With a less than average QB we would be 3-0.

[coolcono]

Yes our QB situation is that bad. The defense and RB positions are awesome, and with a mediocre QB we would be 3-0. Any disagreements?

[$$D-Block$$]

I sort of disagree.

If we were to re-incarnate Fran Tarkenton in his prime to lead these Vikings, even he would be shaking his head with the play calling. Granted the QB's do make some mistakes, and miss some open targets, I am more of the opinion that if we had more creative play calling (and not just the Moore pass to the TE in the end zone) we would be much more competitive.

If you could give us a new QB and a decent head coach, and I would book my tickets to Arizona right now!

[mandurugo]

defense doesn't seem to be awesome. They are still very good against the run, but unfortunately still seem to be the worst against the pass again. I don't know anything about football though, so I don't know if this is because of personnel, schemes, or play calling - or if it's going to change.

[Worm Guts]

I sort of disagree.

If we were to re-incarnate Fran Tarkenton in his prime to lead these Vikings, even he would be shaking his head with the play calling. Granted the QB's do make some mistakes, and miss some open targets, I am more of the opinion that if we had more creative play calling (and not just the Moore pass to the TE in the end zone) we would be much more competitive.

If you could give us a new QB and a decent head coach, and I would book my tickets to Arizona right now!

Playcalling is overrated. If you execute you succeed for the most part. You do need to pass enough to open up the running game and that's the problem right now. Nobody respects our passing game so they're stacking the box. We need receivers that can get open and a QB to get them the ball.

[Worm Guts]

defense doesn't seem to be awesome. They are still very good against the run, but unfortunately still seem to be the worst against the pass again. I don't know anything about football though, so I don't know if this is because of personnel, schemes, or play calling - or if it's going to change.

The Vikings defense is giving up 12 points per game and scoring 7 ppg themselves. That's pretty awesome.

[mandurugo]

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The Vikings defense is giving up 12 points per game and scoring 7 ppg themselves. That's pretty awesome.

Well, fair enough. But are you really impressed by their pass defense? Perhaps they have to change their scheme to be more disruptive to passing attacks... but if they stop commiting so many men to stop the run will their run defense still be as effective? I don't think they can continue hoping teams will spend the entire first half running the ball up the middle.

[Worm Guts]

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Well, fair enough. But are you really impressed by their pass defense? Perhaps they have to change their scheme to be more disruptive to passing attacks... but if they stop commiting so many men to stop the run will their run defense still be as effective? I don't think they can continue hoping teams will spend the entire first half running the ball up the middle.

I think the reason the Vikings a good against the run is because of the personnel, not the scheme. The biggest problem with the pass defense is that they don't get a lot of rush from their front 4, they don't even get a great rush sometimes when they blitz. They could play more aggressively in the secondary (more man-to-man) but that would lead to more big plays. Realistically the only way for the Vikings to get better against the pass would be to get better pass rushers.
Overall though, the Vikings are in the middle of the pack as far pass yards allowed per game(18th overall). They've more than offset that by creating turnovers and stopping the run.

[$$D-Block$$]

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Playcalling is overrated. If you execute you succeed for the most part. You do need to pass enough to open up the running game and that's the problem right now. Nobody respects our passing game so they're stacking the box. We need receivers that can get open and a QB to get them the ball.

I disagree. If you call routes that play to receivers skills, we would be a lot more succesful. I would like to see a lot more hook routes to Sidney Rice. More quick slants to Bobby Wade. And at least once every 2 or 3 sets of downs, a bomb over to Troy Williamson. NO MORE PASSES TO CHECKDOWN RECEIVERS!!! I want that play completely outlawed, I'd rather whoever was at QB take the sack.(not really) The coaching staff have to realize that that is not the way to build confidence in a QB. I just want more of a vertical passing attack. And that comes down to playcalling.

[Worm Guts]

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And at least once every 2 or 3 sets of downs, a bomb over to Troy Williamson. .

I thought you want to play to receivers strengths, Troy Williamson cant catch the ball over his shoulder.

