Wow, if you want to see a PRIME example of arrogance.

[Devilzsidewalk]

Is Tom Powers of the Pioneer Press a delusional KNick homer?

no, just delusional in general

[jpatrick]

I know hoopsworld isn't the best source in the world, but this makes some sense. Rubio didn't mind coming here until we picked Mr. Flynn.

http://www.hoopsworld.com/Story.asp?story_id=13119

Misconceptions About Rubio: The Ricky Rubio situation in Minnesota is not pretty, and over the past few days we have heard a lot of voices chime in about Rubio and what his camp is seeking. When the Minnesota Timberwolves selected both Rubio and Syracuse point guard Jonny Flynn in back-to-back picks last Thursday, things came unglued for the Wolves and HOOPSWORLD spent a considerable amount of time on this subject this weekend. A lot of what we're hearing on Ricky just simply is not true. Here is what's going on with Rubio:
No Problem With 'Sota: The belief that Ricky Rubio is not interested in playing in Minnesota because of climate is the furthest from the truth. Rubio's camp has made it clear that you don't get to pick your team in the draft, that's what free agency is for. Ricky and those close to him are going to be asked the weather question, but that's not weighing into the decision. The primary issue with Minnesota is the log jam they created at point guard, that's it. The reality is David Kahn did a pretty good job selling an idea to Ricky's camp prior to drafting him, and idea most of Ricky's advisors were on board with – until they drafted Jonny Flynn.

Flynn Isn't Happy Either: This is not a one sided issue. Ricky Rubio's camp has simply been the most vocal in its displeasure, but word is Johnny Flynn and his agent Leon Rose were not happy either. Neither player wants to share time and neither player is buying into the "they'd be great together" notion that David Kahn has tried to sell. Both are pure point guards that need the ball to be effective, neither wants to compete with each other.

Europe Not The Option: These reports of European teams with offers, is more about lighting a fire under the Wolves. The complexities of Rubio's buyout make him almost impossible to sign in Europe unless a team really overpays for him. It's not out of the realm of possibility, but let's be real for a minute. Ricky wants to play in the NBA and his camp is not going to do anything rash.

The Knicks Have No Assets: Rumors of the Knicks landing Rubio is a media pipe dream, the Knicks interest in Ricky is lukewarm at best, add the fact that New York has no attractive assets and a deal with the Knicks would require a third team willing to give Minnesota something it seeks. There are a number of interested teams which is why these European offers make so little sense. The Grizzlies were offered an enormous amount of options by team seeking the chance to grab Rubio, that's where the solution for Rubio's camp lies. The hope is after the free agent period opens and salaries get locked in for the 2009-2010 season real talks involving free agents can take place and a solution can be created.

The Waiting Game: This is a waiting game for all parties. The Wolves hope they can end up with Ricky at some point and have said they will wait out Ricky's contract if necessary. Rubio's camp hopes that the constant media pressure will force an action. The answer hear is either Flynn is traded or Rubio is traded. That's the hold up for the Wolves on this and with Summer League getting underway next week, we'll see how motivated the Wolves are to solve the problem, and Rubio's camp will simply have to wait this out.

[Kurosawa]

This is all very clever--all very rational and well thought out. Except there's one problem to this analysis: it assumes that Kahn is feeling any sort of pressure at all to trade Rubio now, this summer, any time this year, or even any time next year. "Media pressure?" These guys are even more full of themselves than I thought if they think the speculative opinions and crap they spew has any real clout. (Where do these guys get all this crap about Flynn being unhappy? There has been absolutely no indication of that, other than from some media hack who made it up to support this fictitious straw man of disgruntlement by the two draft picks.)

Kahn knows what a valuable asset he has in Rubio, and he is under absolutely no pressure to settle for anything less than one of the two alternate outcomes he desires: (a) Ricky Rubio in a Timberwolves uniform, or (b) absolute maximum value from a trade. Let the talking heads yammer all they want. It won't change the fact that David Kahn holds all the cards in this poker game. Let's wait and see who's really bluffing, and who'll fold first.

