.

I've always agreed that a bigger market would help avoid draft issues with Kobe or Rubio. I also agree that being in Brooklyn is the bigger market and while I don't have any problems moving there, I'm not going to fully endorse it either. I think more important than a bigger market, if a team could offer a free agent whatever the amount of money he wants along with a fine team, I think he'd play just about anywhere. Kobe and Rubio, as great players they are or might be, to me are more isolated draft cases. Most guys, especially college draft picks in any sport, would play anywhere they get drafted to.

On the MSG thing, you can't deny that tourists have helped over the last ten years when the many casual Knick fans have become either too frustrated or calling for Layden/Isiah/Walsh's head, but even then they were able to make attendance more than respectable. I agree with you on the corporate sales, but how does that really attract more free agents when they're buying luxury box seats that aren't really altering the court's atmosphere? If they're bringing their children, they'll bring them in there too. The money we'll get from them is great, but it doesn't exactly mean huge spending especially if they are season ticket holders, but we'll be so deep in the red for a good few years in terms of finances with the delays, the actual construction, payroll (even if the team payroll is small right now), marketing, and other spendings. Are we actually going to be like the Mets and gather a playoff contention team that has no problem being over the cap and perhaps pay luxury tax?

Our fanbase will be bigger than what it currently is, simply with the basketball enthusiasts of Brooklyn. However, I would like one year at the Izod and see our attendance change (if it changes) with Xanadu opening up and actual public transportation going to East Rutherford because that's a huge reason why our attendance is incredibly low. Most of the other stadiums could be walked to (Probably including a Brooklyn move), but until I could make some sort of conclusion and even knowing that the Brooklyn move is imminent, I probably won't be fully in favor of a Brooklyn move after a good few years (like 5-7) to see if the team is competing and what the financial statements are like.

[enetric]

I think you are connecting the wrong things from what I am saying.

The corporate sales speak to selling out games and selling the higher priced tickets. Boxes, courtside...etc. There will be more big ticket items to sell...more money for ownership....more to reinvest back in product. Plus...dont forget...the naming rights deals the Nets had landed for the arena...largest in history for an indoor venue. 400 mil is no joke Rich. That right there answers a big fat chunk of your other issues.

Now...the free agent issue. NY marketing dollars will be there for these guys should they come to a Brooklyn Nets team more so than a Newark or Izod team. Thats the way it is. Cross the border...more cash to be had.

All around...Brooklyn does more for the franchise with a new arena all their own...in a booming area with more fans to go around...more interested in buying anything....than the hope than magically afer all these years the state of NJ will magically embrace NBA basketball that much more if there was more to offer in the meadowlands or in Newark. You just cant compare the market. Tell you what. Jets and Giants move back to NY.

And Jersey gets a brand new football franchise in the same area that has hosted two football teams all these years that still call themselves NY. Suddenly the Jersey whatever has the following the Jets or Giants do? BAH!!!! And thats the NFL an they would struggle by comparision.

NY is revenue. If run right....a fortune will be made. And it can only help our franchise be more competive over more seasons for the teams future.

[Rich Rane]

I think you are connecting the wrong things from what I am saying.

The corporate sales speak to selling out games and selling the higher priced tickets. Boxes, courtside...etc. There will be more big ticket items to sell...more money for ownership....more to reinvest back in product. Plus...dont forget...the naming rights deals the Nets had landed for the arena...largest in history for an indoor venue. 400 mil is no joke Rich. That right there answers a big fat chunk of your other issues.

Wasn't the last plan of construction alone going to cost over $700 million? Then the delays didn't help either. I believe that $400 million is over 20 years also.

Now...the free agent issue. NY marketing dollars will be there for these guys should they come to a Brooklyn Nets team more so than a Newark or Izod team. Thats the way it is. Cross the border...more cash to be had.

Agreed. However, should a deal like LeBron's with Nike be suddenly skyrocketed, the NBA will definitely be on them for tampering.

All around...Brooklyn does more for the franchise with a new arena all their own...in a booming area with more fans to go around...more interested in buying anything....than the hope than magically afer all these years the state of NJ will magically embrace NBA basketball that much more if there was more to offer in the meadowlands or in Newark. You just cant compare the market. Tell you what. Jets and Giants move back to NY.