[Worm Guts]

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NO MORE PASSES TO CHECKDOWN RECEIVERS!!! I want that play completely outlawed, I'd rather whoever was at QB take the sack.(not really)The coaching staff have to realize that that is not the way to build confidence in a QB. I just want more of a vertical passing attack. And that comes down to playcalling .

Coaches don't call passes to checkdown receivers. It's a read, not a play. Part of the problem is that we've had no success throwing the ball downfield. I think 2 or 3 of Jackson interceptions against Detroit were on deep passes. Holcomb missed Ferguson on a deep pass for a touchdown and Jackson has missed his share of deep receivers.

[$$D-Block$$]

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I thought you want to play to receivers strengths, Troy Williamson cant catch the ball over his shoulder.

Ya well, if he doesn't have the deep ball, he doesn't have anything.

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Coaches don't call passes to checkdown receivers. It's a read, not a play. Part of the problem is that we've had no success throwing the ball downfield. I think 2 or 3 of Jackson interceptions against Detroit were on deep passes. Holcomb missed Ferguson on a deep pass for a touchdown and Jackson has missed his share of deep receivers.

It is absolutely up to the QB who he passes the ball to, but when the receivers are running their routes and can't get open because the defense has honed in on what they're trying to do, who fault is that?

If you notice, for the past two years, we have been one of the best teams in the NFL on our first drives of the game. Last year up until something like week 7, we had scored on every opening drive. Childress and crew are able to come up with great plays on the first series, WR are open and making catches, the run game is opened up, and we have success. After a few incomplete passes the next series though, we completely abandon the mid-range passing game. We will go for a long pass every once in a while, but it doesn't happen often enough to scare opposing defenses.

And your right the INT's made in the Dertroit game were on long passes where T-Jack just threw the ball up hoping a receiver could make a play. He was clearly as frustrated with that game as we were and was trying to get us back in it all at once.

[Worm Guts]

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Ya well, if he doesn't have the deep ball, he doesn't have anything.

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Actually he should be good at running slants and crossing patterns. Coming out of college he was supposed to be great at running after the catch. I also think he's pretty good at getting open.

[Worm Guts]

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It is absolutely up to the QB who he passes the ball to, but when the receivers are running their routes and can't get open because the defense has honed in on what they're trying to do, who fault is that?
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Is it because the defense has honed in on what they are trying to do or is it that our receivers suck at getting open? I tend to think the latter.

[$$D-Block$$]

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Is it because the defense has honed in on what they are trying to do or is it that our receivers suck at getting open? I tend to think the latter.

There is no doubt that our receivers aren't world class by any means, but the fact that our three QB's have amounted to an average QB rating of 50.8, second worst in the league, doesn't help either. There are teams with WR groups as bad as ours,(Tennessee, Kansas City, Pittsburgh, Jacksonville) yet they aren't doing as bad. Brad Childress, the offensive mastermind, can't find a way to get our receivers just a little bit of separation? Mike Martz, another offensive mastermind, finds a way to get Shaun McDonald some separation by calling good routes. And I'm sure we have receivers on this team that are better than him.

To be honest, we don't even know how good our receivers could be. We are the only team in the NFL without a receiver in the top 50 in receiving yards. THE ONLY TEAM! We are so worried about spreading out the ball, that we aren't allowing any of our players to establish themselves as legitimate threats. I think Sidney Rice could be that player for us right now. I really don't think he is as raw as everybody else does. Steve Spurrier was a pro coach, and he had a lot of faith in Rice. Maybe Childress should to.

[Worm Guts]

It's not just that our receivers are bad, its that they are inexperienced too, along with our QB being inexperienced. We have the worst combination in the league by far. The only team you mentioned that is in a comparable situation is Tennessee (You need to throw out Pittsburgh altogether, they have Hines Ward and Santonio Holmes). And the Titans are actually below us in passing yards per game.
You could be right about Childress, I just think it's difficult to judge with the lack of talent and/or experience.