[duhon-duhon]

no, just delusional in general

Fair enough... I defer to your knowledge on that topic.

[Devilzsidewalk]

Kahn knows what a valuable asset he has in Rubio, and he is under absolutely no pressure to settle for anything less than one of the two alternate outcomes he desires: (a) Ricky Rubio in a Timberwolves uniform, or (b) absolute maximum value from a trade. Let the talking heads yammer all they want. It won't change the fact that David Kahn holds all the cards in this poker game. Let's wait and see who's really bluffing, and who'll fold first.

This is quite true, and also he's going to have the full support of the owner in that Glen Taylor isn't going to rush Kahn to make a trade. Ricky Rubio wants to play in the NBA, this is a fact. That's why it's so ridiculous that people think Rubio staying in Europe forever is some sort of Sword of Damocles over the Wolves' head. The worst that can happen for the Timberwolves is giving away Randy Foye and Mike Miller for nothing. We'll take that gamble. The worst that can happen for Rubio is never getting to play in the NBA - yes I understand many Europeans could care less about that, Ricky Rubio is not one of them however so that's not a worthwhile gamble for him.

The only real choice here is for Ricky Rubio to sign a contract with the Timberwolves, then try to work a trade from there if thats what he wants.

[Esohny]

Kahn knows what a valuable asset he has in Rubio, and he is under absolutely no pressure to settle for anything less than one of the two alternate outcomes he desires: (a) Ricky Rubio in a Timberwolves uniform, or (b) absolute maximum value from a trade. Let the talking heads yammer all they want. It won't change the fact that David Kahn holds all the cards in this poker game. Let's wait and see who's really bluffing, and who'll fold first.

This is quite true, and also he's going to have the full support of the owner in that Glen Taylor isn't going to rush Kahn to make a trade. Ricky Rubio wants to play in the NBA, this is a fact. That's why it's so ridiculous that people think Rubio staying in Europe forever is some sort of Sword of Damocles over the Wolves' head. The worst that can happen for the Timberwolves is giving away Randy Foye and Mike Miller for nothing. We'll take that gamble. The worst that can happen for Rubio is never getting to play in the NBA - yes I understand many Europeans could care less about that, Ricky Rubio is not one of them however so that's not a worthwhile gamble for him.

The only real choice here is for Ricky Rubio to sign a contract with the Timberwolves, then try to work a trade from there if thats what he wants.

You had me sold when you whipped out a Cicero reference.

[john2jer]

The New York forum has turned into repeated screaming of "STFU" and "GTFO". Apparently they're in the anger stage.

[Esohny]

The New York forum has turned into repeated screaming of "STFU" and "GTFO". Apparently they're in the anger stage.

Shocker.

[Paladin55]

The New York forum has turned into repeated screaming of "STFU" and "GTFO". Apparently they're in the anger stage.

I know that I never use that kind of language when posting.

I think a lot of Knicks fans, and those of other teams, think that Kahn and Minny had a chance to have an amazing draft, but at this point in time, they have seemingly done less to improve themselves than they might have. I tend to believe that trades will be made, and if that happens I would reevaluate what your guy did, but at this point I would be somewhat disappointed and confused by what took place on draft night. (I can guarantee you that Knicks' fans would have been going more than crazy if Walsh had done what Kahn did in this draft.

I think that you really needed a coach to be involved in the decision making- he would have been a sounding board for Kahn, and if you do end up with Jackson, you know he would have had something to say about the drafting of two PGs at the 5th and 6th slots. (What he says now is meaningless, since he might be playing politics for a job.) Remember, he was in such a position when the Knicks drafted Rod Strickland in the first round the year after Jackson's ROY season.