And Jersey gets a brand new football franchise in the same area that has hosted two football teams all these years that still call themselves NY. Suddenly the Jersey whatever has the following the Jets or Giants do? BAH!!!! And thats the NFL an they would struggle by comparision.

I agree with you on the second part, but the Jets and Giants to the Nets are completely different in terms of fanbases. Jets and Giants have fans not only from NJ, but ones that jam any Hudson River crossing every home game and have been doing so for the last 30 years here, both with respectable histories even before they started play at Giants Stadium.

The Nets have a fanbase in an entire state, but are located in the least populated city in the league (under 9000) and isn't necessarily fan accessible (transportation) and fan friendly in terms of its surroundings (there is absolutely nothing to do for a fan waiting before the game or somewhere to go after). I only say I would like to see what the atmosphere would be like with Xanadu is for that last reason alone with Xanadu's Snowdome, 5 stories of shopping, the country's largest movie theater, and Legoland. That's sure to attract several different demographics and gives everyone something to do before and after a game or at the very least, attract more people from other cities in NJ to go to East Rutherford. For a move to Newark, I'm almost certain people who could travel by public transportation from Newark, Jersey City, and Elizabeth would definitely increase attendance sales and establish a meaningful fanbase on television.

NY is revenue. If run right....a fortune will be made. And it can only help our franchise be more competive over more seasons for the teams future.

Agreed. Is Ratner running it correctly though? The guy took the team's guts out when he bought the team some years ago. He's been losing tens of millions of dollars since then with the lawsuits and appeals of those lawsuits thinking a Brooklyn move would be easy. The guy's facing a once a small protest group to a nice chunk of pissed off citizens in the borough he wants to move to that is growing slowly, but surely. I'm...not exactly confident in the Brooklyn move and the first few years after even with Thorn as GM.

Sorry E...maybe it is my selfishness for not fully supporting a Brooklyn move. I can tell you I'm not going to be one of those guys that say they aren't going to be a Nets fans anymore if they move. Those are the real b******.

[enetric]

Rich...

I havent read the details of the contstruction costs...but after reading how much cash the Yankees are getting back on the new stadium...I am sure its not all on ownership. Now...they wont get the avsurd sweet deal the Yankees got...but still...they will get help. And yes...the naming rights deal is over time...but it should tell you something when you can sell the naming right to an unbuilt arena for a record breaking total. If they can do that...what do you think Yormack can do once this thing is built?????

The next part...not sure if I was unclear about football. What I meant was....

A new NJ named footbal franchise without the support of all those NYers coming over would NOT see anywhere near the support it does. And that goes towards proving my point about the way NYers spend vs NJ. Which is exactly why I think this team in Brooklyn...called Brooklyn or NY or whatever...in a new state of the art attraction that is accessible from public transportation...surrounded by a growing business district (more important when so many of your games are weeknights at 7:30).

As for the potential gowth in retail...hey...its not like 17 and 4 arent already major shopping desitnation spots. There are amazing malls there. And honestly? Not sure how retail crossover translates to more ticket sales if they did stay in the meadowlands. I mean whats the thinking? Great shopping and fun things to do over there now....why dont we buy a ticket package for the Nets as well? I believe a sports franchise is a destination attraction...not a mall anchor.

I am not saying there couldnt be a surge. Just saying...I dont think it will be what Brooklyn is. And btw...I live in Queens...not Brooklyn so this is not a local bias. I have no great affection for Brooklyn itself. I have just seen the congestion and development of that area.....and see major potential for us. I also prefer having our own arena that is built to cater to us.

I dont really feel that is a fair assesment of Ratner. Ratner didnt want Kmart gone. If you recall...the spending freeze had to do with other buyers in the transition of it all. Rod and Ratner spoke at length about that after the sale. Since then...Rod turned that whole thing around and flipped 2 of the picks we got from Denver along with filler for Vince Carter. So we got Marcus Williams and Vince Carter for Kmart, the right to dump Zo's horrid contract and Aaron Williams.

Would you undo that???? Kmart's deal was what? 85-90mil? And most of those years he was hurt.

After that...he maxed Kidd, resigned RJ, Extended VC....and did authorize Rod to go after Rahim or anyone else he wanted. Rod backed out of that deal due to the medical reports. Did it wrong...but in the end he was right about that too. SO what has Ratner done wrong with this team that was controllable? He was willing to spend and did it correctly. He seems to back the decisions of his President...so? I have no beef.

