Boozer won't opt out

[carrottop12]

The tribune is reporting that the tax share is likely to be 3 million this year. Add in the contracts of Eric Maynor at an addition 1 million which is guaranteed and that's another million on dollar for dollar tax. Then add in that the Jazz will only have 12 players under contract. Well you have to have at least 13 players under contract so you are looking at at least one more contract. If that contract is for Price it's another million dollars, which intern becomes 2 million dollars.

It also doesn't address whether or not the Jazz decide anyone from the summer league team including second round draft pick Goran Sutton.

[JazzJuice]

Can we just trade Boozer to the Knicks for their 2011 1st round pick?!

[DelaneyRudd]

No, you can not have 2 consecutive first round picks in the future traded away.

[The Sheik]

The tribune is reporting that the tax share is likely to be 3 million this year. Add in the contracts of Eric Maynor at an addition 1 million which is guaranteed and that's another million on dollar for dollar tax. Then add in that the Jazz will only have 12 players under contract. Well you have to have at least 13 players under contract so you are looking at at least one more contract. If that contract is for Price it's another million dollars, which intern becomes 2 million dollars.

It also doesn't address whether or not the Jazz decide anyone from the summer league team including second round draft pick Goran Sutton.

Maynor is already included in that 3 mil, and we are currently at 11 players. If we do not re-sign Millsap we will likely let Lyde, Sutton and a host of others duke it out for the last roster spot.

[delsol650]

LOL, will trade you Mags and Speedy's expiring contract for him. it works.

[carrottop12]

The tribune is reporting that the tax share is likely to be 3 million this year. Add in the contracts of Eric Maynor at an addition 1 million which is guaranteed and that's another million on dollar for dollar tax. Then add in that the Jazz will only have 12 players under contract. Well you have to have at least 13 players under contract so you are looking at at least one more contract. If that contract is for Price it's another million dollars, which intern becomes 2 million dollars.

It also doesn't address whether or not the Jazz decide anyone from the summer league team including second round draft pick Goran Sutton.

Maynor is already included in that 3 mil, and we are currently at 11 players. If we do not re-sign Millsap we will likely let Lyde, Sutton and a host of others duke it out for the last roster spot.

The 3 million dollars in tax share is the money I am saying the Jazz would get back from other teams if they were under the cap. I don't think I understand what Maynor has to do with that.

So if Millsap leaves, this is what the Jazz roster looks like for sure going into next season.

Andrei Kirilenko
Deron Williams
Carlos Boozer
Mehmet Okur
Matt Harpring
Kyle Korver
CJ Miles
Ronnie Brewer
Kosta Koufos
Eric Maynor
Kyrylo Fesenko

That's eleven players. Here is the depth chart at that point.

PG: Williams/Maynor
SG: Brewer/Korver
SF: Kirilenko/Miles/Harpring
PF: Boozer/Koufos
C: Okur/Fesenko

That leaves us one player short of the NBA minimum for a roster. We are extremely thin at PF and C, so likely the Jazz will sign a big man. So do the Jazz bring in a new guy like Lyde or Sutton, or do you bring back Collins who knows the system? Collins is certainly going to be more expensive, which pushes the cap even higher.

So lets say the Jazz do bring in a big guy whether it's Collins or Sutton or Augustine or whoever. Then look and see the Jazz are only 2 deep at PG, and the second in command is a kid who hasn't ever played and NBA game. Jerry Sloan always runs with 3 PG's, so do you bring in another rookie like Kruger because he will only make $350,000 next year, or do you bring in a vet. That's upwards of another million dollars, which in turn is double.

The Jazz are in a very peculiar situation.

[UTJazzFan_Echo1]

I think we should re-sign Millsap and see how things pan out during the season before we try and move anyone. No reason to freak out and trade everyone away if you can make a run at the title. Should be interesting to see what the Jazz do but I am interested in seeing this team healthy.

If Boozer is traded sometime soon though I want Rip or Tayshaun from Detroit. Anything less from them is no good. If the Bobcats are interested I would like to see either Okafor, Wallace, Diaw, or Bell in Utah. Probably 2 of the 3 in the deal throwing in CJ or Korver to make it work. I would love to see Kaman here in Utah but we would have to work out some sort of three way deal to get him since the Clippers don't want any bigs.

[erudite23]

Bat....you lost me there. I don't know if you're confused or if you just confused me, but I did not folow your math.