Some Cicero quotes to chew on:

The wise are instructed by reason; ordinary minds by experience; the stupid, by necessity; and brutes by instinct. (Where is Kahn on this scale??)

The first duty of a man is the seeking after and the investigation of truth.

Reason should direct and appetite obey.

No one can speak well, unless he thoroughly understands his subject.


Enough said.

[Paladin55]

I'm not sure some of you folks from Lake Wobegon grasp the idea that Rubio probably became disenchanted with Minnesota as soon as he saw Kahn draft Flynn.

From Rubio's perspective, Kahn taking Rubio at 5 and then picking Flynn at 6, is analogous to Kahn marrying one woman and then marrying a second, having not revealed to the first woman that he was a Mormon until after the second marriage.

The draft should have been a big moment for Rubio (and Flynn, for that matter), instead he gets slapped in the face as the team who supposedly "wants" him takes a guy who plays the same position a few minutes later.

The real arrogance is a GM without a coach deciding that he knows Rubio and Flynn can play together in the same backcourt. In that sense, Kahn is not a Mormon, but a moron.

First, kudos for a clever first post.

Second, I think what you may be missing is that it doesn't matter if the two can play together or not. MIN was not going to be a contender next year either way, so they are doing their best to just acquire talent with the highest upside. Kahn has already said that Rubio is the "starting PG whenever he walks through the door" so I think your infidelity issues are voided.

Thanks for the compliment.

Ultimately the coach should decide who plays, not Kahn. If Flynn can compete for the job and play PG in the NBA better than Rubio, why not let Flynn play?? Kahn very possibly took Flynn over Curry because Curry blew off the Minny PG workout, shouldn't he and his coach see Rubio and Flynn side by side and then decide who starts at PG?

Kahn is setting his team up for many problems in the future unless he has some trade plans in mind.

[Paladin55]

Just to inconvenience your life, show me some "clips" of coaches who think its a bad idea.

From Rubio's perspective, Kahn taking Rubio at 5 and then picking Flynn at 6, is analogous to Kahn marrying one woman and then marrying a second, having not revealed to the first woman that he was a Mormon until after the second marriage.

The draft should have been a big moment for Rubio (and Flynn, for that matter), instead he gets slapped in the face as the team who supposedly "wants" him takes a guy who plays the same position a few minutes later.

Since when is taking BPA in a NBA draft analogous to religion. If Rubio has an issue with Flynn, then I am not sure I would want a player who thinks he is entitled to a starting spot.

This was a big moment for Flynn, I can actually produce that clip, because he said so himself. And its up to Rubio, if he wants to go back to Europe and play for a year or two, until he feels like he is good enough to compete for a PG job, than he can come back or play for the wolves.

A big moment until he realizes that he is not playing PG very often and he is struggling at SG. Flynn and Rubio are guys you want to see in the NBA at their NATURAL positions.

I am also sorry if you did not understand my Mormon reference- should have used the word polygamous for you to better get what I was talking about.

[tvwolves7]

Just to inconvenience your life, show me some "clips" of coaches who think its a bad idea.

From Rubio's perspective, Kahn taking Rubio at 5 and then picking Flynn at 6, is analogous to Kahn marrying one woman and then marrying a second, having not revealed to the first woman that he was a Mormon until after the second marriage.

The draft should have been a big moment for Rubio (and Flynn, for that matter), instead he gets slapped in the face as the team who supposedly "wants" him takes a guy who plays the same position a few minutes later.

Since when is taking BPA in a NBA draft analogous to religion. If Rubio has an issue with Flynn, then I am not sure I would want a player who thinks he is entitled to a starting spot.

This was a big moment for Flynn, I can actually produce that clip, because he said so himself. And its up to Rubio, if he wants to go back to Europe and play for a year or two, until he feels like he is good enough to compete for a PG job, than he can come back or play for the wolves.

A big moment until he realizes that he is not playing PG very often and he is struggling at SG. Flynn and Rubio are guys you want to see in the NBA at their NATURAL positions.