As for what has happened in Brooklyn....did you think it was going to be easy? Again I refer to the Yankees. Look at all the law suits...and fighting and nonsense. That's the cost of business.

I believe strongly there will be far more people looking to go to games in Brooklen than there will be people looking to block the move when its all said and done. Balking a major construction project isnt about saying this is a bad idea...its about saying...its a bad idea for those who are against it. And that comes down to who is going to make money...and who is going to lose.

As for the location thing...Rich...I already said...I get that. I have talked forever with JJ about that. He is nuts about it and I get it. I dont think that way. Had the Yankees moved to NJ...I would have had said big whoop. We got a new stadium...about time. I could care less as a fan that they stayed in the Bronx. But hey that's me.

I want the best product...I want any edge we can get over other teams...and as long as the team is within 30 or so miles that I can still go once in a while...it is still covered every game by a local cable station...I am fine.

Now I just want construction to get under way so we can show potential fa's next summer...its a done deal. Its a long shot for who we get...especially with the Nix following our lead and blowing themselves up finally...but I am sure if all we are pedaling is IZOD or an unknown future...we get no one.

[vincecarter4pres]

The funny part is if Brooklyn is a go, our main competition for FA's, IMO, is Chicago.
They are the only other team with a serious media market and draw of a historic franchise that has major caproom(if they don't match Gordon and if they trade Hinrich and/or Deng they have absolutely insane caproom) and still has a number of talented pieces already on the roster.

[enetric]

The funny part is if Brooklyn is a go, our main competition for FA's, IMO, is Chicago.
They are the only other team with a serious media market and draw of a historic franchise that has major caproom(if they don't match Gordon and if they trade Hinrich and/or Deng they have absolutely insane caproom) and still has a number of talented pieces already on the roster.

I am not following your thinking. Chicago still HAS to do all of those trades...easier said then done. And I do not think they will pull it off. In fact...if they do not match...they may decide NOT to dump those guys.

NiX are the big comeptition because of market...but keep your eye on Portland. Lets see what they do this summer. I think they are fools if they overpay Hedo or someone like that. Why not sit one more year? They are teaming with young talent....and they have the flexibility. OK not a major market...but an attractive place to play...and certainly not Memphis or OK!

BTW...I ran Zach for Q...no match in the checker. How does that trade happen? Or is Memphis under the cap and to hell with the match?

[vincecarter4pres]

Memphis is way under the cap.

As for Chicago, if they don't match Gordon, and sign Thomas to deal of about 6.5 million a year or less to start, including their draft picks this year and next, they will still be around 20 million under the cap as is, i.e. including Hinrich, Rose, Deng, Salmons, picking up team options on Noah and including the salaries of James Johnson, Taj Gibson and their 1st round pick next year.
Hell, if they really wanted they could renounce Tyrus Thomas and they would be around 26 to 27 million under the cap. If they dump Deng this season for something like an expiring and a pick, it puts them at another 11.35 million under plus whatever salary the pick or prospect is paid.
I mean they can VERY REALISTICALLY be around 30 million under the cap with Rose, Hinrich, Tyrus Thomas, James Johnson, Taj Gibson, Noah, John Salmons, their 2010 rookie and another guy on a rookie contract that came as the bounty for Deng all signed, without a lot of worry of reupping high priced contracts to add to the payroll that the FA's cost.
Wow.

[enetric]

Hold on a sec...didnt you tell in the other thread that players like Boone have a cap hold that is triple? And Thomas is at 6.3 mil quaqlifying for next summer right? So lets start there.

I have them at around 26mil for Hinrich, Deng and Salmons right? Plus this years picks of Gibson and Johnson.

They arent going to renounce Rose or Noah that's another 8.7 mil. So that gets them to around 35 which is where you get the 20 mil not including TT? Right? Am I following you?

So where are we by your projections. I mean its easier to dump Dooling, Najera, Sean Williams and Boone than it is to simply say oh well to Deng, Hinrich and TT dont you think?

And if they do all of that...why would anyone want to go there? Rose and Salmons?

OK..sure I can see what you are saying...but out of curiosity what do you have us at...and where we could be at keeping all the must pieces. I will tell you now...I do not see Dooling as one of them. I think he can go....I actually expect he will go if we have a shot to do serious damage.

