Time to Rebuild!!!

Post #1 » by **Vator** » Mon Jun 29, 2009 6:30 pm

Let's blow it up and start over. My opinion has not been a popular one, but I have felt for some time that the organization needed to start from scratch and get what they could of any value for both of those guys while they still could. Now it's too late. We have tried to build a championship caliber team around two injury prone players. In the beginning they didn't have much help and took two very good teams to 7 games only to lose and now, when it would appear that the parts they needed to compliment their talents are in place, they can't be around to reap the rewards. At times, one was healthy the other was not and they still achieved tremendous success. 22 game winning streak, advancing to the 2nd round of the playoffs, and taking the eventual NBA champions to their only 7 game series in they playoffs. If they had been able to stay together I can only imagine the great things they could have accomplished with the role players currently on the roster. Right now they are both severly injured and it is time to close this chapter. Come on Morey, let's turn the page.

Okay...so now what? How do we move forward from here? Our two biggest stars won't get much in return at this point. Do we just let them both expire and go from there? If so I say let Ron walk too and save that money since there really isn't any point of keeping him here to be our best player...that is unless you just want to resemble the Kings of a few years ago.

Post #2 » by **TMU** » Mon Jun 29, 2009 6:32 pm

Next up, T-Mac for MVP. His time has come.

moofs · Post #3 » by **moofs** » Mon Jun 29, 2009 6:34 pm

Sigh. I'm for it. Keep Brooks, Scola, Landry, Lowry, and SurewhynotWafer, then go KPritchard with the rest. In the prodigious words of Steve Ballmer, "draft picks, draft picks, draft picks, draft picks, draft picks, draft picks, draft picks, draft picks, draft picks, draft picks, draft picks, draft picks, draft picks, draft picks, draft picks"

Baller 24 · Post #4 » by **Baller 24** » Mon Jun 29, 2009 6:36 pm

Hmm...McGrady usually turns into superman when Yao goes down, maybe he's got a little more left in him? He is working with Grover. I'm suspecting 26/6/6/46% All-NBA First Team, league MVP

Anyways, I guess the Rubio rumors make more sense now.

Post #5 » by **TMACFORMVP** » Mon Jun 29, 2009 6:37 pm

T-Mac United wrote:Next up, T-Mac for MVP. His time has come.

TMACFORMVP

I'd probably wait for some confirmation that Yao is out before rebuild, but in general I don't think this will ever work out. Rebuilding is probably the best option.

DreamShook34 · Post #6 » by **DreamShook34** » Mon Jun 29, 2009 6:38 pm

Spurs lost one season and got Duncan.. this could be a blessing in disguise.. Lotto here we come!

Post #7 » by **Vator** » Mon Jun 29, 2009 6:39 pm

Yeah but David Robinson wasn't chronically injured either. So they basically got two Allstars back for the next season. They picked up Ginobili and Parker late in the draft.

Part of rebuilding definitely means a few lotto trips.

Post #8 » by **TMU** » Mon Jun 29, 2009 6:40 pm

TMACFORMVP wrote:
T-Mac United wrote:Next up, T-Mac for MVP. His time has come.

TMACFORMVP

I'd probably wait for some confirmation that Yao is out before rebuild, but in general I don't think this will ever work out. Rebuilding is probably the best option.

Rebuilding? Don't forget that we still have Wes Unseld. What rebuilding?

Fine let's rebuild. Where's BowYao when we need his John Wall avatar? BTW, next year's draft is going to be as weak as this past's, if not worse. So, how many lotto trips?

Bow2Yao11 · Post #9 » by **Bow2Yao11** » Mon Jun 29, 2009 6:43 pm

T-Mac United wrote:
TMACFORMVP wrote:
T-Mac United wrote:Next up, T-Mac for MVP. His time has come.

TMACFORMVP

I'd probably wait for some confirmation that Yao is out before rebuild, but in general I don't think this will ever work out. Rebuilding is probably the best option.

Rebuilding? Don't forget that we still have Wes Unseld. What rebuilding?

Fine let's rebuild. Where's BowYao when we need his John Wall avatar? BTW, next year's draft is going to be as weak as this past's, if not worse.

Hahah I'm here TMU.

I say forget about Rubio and tank for Wall man.

It is the perfect opportunity if Yao is really out for the year.

Get it done!

Post #10 » by **TMACFORMVP** » Mon Jun 29, 2009 6:48 pm

DreamShook34 wrote:Spurs lost one season and got Duncan.. this could be a blessing in disguise.. Lotto here we come!

Our team plays too hard, we've tried that and ended up with Battier, lol.

We'll probably win like 50 games, get into the playoffs, and lose in the first round.

Profanity · Post #11 » by **Profanity** » Mon Jun 29, 2009 7:00 pm

Yao Ming for Al Jefferson and Rubio and you are "rebuilt"

Post #12 » by **Vator** » Mon Jun 29, 2009 7:01 pm

Nobody is going to touch Yao at this point.

moofs · Post #13 » by **moofs** » Mon Jun 29, 2009 7:08 pm

Vator wrote:Nobody is going to touch Yao at this point.

If he's out, he's covered by insurance. It's possible his trade value just went up, however weird that is.

Mike12345 · Post #14 » by **Mike12345** » Mon Jun 29, 2009 7:13 pm

Uhm why would we rebuild??

If by rebuild you mean trade tmac, let Yao expire and sign a big free agent sure.

We have all the role players and young studs we need, its just a matter of getting 2 stars to go with them. We can still sign and trade or keep artest, and we still have Mcgradys contract we can package to possibly make a run at amare. Or theres also the option of snagging a big time free agent next year.