I am also sorry if you did not understand my Mormon reference- should have used the word polygamous for you to better get what I was talking about.

I think everyone needs to look outside the box in this kind of set up. I know it is a different but lets take football for example. Did anyone think that the wildcat offense would be successful in the NFL. Well the Dolphins thought outside the box and overachieved this year because of it. I have a feeling, again just a feeling, our team could be the same. It is not the norm but just because that is the case does not mean it will not work. We will have weaknesses because of the set up, but so will the opposing side with two players that are as quick as these two.

[NO-KG-AI]

I would kill to be able to play Chris Paul next to someone else that can handle the ball a lot. Just my dos centavos.

[NetsForce]

I would ignore the opinion of 75% of Knicks fans they don't know what they're talking about. They really think they're going to get Lebron James and Chris Bosh in 2010.

[Esohny]

I would ignore the opinion of 75% of Knicks fans they don't know what they're talking about. They really think they're going to get Lebron James and Chris Bosh in 2010.

Ah ha. I think we've met someone who's been offered David Lee in a sign & trade for Devin Harris and Brook Lopez.

[slinky]

I am also sorry if you did not understand my Mormon reference- should have used the word polygamous for you to better get what I was talking about.

But i think you were a little off on my point. As long as we are explaining things to each other. BPA stands for Best Player Available. Which is what I feel Kahn did. He took the two best players the team thought were available.

Unlike some people, I dont feel like Flynn or Rubio are entitled to anything. What do the wolves owe Flynn or Rubio? For getting drafted in the NBA? For securing Flynn a million more dollars based on rookie salary scale? Flynn could have fallen past Milwaukee. I dont think we owe any player anything. If its true that he and his agent are unhappy, thats too bad. The old cliche still applies: "It's not personal, its business." The wolves need a center and if they feel Flynn/Rubio fits the mold at center, its Flynn/Rubio's job to play center. Thats how the world works.

Same goes for Rubio, I like him, I want him to come over and play but if he wants guaranteed minutes, he can go fly a kite in Spain and come back in 3-4 years when he is championship caliber PG.

Sorry for the small rant, but I am tired of players/agents pouting until they get their way.

[slinky]

Ah ha. I think we've met someone who's been offered David Lee in a sign & trade for Devin Harris and Brook Lopez

Or maybe Wilson Chandler and your choice of Jeffries/Curry for a 1st rounder plus Harris.
"Curry is a top-10 center when he wants to be"

or

Nate Robinson for Brook Lopez

[captvict]

I think Kahn was just as surprised that Ricky was there at 5 as Walsh was.....Walsh had the 5th pick in hand...banking on Curry being there....but decided not to give up Chandler who was required for the pick.....All of a sudden Ricky drops...and kahn and his war room must have been open jawed....thinking .."now what"....oh well..impulse purchases can be costly....but I think Kahn will come out of this somehow after its all said and done, and still have his job....

Kahn should get a suitof for Jonny quicker than he does Ricky...perhaps that will persuade the gifted European...

[Esohny]

The knicks forum has a "What makes Griffin better than Hill?" thread. Honestly, this last week has been like being accused of racism by the KKK.

[old rem]

Go over to the New York board and look at their Rubio discussions. They basically expect us to hand them Rubio on a silver platter. Many of them are basically fabricating tales of how Rubio will escape from the prison that is Minnesota and be rescued by the saintly state of New York.

The MEDIA has reported a deal is in the work. Minnesota is also a small market.

By the way, Dickie V says that Rubio and Flynn in a back court together will get a coach fired.

- Rich

Small market..blah blah blah.

So what? The Wolves have a big regional market and have more talent than the Knicks.

NYK tries to copy Steinbrenner and buy a title...didn't work...but they are trying again. The East's top teams were Orlando and Cleveland...not the Knicks. Just the same...they still think they are the hub of the Universe.