Also what is the starting salary year one on a max contract right now?

[deviljets7]

Hold on a sec...didnt you tell in the other thread that players like Boone have a cap hold that is triple? And Thomas is at 6.3 mil quaqlifying for next summer right? So lets start there.

I have them at around 26mil for Hinrich, Deng and Salmons right? Plus this years picks of Gibson and Johnson.

They arent going to renounce Rose or Noah that's another 8.7 mil. So that gets them to around 35 which is where you get the 20 mil not including TT? Right? Am I following you?

So where are we by your projections. I mean its easier to dump Dooling, Najera, Sean Williams and Boone than it is to simply say oh well to Deng, Hinrich and TT dont you think?

And if they do all of that...why would anyone want to go there? Rose and Salmons?

OK..sure I can see what you are saying...but out of curiosity what do you have us at...and where we could be at keeping all the must pieces. I will tell you now...I do not see Dooling as one of them. I think he can go....I actually expect he will go if we have a shot to do serious damage.

Also what is the starting salary year one on a max contract right now?

The cap hold on a 4th year RFA (like Boone and Tyrus will be in 2010) is 3x the previous salary if you're making less than the league average. If you're making more than the league average, it's 2.5x the previous salary.

For the Bulls to be a viable option in 2010, Tyrus has to be out the door. One from the group of Deng, Hinrich, Salmons likely will as well. But then again I think Salmons will opt out of his deal, making it moot.

[vincecarter4pres]

A) I don't think about Salmons opting out, you're right, he likely will.

B) I fully expect one of if not both of Deng and Hinrich to be gone. Hinrich is not going to be that hard to trade, his salary decreases and he is only slightly overpaid. Someone like Portland, Philly, etc. will wind up dealing for him if available.
Deng is a guy I could easily see a team trading for as well, even though I think he's trash.
Either way, figure one's gone.

C) Tyrus Thomas can be dealt with first, on the 1st day of free agency eliminating his caphold and giving a solid # and I don't see him getting more then what Charlie V just got and his deal starts at 7 million or less. There's also a very good chance Thomas is dealt by the deadline this season and if they curb their expectations for return value there will be numerous suitors.

D) They aren't a great situation talent wise, but they do have D Rose and another high level season will do nothing but good for the franchise's chances.

E) I absolutley never said they were a better draw then us, especially if we have Brooklyn in our back pocket, just said they could easily be our main comp.

[enetric]

A) I don't think about Salmons opting out, you're right, he likely will.

B) I fully expect one of if not both of Deng and Hinrich to be gone. Hinrich is not going to be that hard to trade, his salary decreases and he is only slightly overpaid. Someone like Portland, Philly, etc. will wind up dealing for him if available.
Deng is a guy I could easily see a team trading for as well, even though I think he's trash.
Either way, figure one's gone.

C) Tyrus Thomas can be dealt with first, on the 1st day of free agency eliminating his caphold and giving a solid # and I don't see him getting more then what Charlie V just got and his deal starts at 7 million or less. There's also a very good chance Thomas is dealt by the deadline this season and if they curb their expectations for return value there will be numerous suitors.

D) They aren't a great situation talent wise, but they do have D Rose and another high level season will do nothing but good for the franchise's chances.

E) I absolutley never said they were a better draw then us, especially if we have Brooklyn in our back pocket, just said they could easily be our main comp.

a- 1st thing. I am looking at HH and they have Salmons guaranteed for next season at 5.8 they do not list it as a player option. Granted different sites...different info.


b- why you would be so quick to assume one of these guys will be gone for scraps? They just lost Gordon...they may not look to go that route. And...Hinrich is listed at 3 more years on the books 26.5 mil. Pesonally...from the way he has hit the skids...and looking at how little teams are offering FA's...he might not be easy to move. And Deng? Really> have you looked at that contract for a guy that is realy this medicore?

c- If TT becoms guaranteed your numbers for the Bulls still suck.

d- Im sorry...did they HAVE a high level season?

e- I didnt dsay you said that...but I think you are being awful generous with their what ifs and being very unsure about our situation and how much easier it is for us to make a couple of small contracts go away than what they have to deal with....especially inthe face of the Boozer conversation. Its one thing not to like making a Boozer move...its another to paint it inacurately,

[Rich Rane]

Rich...

