Pruitt, Giddens and Walker...

[Ed Pinkney]

What are peoples thoughts on these three? Should we keep all three of them? Do we have space for all three of them? Do we overvalue them because they wear the green? Could they be effective bench contributors next season?

I think they definitely have the potential and could be pretty important players that may be a factor in our free agent search, as between them they might help us out at the wing spots. And obviously Doc has a long track record of not giving good young players a chance until injury forces his hand (hello Ryan Gomes and Leon Powe).

I think Pruitt is probably going to need to do something pretty special quickly if he is to stick with the team. He has shown the glimpses of what he could give this team, I think everyone was pretty excited by some of the play he had during the preseason last year. But has he missed his chance? He has the size and skill set to be real good. Personally I hope he gets there.

Walker is always going to be a fan favourite because of what he can do athletically. Some experience and polish could make this kid a real player. We will just have to wait and see.

Giddens obviously did himself no favours by joining the team late last year. But his stat line in the Development League was real nice and showed why Danny took him. I have also just read that he is working out hard already in Boston and is looking forward to the summer league.

I suppose after the anticlimax of the draft, these are almost like three rookies we can hope start to shine. Maybe they can save us from too much Tony Allen and Eddie House, two players who I think just aren't good enough to rely on as regular parts of our bench if we want to win another title with Paul, KG and Ray.

Thoughts?

[canman1971]

Depending on what happens during free agency, I would expect 2 of the 3 to be gone. Pruitt has shown really nothing in 2 years, so what is the point? Walker was ahead of Giddens last year, but Giddens' contract is guaranteed due to first round status correct? So I would expect to see Giddens' shopped as a throw in to acquire some via trade and the team keeping Walker. But, that could all change after summer league and free agency. We could keep all three or none.

[BillessuR6]

When you are a championship team you can`t have more than 2 projects. Last season we had Pruitt, Giddens, Walker, POB, way too much for a contender. I don`t think any of them will crack the rotation, they might be decent role players in a few years but players like this can only get time on young rebuilding teams...in Boston there just aren`t enough minutes for them to show if they can play in the NBA...

[humblebum]

I'm a Pruitt guy personally. I really like his defensive potential. He has good size and length, he's quick and has good anticipation skills. Offensively, he needs to develop confidence and rhythm, which IMO is what made him successful during pre-season i.e. he got enough minutes to develop that inner belief in his game. In other words, I feel like Pruitt's shortcomings are primarily mental. If he can mature to that level where he knows he can play at the NBA level he could provide a good balance to Rondo.

Walker and Giddens to me need to be put into a situation where they have to beat out bench veterans to get playing time. I'd love for Walker to crack the rotation because this team is crying out for some above the rim athletes. Giddens would really have to improve his three point shot in order to get any playing time this season.

[GreenDreamer]

I feel sorry for all of them. If they played on a worse team, they would have got playing time. Even some decent ones, to be honest. Take the Sixers. Theya re so desperate for three point shooting that Pruitt probably would have had plenty of run over there. In a running system a guy like Walker could look good. They are stuck on a Title contender, and hardly ever have a chance to get any rhythm to their games.

A guy actually needs to get some consistent run to show what he can do, and I don't trust Doc's judgment at all anyways. Anyone who has been watching this team for a while, and has actually paid attention, KNOWS that Doc has been forced to play guys against his will many times, just to find out that they are good. Rondo certainly fit that description, as Doc had it all set up to bury the kid on teh bench and have him sent to the D-League, only to have it proven by the end of the season that not only was Rondo worthy of playing time, but was the team's third best player (!?!?!). Did Doc actually realize this before the fact? Hell no. It took Tony blowing his knee out, Paul's stress reaction (fracture), and Wally going down to FORCE Doc to play Rondo. If Doc had it his way, Rondo never would have seen the court at all. Genius.

Gomes couldn't buy a minute of meanigful playing time until Perk got hurt back in the 2005-2006 season, and often times when he did actually get out on the court, Doc was playing him at SHOOTING GUARD!!! Ryan went from hardly playing at all, to playing as many minutes as anyone on the team virtually overnight. Seriously, you can't get on the court, then you are bypassing the guys ahead of you in the rotation within a couple of games? Check out his game log. It is bizarre.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/fc/ ... &year=2006

Doc postured that he was just waiting for the right time to play him, and that was the plan all along. What a load of crap. He simply refused to play the guy, and even when Danny shipped Blount out, opening up rotation minutes, Ryan's minutes actually went DOWN. He was forced to play Ryan, and the kid played so well that Doc couldn't take him out. Typical Doc.

