Turkoglu makes even more sense now

[SacKingZZZ]

Ike is a poor man's SAR. Since we have Hawes and Thompson starting our 3rd big needs to bring defense and shotblocking imo.

We need TALENT. In terms of talent, SAR clone > need. We suck, we are young, a role playing shotblocker is going to mean zilch at the end of the day. Find that 4-5 guys you can build around, form an identity, and then we can patch up the holes.

[Smills91]

I really like Ike, but in no way do I see him doing what Thompson CONSISTENTLY did throughout the ENTIRE season as a ROOKIE.

Ike will be a great 3rd-4th big off the bench IMO.

Well, statistically speaking their basic per 40 #'s were eerily similar as rookies

Jason: 15.8 ppg, 10.5 rpg, 1.6 apg, 0.8 spg, 1 bpg, 49% shooting

Ike: 18 ppg, 9rpg, 1.1 apg, 0.6 spg, 1.2 bpg, 52 % shooting

I think those stats summarize each player pretty well. Production wise, Ike is a better scorer, Jason is a better rebounder. Result? I liked when they played next to each other those last two games. I'd like to see more of it.

Jason played 82 games in 28 minutes/game, LARGE sample size
Ike played 69 games in less than 15 minutes/game, SMALL sample size

Almost ALWAYS the small sample size guys have their stats SUPER-inflated when you extrapolate stats.

Why? Because they CAN NOT sustain that effort over a true 40 minutes.

It's not INDICATIVE of ACTUAL production.

You're not making a fair comparison here.

[SacKingZZZ]

Jason played 82 games in 28 minutes/game, LARGE sample size
Ike played 69 games in less than 15 minutes/game, SMALL sample size

Almost ALWAYS the small sample size guys have their stats SUPER-inflated when you extrapolate stats.

Why? Because they CAN NOT sustain that effort over a true 40 minutes.

It's not INDICATIVE of ACTUAL production.

You're not making a fair comparison here.

It still says that in the time they were on the floor one is basically just as productive as the other. I'm sorry, but 11 ppg and 7 rpg while actually playing 29 mpg are pretty marginal stats. While a small sample size, when Ike got the ball and time, he produced. In fact he produced at such a level that only a fool wouldn't give it a second look. Especially when the beggar is as sad and desolate in the way of surefire star talent as this one.

[Smills91]

Jason played 82 games in 28 minutes/game, LARGE sample size
Ike played 69 games in less than 15 minutes/game, SMALL sample size

Almost ALWAYS the small sample size guys have their stats SUPER-inflated when you extrapolate stats.

Why? Because they CAN NOT sustain that effort over a true 40 minutes.

It's not INDICATIVE of ACTUAL production.

You're not making a fair comparison here.

It still says that in the time they were on the floor one is basically just as productive as the other. I'm sorry, but 11 ppg and 7 rpg while actually playing 29 mpg are pretty marginal stats. While a small sample size, when Ike got the ball and time, he produced. In fact he produced at such a level that only a fool wouldn't give it a second look. Especially when the beggar is as sad and desolate in the way of surefire star talent as this one.

I'm not arguing this under a FALSE premise. You can NOT tell me this is SUSTAINABLE over 40 minutes currently.

[wd707]

Im sorry but if u compare ike to thompson your crazy. Ike is a career back up guy that doesnt produce except in a few meaningless games especially when he knows he can get a new deal.

Thompson has produced since coming into the league. yea It's only been 1 year. But to compare them or say ike is close or on the same level or whatever your saying is crazy.

[SacKingZZZ]

I'm not arguing this under a FALSE premise. You can NOT tell me this is SUSTAINABLE over 40 minutes currently.

I don't know, who the heck can say!? I personally think he can. I can tell you however that the two times Ike played over 40 minutes he put up 32 and 11 in one game and 28 and 13 the next. Ike also had a 27 point game his rookie season.

I would like to make one thing clear however. My interest in bringing back Ike Diogu isn't about the numbers he has produced, can produce, or will produce, it's HOW he produces them. He does it in a way that no other player on this roster can or will. That's why I think he's such a good compliment to Hawes and Thompson even in the most minimal of roles. If nothing else the physicality he brings in a practice setting can be invaluable to both Thompson and Hawes' games.

[SacKingZZZ]

Im sorry but if u compare ike to thompson your crazy. Ike is a career back up guy that doesnt produce except in a few meaningless games especially when he knows he can get a new deal.

Thompson has produced since coming into the league. yea It's only been 1 year. But to compare them or say ike is close or on the same level or whatever your saying is crazy.

Possibly true, but I still think it's worth finding out for sure. Worst case he's a specialist big man to stretch the floor and provide a hard foul or 6 on a given night.

[sackings916]

Ike is a poor man's SAR. Since we have Hawes and Thompson starting our 3rd big needs to bring defense and shotblocking imo.

We need TALENT. In terms of talent, SAR clone > need. We suck, we are young, a role playing shotblocker is going to mean zilch at the end of the day. Find that 4-5 guys you can build around, form an identity, and then we can patch up the holes.