Rebuilding means getting back into the playoff picture in a few years, we just need to substitute stars and spend are money wisely

Post #15 » by **Vator** » Mon Jun 29, 2009 7:14 pm

moofs wrote:
Vator wrote:Nobody is going to touch Yao at this point.

If he's out, he's covered by insurance. It's possible his trade value just went up, however weird that is.

No it didn't go up. For example, we probably could have gotten a Bosh/Amare type of talent for him...now it will be a Zach Randoph or something like that...a salary dump guy.

Post #16 » by **TMACFORMVP** » Mon Jun 29, 2009 7:16 pm

It's so odd for a team this talented to thinking about rebuilding. It's sad how much injuries have hurt our team and affected our chances of even getting to the WCF. When we finally get a championship caliber supporting cast, McGrady gets injured for the entire season and is now being run out of Houston. This is the same guy, just the previous season, was an All-NBA player and was the leader of our team that won 22 games in a row. Some underestimate the impact of McGrady during the streak, he averaged:

22 points per game, 5.4 rebounds per game, 6.1 assists per game on 43% shooting from the field, again not efficient, but better than his season FG% would indicate.

Anyways, rebuilding is a tough scenario. It's much easier said than done, trading the entire team for youth and draft picks. If we were to rebuild, I'd assume Brooks, Landry, our three new rookies, Scola, and Lowry would be the keepers. McGrady's value is at a low right now, he's an expiring which is valuable but his contract is large, and so large to the point it effects the value of his expiring. Considering his injury problems and history of a caliber player he is, teams will be vary on taking him on. If we keep him, and he does come back, it also hurts our chances at getting a better draft pick. Same situation with Yao, I'm sure some team might take a chance on him, but not the extent we'd get an equal package back because of his constant injury problems every season.

We have two injury prone "stars," that's value is at an all time low. The best we get back is either:
a.) longer contracts
b.) worse expirings
c.) long contracts and horrible players

Like vator said, the best scenario might be letting both expire, or trade McGrady for another set of expirings, just to avoid further distractions for the team.

We can probably get something solid for Battier, but how much would we really get as a key piece for re-tooling for the future. It'd have to be a larger package with Battier, like including Brooks to get a key piece we could rebuild around, we've tried for Rubio and failed. Who else could we honestly get that could be a player we could potentially build around. And Morey won't let this team tank , so we won't even likely get a high pick in the 2010 draft.

Rebuilding is an option, but there's too many things that need to be done, finding the right deal for McGrady, Yao, and combination of Battier/Brooks or one of young pieces. Also means we let Artest walk, are maybe open to dealing Scola and Lowry. It just seems too much to really retool, and something I don't see Morey doing.

If we do choose that path, I'd think
- we trade McGrady for other expirings, maybe a prospect
- package Battier/Brooks for a player we could potentially build around, or be a 2nd option
- let Yao expire, do not resign Artest/Wafer, and not use our MLE letting our youth play in Budinger, and Taylor with Brooks.

And in 2010 we'd have max capsapce with all our players options not being picked up. But then we're not any better than the other teams that have been retooling for the 2010 FA, because they've been doing it for more than one season. We wouldn't be able to compete with Harris, Lee, Williams, and Lopez in NJ, or the big markets of NY. Wade and LeBron won't come to Houston, Bosh likely wouldn't either. We wouldn't have enough attractive pieces to legitamately bring more than one big FA to this team. Then it'd mean another year of rebuilding retooling for the 2011 FA having had two lottery picks and hopefully more accumulated talent.

It just seems like it's TOO much that we'd have to do since we're built to win now, and something I doubt Morey would actually do at this point in time. The most realistic scenario is testing our bad luck for one more season, McGrady likely getting healthy, and win games, then everyone getting surprised we're winning without Yao like the past 4 season, win maybe even over 50 games, and then lose in the first round.

This team is screwed. Maybe I'm making rebuilding out too be too hard since in my heart I'm opposed to the idea, but if it means having a young and more exciting team that can compete in 3-4 years time, it might be for the best.

moofs · Post #17 » by **moofs** » Mon Jun 29, 2009 7:23 pm

Vator: I'm failing to see how. If teams are in financial trouble, they can now dump a big contract, like a get out of jail free card. Why would we take on, or be expected to take on, a bad contract and help them out twice? McGrady's contract is harder to trade by this premise simply because it's so big (and depending on the situation, possibly not even covered), whereas Yao can reach down to around 12m.

JordansBulls · Post #18 » by **JordansBulls** » Mon Jun 29, 2009 7:31 pm

That Aldridge/Oden deal for Yao looks mightly good now.

spolgar · Post #19 » by **spolgar** » Mon Jun 29, 2009 7:33 pm

Moofs:

The trouble with taking on Yao is that if he heals, whoever took the insurance money may have to give it back. His contract also begins to count against the cap again. Kevin Prichard figured that out all too well with Darius Miles a year or so ago.

Yao Ming has access to the best medical expertise that both sides of the Pacific have to offer. I'm not ready to panic yet. I hope his medical condition is temporary.

moofs · Post #20 » by **moofs** » Mon Jun 29, 2009 7:35 pm

Yes, which was where the Mcgrady comments about not being covered came in. From the sound of it though, he's definitely out for this year, at which point coverage would depend on how his contract is written, of which I have no idea. I'd think that if he came back, it'd only be for one year, or one half year, as he'd be an expiring at the trade deadline. That said, I don't know if it has to be a retirement injury or just a season-ending injury before coverage kicks in, it seems like I've heard of both types being out there.