That is why I'm not so down on Pruitt. For one thing, when the kid actually does get to play, he is almost strictly used as a point guard. OK, he's not a point guard. How about using him at the two? The kid is a good shooter. We've all got to see him be that when he actually is able to string minutes together consistently. He certainly didn't get those minutes this season, as he only played 9% of the team's minutes. Bill Walker played 5%, and he only came up later on in this season, and wasn't used a whole bunch to my memory. Id'd be willing to bet that quite a few of those minutes for Pruitt came in blowouts, when Doc was simply emptying teh bench on teh floor. No real chemistry there. Just getting whatever bodies he had out there. Not a great situation to display your abilities. The kid is a good defender, and is a hell of an athlete, IMO.

He only played 34 minutes, total, with Rondo the entire season. Kind of hard to really get to know each other out there that way. I think that Rondo could have been really good for the kid, and vice versa. We needed to have a bigger SG than Eddie who could actually shoot, yet Doc chose the "Play Ray into the ground" option instead of giving this kid a real crack at doing the job. Of those 34 minutes, I'm pretty sure half of them were in late game, big lead situations where Rondo played at the 2 just togive Pruitt the chance to get some point guard time in. Yeah, what a boon for both guys. Take the ball out of Rondo's hands and make him a "floor spacer" for Gabe. Even with that vbeing said, what was their plus/minus together in those 34 minutes? +13, a +18.4 per 40 minutes rate. Neither one shot well, but having two good defenders in your backcourt has its advantages. maybe Gabe just doesn't have teh chops to play at this level,but being forced to do something you aren't good at, and not being allowed to do what you are actually good at, and not being able to play with the one guy who could really help you is not my idea of him failing. I think Ray's legs would have really appreciated it too if Doc had actually TRIED to do this. He did not.

[cfan79]

I think Bill Walker is going to be really good. He seems very confident in his abilities and doesn't back down from anyone. He got into it with Ron Artest last season and even his own teammate KG during practice. That's fire.

Giddens is probably going to be traded. I think we have to have another veteran off the bench in place of him ala Posey.

Pruitt, we should let him walk. He could be o.k., but I like Lester Hudson's potential more. Plus its not a good thing to have 3 point guards who've been in the NBA 3 years or less.

[Celtics_85]

Pruitt has to sit behind Rondo, House, and then Marbury at the end of the season. I here from many posters how he hasn't done anything here in two years. On the contrary it has been reported that Ainge and Doc do like him. He doesn't play bad defense, can get the ball up the court, and with time on the court can score the ball. There were many times where Doc and Ainge have made the coment how he can really shoot it in practice. He will have competition from Hudson, and we will see where he ends up.

Giddens much like Pruitt was behind quite a few guys and played some at the D-League level where he showed he can play. This training camp will show a lot for him for at his age he needs to show improvement or he could be gone in a trade. Don't really know enough about him to go beyond this.

Walker is a work in progress who has the tools to get some time on the court, and much like Giddens needs to get better in the off season to do so. If he can get the defensive rotations down and develop a more consistant jumper he will be a good contributer to this team. Walker has a nice post game for a SF but it won't be seen till he wins time on the court on a consistant basis, and we already know he can get some rebounds.

At this point any one of these guys could be cap fodder in a trade , but they do have talent to show. It is a matter of improving which is all on them.

[humblebum]

Good post GreenDreamer.

I think Pruitt is being written off more for lack of opportunity than anything else. He's a very good athlete and he's a very astute defensive player. He knows what he's doing out there. Where I agree completely is that it takes time and a consistent role to truly be effective. Especially when you're a young player trying to make it.

Where I disagree is with Pruitt not being a PG. He can play the position but you're going to have to go through some rough patches while he learns the gig at the NBA level. He's not a natural or a great playmaker but he can bring the ball up the floor and he can spread the floor with his range. Playing him alongside Rondo is much better pairing than Rondo/House or Rondo/TA... so Doc should definitely experiment with this, especially in preseason. However, as long as House is around Doc will be overly reliant and flexible as to what makes House most effective.

[GreenDreamer]

Pruitt has to sit behind Rondo, House, and then Marbury at the end of the season. I here from many posters how he hasn't done anything here in two years. On the contrary it has been reported that Ainge and Doc do like him. He doesn't play bad defense, can get the ball up the court, and with time on the court can score the ball. There were many times where Doc and Ainge have made the coment how he can really shoot it in practice. He will have competition from Hudson, and we will see where he ends up.

Giddens much like Pruitt was behind quite a few guys and played some at the D-League level where he showed he can play. This training camp will show a lot for him for at his age he needs to show improvement or he could be gone in a trade. Don't really know enough about him to go beyond this.

