David Lee and Cap Holds

deviljets7 · Post #1 » by **deviljets7** » Wed Jul 1, 2009 7:53 am

There has been a lot of talk about the Knicks' 2010/11 plans and it's possible impact on David Lee's future in New York.

Let's say Lee's salary demands (previously reported to be $10+ million per) are too high, forcing him to come back to the Knicks for the qualifying offer of $2,682,049. In that scenario where he becomes a UFA in July 2010, what would his cap hold be?

I understand this is a long shot, but depending on the cap hold, it would seem possible for the Knicks to sign a Max FA (LeBron?), a nice secondary FA and then take care of Lee with the Bird Exception.

It's an extremely risky strategy by Lee, but he seems to really like playing in NY and the Knicks would be more likely to meet his contract demands if it didn't greatly affect their cap plans in 2010.

bgwizarfan · Post #2 » by **bgwizarfan** » Wed Jul 1, 2009 1:02 pm

If Lee's QO is $2,682,049, then his cap hold would be double that, $5,364,098

killbuckner · Post #3 » by **killbuckner** » Wed Jul 1, 2009 1:29 pm

I know it would never happen but I love the idea that Lee could sign a 1 year 1 million dollar contract- but the Knicks would retain bird rights on him. So next offseason the KNicks could sign a Lebron type FA and then go back and use their bird rights on lee to go over the cap and overpay him for his dedication.

MilMinMan · Post #4 » by **MilMinMan** » Wed Jul 1, 2009 3:03 pm

bgwizarfan wrote:If Lee's QO is $2,682,049, then his cap hold would be double that, $5,364,098

I thought the cap hold would be 3x the amount of his previous salary.

http://members.cox.net/lmcoon/salarycap.htm#Q30

Post #5 » by **Scoot McGroot** » Wed Jul 1, 2009 3:34 pm

MilMinMan wrote:
bgwizarfan wrote:If Lee's QO is $2,682,049, then his cap hold would be double that, $5,364,098

I thought the cap hold would be 3x the amount of his previous salary.

http://members.cox.net/lmcoon/salarycap.htm#Q30

Which puts NY in the position of only being able to sign one max free agent in 2010 with just keeping Curry, Jeffries, Lee, Gallo, Chandler, Hill, and Douglas. 7 guys. That's it.

bgwizarfan · Post #6 » by **bgwizarfan** » Wed Jul 1, 2009 4:34 pm

MilMinMan wrote:
bgwizarfan wrote:If Lee's QO is $2,682,049, then his cap hold would be double that, $5,364,098

I thought the cap hold would be 3x the amount of his previous salary.

http://members.cox.net/lmcoon/salarycap.htm#Q30

this year yes.... he was asking about 2010 if Lee accepted his QO

MilMinMan · Post #7 » by **MilMinMan** » Wed Jul 1, 2009 7:04 pm

bgwizarfan wrote:
MilMinMan wrote:
bgwizarfan wrote:If Lee's QO is $2,682,049, then his cap hold would be double that, $5,364,098

I thought the cap hold would be 3x the amount of his previous salary.

http://members.cox.net/lmcoon/salarycap.htm#Q30

this year yes.... he was asking about 2010 if Lee accepted his QO

Woops, I need to read more.

Esq-4 · Post #8 » by **Esq-4** » Wed Jul 8, 2009 2:07 am

wait, so i'm a little confused. his cap hold if he took the QO would be 2x his rookie scale contract?

the reason I ask is b/c then can't the Knicks agree (wink wink) to take care of him w/ a plus 10 mil contract NEXT year by signing him AFTER they use the rest of the cap? I was thinking of that by reading this thread, and then save the Redd example in the link.

I get that taking the QO is a 30% raise over the fourth year salary, so a 30% to what Lee made last season. But where does that land him on the chart?

Because if he really only counts for $5.3, that is an extra 3 or 4 mil to play with.

Problem is why take the risk if you are Lee.

Post #9 » by **Luv those Knicks** » Wed Aug 5, 2009 8:22 am

Esq-4 wrote:wait, so i'm a little confused. his cap hold if he took the QO would be 2x his rookie scale contract?

the reason I ask is b/c then can't the Knicks agree (wink wink) to take care of him w/ a plus 10 mil contract NEXT year by signing him AFTER they use the rest of the cap? I was thinking of that by reading this thread, and then save the Redd example in the link.

I get that taking the QO is a 30% raise over the fourth year salary, so a 30% to what Lee made last season. But where does that land him on the chart?

Because if he really only counts for $5.3, that is an extra 3 or 4 mil to play with.

Problem is why take the risk if you are Lee.

You're right. This is a wink/wink situation that does somewhat circumvent the cap. It only happens with late first round picks / second round picks whos salaries are lower as RFAs, so their cap holds are comparativly lower. Cap holds aren't based on skill, they are based on salary. When a #29 pick (lee) or a #43 pick (redd), their cap holds are smaller, even if they are 9, 10, 12, 14 whatever million dollar players.

If Lee would have taken the QO, NY could retain his rights for 5.4 million, sign a max free agent, then sign Lee to say 5 years, 50 million (I think that's overpaying, but it's doable). Cap Holds are designed to prevent teams from circumventing the cap, but because Lee was the 29th pick (late first round), his salary is comparativly small so his cap hold is comparativly small.

Blake Griffin for example, his final QO season is 9.4 million, so at 200% he'd be an 18.8 million cap hold in 2014 if he remains unsigned that long.

But in the end, it probably won't matter. NY is negotiating a 1 year, 8-9 million dollar deal with Lee, so his cap hold will be 150% of that contract and NY almost certainly will renounce their bird rights to him.

Even if he'd taken the QO, it's not clear that NY would have kept his rights. NY could look at the free agent market in 2011 too when Curry/Jeffries come off the books. ALso if NY spends the MLE on Sessions, then a 5.4 millino cap hold on Lee could put NY out of contention for a max free agent. I've looked at the numbers and right now it's Lee (QO) or Sessions, but not both. It looks like NY will spend some 2010 money on Sessions and they will use Lee as a 1 year rental.