[Worm Guts]

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To be honest, we don't even know how good our receivers could be. We are the only team in the NFL without a receiver in the top 50 in receiving yards. THE ONLY TEAM! We are so worried about spreading out the ball, that we aren't allowing any of our players to establish themselves as legitimate threats. I think Sidney Rice could be that player for us right now. I really don't think he is as raw as everybody else does. Steve Spurrier was a pro coach, and he had a lot of faith in Rice. Maybe Childress should to.

About Sydney Rice, I like him but first year receivers don't contribute much. It also needs to be pointed out that there is a long line of receiver busts that came from Spurrier coached teams.

[JBoog35]

Shaun McDonald gets to play corners like Marcus McCauley. Troy Williamson gets to play corners like DeAngelo Hall and Al Harris who are supreme players compared to Williamson. While McDonald and McCauley are a draw, and draws go to the O.

That being said, our WR's stink. Ferguson was released for a reason. He was offered a practice squad spot on Houston (who has no names I've heard of other than Andre Johnson). He cannot catch, same as Williamson. Rice is a number 2 reciever in my mind ideally. Williamson would be a great slot reciever but is overpaid. This receiving core cannot get open, hence the QB has to hold the ball too long. Ergo, he gets sacked or has to force the ball..... A lot of the blame is on the WR's IMO. You could put Kitna in here and he would get owned too. We will have to wait and see if the Vikes can add a difference maker in the offseason.

[$$D-Block$$]

It's not just that our receivers are bad, its that they are inexperienced too, along with our QB being inexperienced. We have the worst combination in the league by far. The only team you mentioned that is in a comparable situation is Tennessee (You need to throw out Pittsburgh altogether, they have Hines Ward and Santonio Holmes). And the Titans are actually below us in passing yards per game.

Yes they are below us, but if you count only the yards per game by receivers, excluding RB's, we average 98 yards a game while the Titans are at about 136 py/g. Now that isn't exactly fair cause I think we target our RB's more than they do, but it still applies.

Your definately right about our QB being inexperienced and that he isn't comfortable with our receivers yet, and vice versa. But averaging 100 yards a game passing to our receivers is completely unacceptable.

You could be right about Childress, I just think it's difficult to judge with the lack of talent and/or experience

Thats fair.

Shaun McDonald gets to play corners like Marcus McCauley. Troy Williamson gets to play corners like DeAngelo Hall and Al Harris who are supreme players compared to Williamson. While McDonald and McCauley are a draw, and draws go to the O.

So? What does that mean? McDonald is nobody. Wade could easily just as productive as him if we put him in the slot. And we do every once in a while, and I'd like to see him there more often so that he can get the same mis-matches McDonald does. In fact, we could put Williamson there too. It's not like teams are that scared of him or anything.

This receiving core cannot get open, hence the QB has to hold the ball too long. Ergo, he gets sacked or has to force the ball..... A lot of the blame is on the WR's IMO. You could put Kitna in here and he would get owned too. We will have to wait and see if the Vikes can add a difference maker in the offseason.

Well if they don't have the skills to get open, the blame is on both the receivers and the coaching staff. There are ways to get players open even if they suck. Run 7 yards and curl. I know I'm making it seem easy, but these guys are professionals. It is up to the coaching staff, who hired each and every one of these guys, to put them in a position to succeed. If we were leading the league in dropped passes in the end zone, the blame would be entirely on the WR's. But as of right now the coaches aren't doing what they are supposed to be doing.

[Worm Guts]

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So? What does that mean? McDonald is nobody. Wade could easily just as productive as him if we put him in the slot. And we do every once in a while, and I'd like to see him there more often so that he can get the same mis-matches McDonald does. In fact, we could put Williamson there too. It's not like teams are that scared of him or anything.

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If we move our best receivers to the slot, defenses will adjust. McDonald is the beneficiary of having Roy Williams and Calvin Johnson in space. Those 2 guys open up the field.

[$$D-Block$$]

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If we move our best receivers to the slot, defenses will adjust. McDonald is the beneficiary of having Roy Williams and Calvin Johnson in space. Those 2 guys open up the field.

Ya well, its a shame we don't have a "best" receiver as of yet. As of right now, teams don't exactly have to game plan too much around our WR corp. CB's will guard whoever is out there catching without paying too much attention to any of them individually.