Walker is a work in progress who has the tools to get some time on the court, and much like Giddens needs to get better in the off season to do so. If he can get the defensive rotations down and develop a more consistant jumper he will be a good contributer to this team. Walker has a nice post game for a SF but it won't be seen till he wins time on the court on a consistant basis, and we already know he can get some rebounds.

At this point any one of these guys could be cap fodder in a trade , but they do have talent to show. It is a matter of improving which is all on them.

Doc tries to use him as a point guard. He doesn't play him with Rondo. These are not things which help Gabe show anything. That is just the tip of the iceberg, though. Doc's offense, itself, is fundamentally flawed, yet this guy simply will not admit that to himself. It is an offense which supposedly does not need a point guard, yet the offense is at its best with Rondo out there, a guy whose skill set is not anwhere close to being what Doc would want from his point guard. That should be a major alarm bell to people, yet this is ignored. Gabe goes out there and struggles to run it, and sthat means he isn't good? I'm thinking that he maybe is being asked to do what cannot be effectively done to begin with. The way that you are being used has a lot to do with how successful you will be. Personally, I think that the kid would be a really good defensive and offensive compliment to Rondo in an offense which was actually conceived properly.

[humblebum]

The problem is that Gabe gets into the game in bench rotations when KG is out of the game. With the offense running through KG in the post Gabe could function more effectively as a floor spacer. And with KG out Gabe is asked to hit guys coming off screens or to play the Pick and Roll/Pop game which doesn't work to his strengths. Gabe can play PG but he needs to play with other guys who can get it done offensively.

The usual lineup where Gabe got into the game was something like Pruitt, House, Allen, Davis (before he was shooting well), Powe. That's a terrible unit and too much responsibility ends up on Gabe's shoulders. Now if you play Pruitt in a lineup like this: Pruitt/House/Pierce/Davis/Perkins or Pruitt/House/Ray/KG/Davis.

Outside of that I agree though that Gabe would function well as a SG alongside Rondo.

[Celtics_85]

Good psot again and I agree. I have had a feeling that Pruitt was the heir to House. Pruitt has much more to offer than House, and I think the only thing holding Gabe back from taking those minutes is not taking the ball to the hoop, but like you said, it could be a flaw in the offense.

[GreenDreamer]

Good psot again and I agree. I have had a feeling that Pruitt was the heir to House. Pruitt has much more to offer than House, and I think the only thing holding Gabe back from taking those minutes is not taking the ball to the hoop, but like you said, it could be a flaw in the offense.

I'm with you in thinking that Pruitt has more to offer than Eddie.

[GreenDreamer]

The problem is that Gabe gets into the game in bench rotations when KG is out of the game. With the offense running through KG in the post Gabe could function more effectively as a floor spacer. And with KG out Gabe is asked to hit guys coming off screens or to play the Pick and Roll/Pop game which doesn't work to his strengths. Gabe can play PG but he needs to play with other guys who can get it done offensively.

The usual lineup where Gabe got into the game was something like Pruitt, House, Allen, Davis (before he was shooting well), Powe. That's a terrible unit and too much responsibility ends up on Gabe's shoulders. Now if you play Pruitt in a lineup like this: Pruitt/House/Pierce/Davis/Perkins or Pruitt/House/Ray/KG/Davis.

Outside of that I agree though that Gabe would function well as a SG alongside Rondo.

Having a post passer like KG makes life easier on everyone. Rondo had teh best chemistry with him of anyone, which is why I thught it funny that people seemingly ignored that Rondo's offensive surge due to having the ball more wasn't nearly what it would have been if he had that time with the ball, and had KG out there.

Doc puts some really terrible lineups out there, and I agree that the ones you outlined were not to Pruitt favor. I think that actually getting to play off of the ball is to the kids advantage all around. I see him as being a lot like Delonte. A guy who has good ball handling skills and passing skills, but better suited to playing teh two than the one. You can get away with playing him at the one with KG out there against inferior defenses, ut when you go up against teh big boys, it isn't going to work.

I do think that playing the two would simply be good ior his confidence. That alone would make him better in his time at the one. It is a hard slog having to struggle and claw your way along. Just look at Eddie early this season. He was completely screwed up until he got taken off of the ball. It let him get into his comfort zone a bit.

[ParticleMan]

When players suck, it isn't a "flaw in the offense". It means they suck.

Look, I like all those kids, but when you're trying to win a title, it's just not possible to try to give guys like that meaningful minutes and keep winning. They have to contribute. We all love Walker's toughness and flair, but the fact is he was brutal on court last year, by any statistical or other measure. Pruitt was better but he was competing with House, who was clearly better than Pruitt. Giddens never got anything but garbage time because he was behind from the word go.