I see your point, but Ike Diogu is not one of the 4-5 guys you build around. And he's not a SAR clone, SAR was more skilled,taller and longer. There's a reason Diogu hasn't been able to crack a rotation up to this point in his career. There's no doubt he has potential but up to this point he hasnt shown he could put it together.

Possibly true, but I still think it's worth finding out for sure. Worst case he's a specialist big man to stretch the floor and provide a hard foul or 6 on a given night.

This just isnt accurate. Diogu hasnt shown he could hit the outside shot consistently, and its one of the reasons he cant get on the court, other than he's a defensive liability because of his size.

[wd707]

I'm all for bringing ike back for a cheap deal. like 2/3 million bucks but to say he's better or close to thompson is crazy.

I dont want him taking any minutes away from thompson at all. He can have thompsons minutes when he's on the bench but thats alll I want to see him have.

[SacKingZZZ]

I see your point, but Ike Diogu is not one of the 4-5 guys you build around. And he's not a SAR clone, SAR was more skilled,taller and longer. There's a reason Diogu hasn't been able to crack a rotation up to this point in his career. There's no doubt he has potential but up to this point he hasnt shown he could put it together.

This just isnt accurate. Diogu hasnt shown he could hit the outside shot consistently, and its one of the reasons he cant get on the court, other than he's a defensive liability because of his size.

Not a chance he was longer than Ike. Ike has a 7'3" wingspan. Reef was a banger at 230 pounds, Ike is far more suited to bang around with the bigs, Reef was a tweener, there is no question Ike can slam around in the frontcourt.

Really? I hardly watched the guy play before Sac (obviously not a lot of playing time) but if there was one thing about Ike I did know it was that he had a pretty good jumper. It was pretty good all the way back at Arizona state. Whether or not somebody has a decent touch from outside can sometimes be determined from their free throw %. Ike's 80% for his career. With the way Ike is able to draw contact it's not too hard to see his offensive potential IMO. defensively? Eh, now that could be a problem. But who isn't it for on this team?

[Smills91]

I'm not arguing this under a FALSE premise. You can NOT tell me this is SUSTAINABLE over 40 minutes currently.

I don't know, who the heck can say!? I personally think he can. I can tell you however that the two times Ike played over 40 minutes he put up 32 and 11 in one game and 28 and 13 the next. Ike also had a 27 point game his rookie season.

I would like to make one thing clear however. My interest in bringing back Ike Diogu isn't about the numbers he has produced, can produce, or will produce, it's HOW he produces them. He does it in a way that no other player on this roster can or will. That's why I think he's such a good compliment to Hawes and Thompson even in the most minimal of roles. If nothing else the physicality he brings in a practice setting can be invaluable to both Thompson and Hawes' games.

I can, it's bastardizing statistics into a non-reality.

[KM44]

So we have strayed WAY off topic, but for the sake of argument, I completely agree with smills. You are comparing apples and oranges, because ike as a rookie didn't play close to the minutes that jason did. And to day 11 and 7 as a rookie is sub-par is just stupid. We all know that those are average numbers for an nba vet, but as a rookie, those are superb numbers!

Really, the argument can be simplified to where these two players are now. Ike is officially a journeyman, and jason is one of the top 10 PF prospects in the league. Talents can be debated all day, but the fact that Ike has been used and let go more than paris hilton is a tell-tale sign that he has some major flaws.

[SacKingZZZ]

I can, it's bastardizing statistics into a non-reality.

No, it's comparing what did happen and what WOULD HAVE happened.

[SacKingZZZ]

So we have strayed WAY off topic, but for the sake of argument, I completely agree with smills. You are comparing apples and oranges, because ike as a rookie didn't play close to the minutes that jason did. And to day 11 and 7 as a rookie is sub-par is just stupid. We all know that those are average numbers for an nba vet, but as a rookie, those are superb numbers!

Really, the argument can be simplified to where these two players are now. Ike is officially a journeyman, and jason is one of the top 10 PF prospects in the league. Talents can be debated all day, but the fact that Ike has been used and let go more than paris hilton is a tell-tale sign that he has some major flaws.

Yes, but you're average NBA vet doesn't have the stigma of being a high first round draft pick and the expectations that go along with that.

And I think that is the argument here, has he been used? I would venture to guess it's most likely the other way around.

[KM44]

I can, it's bastardizing statistics into a non-reality.

No, it's comparing what did happen and what WOULD HAVE happened.

Who said that WOULD happen? It's the predicted outcome if all of the variables stayed the same. I don't know if you live in the same world I do, but the variables very rarely stay the same in reality.

[Smills91]

I can, it's bastardizing statistics into a non-reality.

No, it's comparing what did happen and what WOULD HAVE happened.

There you go again with that "FALSE PREMISE" I was referring to earlier.

[SacKingZZZ]

te]

There you go again with that "FALSE PREMISE" I was referring to earlier.

Yes, equally as false as saying "you can NOT tell me this is SUSTAINABLE over 40 minutes currently." You can't tell me it isn't sustainable either. The truth is it's all an assumption since it can't be proven and never will truly be able to. All you can do is judge based on what I did say, in the time that Diogu was on the floor, his production was very similar to that of Jason Thompson. I'm not saying Jason is > Ike or vice versa, do the math yourself.