I havent read the details of the contstruction costs...but after reading how much cash the Yankees are getting back on the new stadium...I am sure its not all on ownership. Now...they wont get the avsurd sweet deal the Yankees got...but still...they will get help. And yes...the naming rights deal is over time...but it should tell you something when you can sell the naming right to an unbuilt arena for a record breaking total. If they can do that...what do you think Yormack can do once this thing is built?????

The next part...not sure if I was unclear about football. What I meant was....

A new NJ named footbal franchise without the support of all those NYers coming over would NOT see anywhere near the support it does. And that goes towards proving my point about the way NYers spend vs NJ. Which is exactly why I think this team in Brooklyn...called Brooklyn or NY or whatever...in a new state of the art attraction that is accessible from public transportation...surrounded by a growing business district (more important when so many of your games are weeknights at 7:30).

As for the potential gowth in retail...hey...its not like 17 and 4 arent already major shopping desitnation spots. There are amazing malls there. And honestly? Not sure how retail crossover translates to more ticket sales if they did stay in the meadowlands. I mean whats the thinking? Great shopping and fun things to do over there now....why dont we buy a ticket package for the Nets as well? I believe a sports franchise is a destination attraction...not a mall anchor.

I am not saying there couldnt be a surge. Just saying...I dont think it will be what Brooklyn is. And btw...I live in Queens...not Brooklyn so this is not a local bias. I have no great affection for Brooklyn itself. I have just seen the congestion and development of that area.....and see major potential for us. I also prefer having our own arena that is built to cater to us.

I dont really feel that is a fair assesment of Ratner. Ratner didnt want Kmart gone. If you recall...the spending freeze had to do with other buyers in the transition of it all. Rod and Ratner spoke at length about that after the sale. Since then...Rod turned that whole thing around and flipped 2 of the picks we got from Denver along with filler for Vince Carter. So we got Marcus Williams and Vince Carter for Kmart, the right to dump Zo's horrid contract and Aaron Williams.

Would you undo that???? Kmart's deal was what? 85-90mil? And most of those years he was hurt.

After that...he maxed Kidd, resigned RJ, Extended VC....and did authorize Rod to go after Rahim or anyone else he wanted. Rod backed out of that deal due to the medical reports. Did it wrong...but in the end he was right about that too. SO what has Ratner done wrong with this team that was controllable? He was willing to spend and did it correctly. He seems to back the decisions of his President...so? I have no beef.

As for what has happened in Brooklyn....did you think it was going to be easy? Again I refer to the Yankees. Look at all the law suits...and fighting and nonsense. That's the cost of business.

I believe strongly there will be far more people looking to go to games in Brooklen than there will be people looking to block the move when its all said and done. Balking a major construction project isnt about saying this is a bad idea...its about saying...its a bad idea for those who are against it. And that comes down to who is going to make money...and who is going to lose.

As for the location thing...Rich...I already said...I get that. I have talked forever with JJ about that. He is nuts about it and I get it. I dont think that way. Had the Yankees moved to NJ...I would have had said big whoop. We got a new stadium...about time. I could care less as a fan that they stayed in the Bronx. But hey that's me.

I want the best product...I want any edge we can get over other teams...and as long as the team is within 30 or so miles that I can still go once in a while...it is still covered every game by a local cable station...I am fine.

Now I just want construction to get under way so we can show potential fa's next summer...its a done deal. Its a long shot for who we get...especially with the Nix following our lead and blowing themselves up finally...but I am sure if all we are pedaling is IZOD or an unknown future...we get no one.

It took me a week to read this. Yes, E...I read this before you started posted this just to catch up.

Brooklyn Costs:
http://www.nypost.com/seven/06242009/ne ... 175778.htm

Few things....I've never been against the Brooklyn move. My big problem is outweighing front office spending in the move to Brooklyn affecting team costs in free agency. Maybe it's all the loss of money we've been doing the last few years along with the delays and knowing that we won't be there by 2010 that have been hindering my thoughts here. I know...we're looking 10-15 years beyond the move and I agree it'll be better for the Nets then...but until then...I mean Thorn could only do so much. With the all the costs to the big spending and little details of the move, it's not a question if we can sign two max deals next summer. It's more of an are we going to. We can break ground and finally start working on the move, but all the delays and court appeals represented by the people of New York doesn't make good impressions on future free agents until the move (I do realize the other bargaining chip we have that the Knicks don't on LeBron is one of our owners).