People criticize Doc for not playing young guys, but he player TA as a rookie over the vet Ricky, and he played Baby and Powe plenty of minutes once they showed they could make an impact. We had 3 guys starting who were under 25 last year in the playoffs. Doc will play young guys just fine, but he's not going to force feed them minutes when they are not earning it. Frankly, that sort of thing doesn't make sense even when you're rebuilding because it gives the kids the wrong impression that it's OK to screw up. But when you're competing for a title, it makes absolutely zero sense.

Of the three, Giddens clearly has the most potential imo. He can score from anywhere on the court. His outside shot isn't great but he's strong enough to get into the paint and score. He can create his own shot, which the other two struggle to do. He's also under our control for 3 more years. He's the obvious guy who stays.

Walker will probably stay because he's a true SF, where we are thin. He also showed some toughness last year which Doc and Danny like, though he's got to tone it down just a bit. Plus he was only a rookie, and played well in D-league.

Pruitt is the guy who is on the outs. It's too bad, I think he's an NBA player, but the reality is 6-3 rail-thin combo guards are a dime a dozen. The drafting of Lester Hudson is a bad sign; he's basically Pruitt with better scoring ability. It will be a battle between those two in camp for the last roster spot, imo, unless Pruitt is shipped out before that. And if it's anything close to a tie, it's going to be Hudson who's kept just because of his potential. Pruitt had 2 years to crack the rotation and couldn't. Plus his DUI wasn't a help, though if he was a player I'm sure that would be overlooked.

This year's camp is a big test. SL, not su much; these guys (well at least Walker and Giddens) have all proven they can dominate NBDL competition. It will be all about who can play D, and who can not make mistakes. We know their physical talent, the question is, whose mental makeup is going to allow them to succeed in the NBA.

[Bad-Thoma]

The one I have the most hope for is actually Giddens, he's got all the tools to be a really good defender. He was a great all around college player and did really well in the NBDL last year as well, hopefully this year he can become a contributor.

[humblebum]

Well Pruitt has the most pro experience. Which isn't saying much but he is going into his third year and I really think he improved from year one to year two quite a bit. He seems like a worker and student of the game. Plus he has the physical tools. As I said, it's just mental for him. He needs to play with more confidence and authority but all the skills are there. When I watch Pruitt I see a talented player and good defender who just needs some consistent playing time and a well thought out role. Basically, he should take House's spot. House might be good in the regular season when nobody cares to gameplan and exploit his weaknesses. But in the playoffs he's terrible, particularly on the defensive end, which is scary because his offense is anemic against good and focused defenses. At least Pruitt will give you defense when his shot isn't falling.

And I think I'm actually starting to agree more with GreenDreamer. Playing alongside Rondo would help and playing with a lineup of solid veterans (hopefully added through free agency) would help more. I hope that the team focuses on bolstering the front court positions... with Ray and Rondo starting all you need is a patchwork unit in the backup backcourt slots and you can get the job done. Without true backups for Pierce, KG, and Perk you're screwed. Especially when you consider the front court depth and variety of the other Championship contenders (Ariza, Odom, Gasol, Bynum, Lebron, Shaq, Howard, Shard, Turk (maybe), Duncan, Jefferson...

[Celts17Pride]

If House opts out he will no longer be a Celtic and Pruitt or Hudson will take his place. Between Pruitt, Hudson, Giddens and Walker I expect 2 to stay and 2 to go. This will all be decided in the summer league and training camp.

[GreenMachine]

Gomes couldn't buy a minute of meanigful playing time until Perk got hurt back in the 2005-2006 season, and often times when he did actually get out on the court, Doc was playing him at SHOOTING GUARD!!! Ryan went from hardly playing at all, to playing as many minutes as anyone on the team virtually overnight. Seriously, you can't get on the court, then you are bypassing the guys ahead of you in the rotation within a couple of games? Check out his game log. It is bizarre.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/fc/ ... &year=2006

I can't tell if you are just a Doc basher (I'm not his biggest fan myself) or you don't remember the details of that season - but this is revisionist history.

The Perk injury of course plaid a part - but the real thing was showcasing Justin Reed, who was then traded within a week of Gomes starting to get PT "virtually overnight".

Also - Gomes at SG? I don't remember that. He played PF his Rookie Year then spend the first summer developing his 15 foot game so he could play SF. Do you have a link to back up with SG claim?

[GreenMachine]

*It also didn't hurt that when Gomes did get PT (game 28) he put up 9 boards on a team desperate for rebounding. He then followed that up with a 9/14 line in his second game getting minutes. Days later the trade went down and Gomes became a regular part of the rotation.

[cfan79]

Yep, I agree Gmachine. We were showcasing Justin Reed just like we did with Ricky Davis. Reed's not even in the league now. So Danny and Doc did a brillant job with that one.