My whole thing on Xanadu is that it will finally attract people to East Rutherford. With the new complex, their building more public transportation to the area. Living in NJ, I know it's a shopping mall in itself...and a parking lot...and a diner...but I don't see just a simple surge, I see great promotions in Xanadu along with player-fan meetings to increase attendance along with building the foundations of a solid fanbase.

As for Ratner, I think he should've worked on the Brooklyn project way before making it public. I understand that's much harder to do with the stadium they're moving to isn't built, but he's certainly feeling the effects of it now. The Steinbrenners also have much deeper pockets and were moving to a place where their fanbase was guaranteed to come. When Ratner bought the team, the guy completely isolated his current fanbase and went full force on a move in which a plan wasn't fully developed. Had it not been for Thorn's miracle working with all those deals you've mentioned above, Ratner would've had a hard time giving away free tickets to Izod than he normally does now.

[enetric]

I am not sure of the details for what Brooklyn will end up costing Ratner when all is said and done. As for deeper pockets that the Steinbrenner family...no idea if that is true. George spent most of his time with the Yankeees no where near the richest owners in personal wealth which is the real marvel. He was just agressive.....and greaw his product massivle yover the years.

Pull up Ynakee stadium on wikipedia. Its AMAZING what they pulled off to finance this thing. When all is said and done? Didnt cost them squat. It was a thing of beauty. Dont forget...Ratner has a real estate project tied to the arena. its not just the area move itself.

Anyway....overall very happy with Ratner. I think he is the bst ownership i can recall with the Nets. Brooklyn btw was public when he BOUGHT the team. HAD TO BE. Cant just sneak that in. Had to be approved as an owner. If you recall he had oposition from others looking to buy the team and prove NJ was better to keep the team. From what I have seen? David Stern et al WANTS this move and will help make it happen if need be. I coul dbe wrong....but it seems to me the Dolans are the only ones in the NBA who would like this to fall apart.

BTW....every time I read "XANADU" in your posts...I hear the announcers voice in Citizen Kane as he says it bodly to give grandure to the estate as the camera pans over it. Cracks me up for whatever reason as I read it. No idea if you know what I am refering to.

[Rich Rane]

BTW....every time I read "XANADU" in your posts...I hear the announcers voice in Citizen Kane as he says it bodly to give grandure to the estate as the camera pans over it. Cracks me up for whatever reason as I read it. No idea if you know what I am refering to.

It's only one of the greatest American movies ever made. How could it not pop into your head?

[enetric]

XANADU!!!!! Love that..lol.

[Rich Rane]

Take it for what it's worth:

In a short item in ESPN the Magazine’s “3 Seconds” column, Ric Bucher reports that “financial issues” may force Bruce Ratner to sell the team. Quoting “multiple league sources”, Bucher also reports “prospective owners want the team to stay put”. SI’s Ian Thomsen reported last week that four groups are interested in buying the Nets but that any sale was predicated on the Nets moving to Brooklyn.

The 3 Seconds Column: Multiple league sources say Nets owner Bruce Ratner’s dream of relocating to Brooklyn has grown even further from reality due to financial issues. He could be forced to sell the team before it happens, and prospective owners want the team to stay put.

[Preludepunk27]

By staying put, this has to mean Newark. I swear to go the IZOD Center is so beyond putrid compared to every other Pro Basketball arena in the ENTIRE COUNTRY now. My honest to God bet is if he sells, we're not gonna be in Jersey anymore. The owner of the Devils even has growing concerns about the Nets in Newark. This situation shall get very interesting over the next 6 months.

[Rich Rane]

Brooklyn on the Wiretap:

Assemblyman Hakeem Jeffries is disillusioned about the "Atlantic Yards" project, which would include the building of a new Brooklyn arena for the Nets. Development will take more time, cost more money and look different than the original plan.

"The way in which the project was sold is dramatically different than the one in which the developer appears prepared to deliver," Jeffries said. "The promises made by this developer have disappeared like a house of cards."

The original price tag was $3.9 billion but cost is now estimated at $4.9 billion, even after the elaborate design of famed architect Frank Gehry was dropped.

Nonetheless, owner Bruce Ratner has stated that he is determined to break ground on construction this year with the goal of opening the Nets' new Brooklyn home by 2012.