Theoretically the Jazz are looking at a 72m dollar payroll right now, with a 1m hold for Paul Millsap. If the tax is set at 69m, that is 3m over the tax. Right now, there are only 9 teams with payrolls of 69m or higher, and most are between 69 and 73 (only 3 teams have a higher payroll than 73). As is, there are 9 tax payers and total tax dollars of about 36m total. With 21 non tax paying teams, that leaves a total tat reimbursement of about 1.7m dollars to each team. That is peanuts compared to what it has been in the past, when each team has recieved at least 5 million.

Now, this is obviously before FA, and there are still a few teams that might cross over into the tax area and a few teams that are above the tax already who will be adding even more salary. So that number might climb a bit, but I wouldn't plan on it getting too much higher.

So anyhow, the Jazz stand to lose that 1.7 by being tax payers, plus paying a dollar for dollar tax on anything they pay above the tax. If Millsap gets a deal starting at 8m in the first year, that will put the Jazz at 79m in payroll, or 10m over the tax line. This means that the tax implications of signing him to a deal versus not signing him to a deal are 7m + 1.7 (or whatever the Jazz share of tax proceeds would end up being). Even rounding up substantially for that number, it is no more than 10m in penalties to keep Millsap just for this year. The only way I can think that you might have gotten to 17 is if you counted his first year salary twice.


And all of this is even if we can't somehow find a taker for someone like Harpring's final year without bringing any salary back that could save us some big time green. We would have until the trade deadline to work such a deal out.

[carrottop12]

From what I heard, and I believe it was on the Radio last year, can't remember which show, but they were saying that if you are over the luxury tax limit there are 3 different penalties.

1. You pay a dollar for dollar penalty for being over.
2. You don't get money back from other teams that are over the cap.
3. You lose out on a share of the merchandise sales revenue that is shared through out the league on jersey sales, hat sales, clothing sales etc. etc.

So for the first penalty, and I am going off of what the Tribune says in their blog...

...plus would lose $3 million in distribution payments.

So that is 3 million right there.

Now I know the Jazz have a $1,000,000 qualifying offer on the table for Paul which is included in their estimated $72,000,000 pay roll. Take that one million dollars away, and the Jazz are still at $71,000,000 which is still over the tax threshold projected to be at just below 70 million.

So if the Jazz pay Millsap 8 million a year, they have to pay the additional 8 million dollar penalty.

So, so far they have the 3 million dollar share loss according to the tribune, plus the 8 million for his dollar for dollar penalty. That's 11 million already.

Then, if the report that I heard is correct, the Jazz lose out on some of the merchandise/advertising revenue share, which I heard is upwards of 8 million dollars.

So that's 11 million, plus an additional 8 million. That's 19 million dollars which is actually more then 17 of my original projection. Those are what really hurt the teams. It's definitely possible I am wrong about the additional merchandise revenue loss, but I am pretty sure I remember hearing that.

[outerspacefella]

Sadly enough, Jazz should not match Millsap if Boozer (or Kirilenko) can't be traded somehow for two or more expiring contracts that later could be traded for picks, cash and other future considerations.
It's too much money to lose. Boozer already screw the Jazz. Now it's about time to live with it.
The only positive arising from Boozer's optin and Millsap departure is that Koufos/Fesenko probably will be playing regular rotation minutes... and I like that because I think Koufos has a chance to be our future PF, and Fesenko has a chance to be a tough center for us along with Okur. We just can't delay our big youngsters developement anymore...
Just MHO.

[Smills91]

Sign and trade Millsap to OKC for the PHX first round pick

That's awful wishful thinking on your part that OKC does that. They have enough cap to offer Millsap what he wants without sacrificing the pick.

[LEIF]

with Detroit signing Charlie V today, does that make the Rip for Booz deal pretty unlikely as they now have their PF locked up....so where does Boozer go? Miami ?

[Smills91]

Sadly enough, Jazz should not match Millsap if Boozer (or Kirilenko) can't be traded somehow for two or more expiring contracts that later could be traded for picks, cash and other future considerations.
It's too much money to lose. Boozer already screw the Jazz. Now it's about time to live with it.
The only positive arising from Boozer's optin and Millsap departure is that Koufos/Fesenko probably will be playing regular rotation minutes... and I like that because I think Koufos has a chance to be our future PF, and Fesenko has a chance to be a tough center for us along with Okur. We just can't delay our big youngsters developement anymore...
Just MHO.

My Kings could come in and save you guys an awful lot of money here. We have upwards about 8 million in cap space that could be used to absorb some salary. However, that's the asset going out.

I'm partial to Kirilenko, personally. I think he'd be a GREAT fit for our roster. But if you wanted to move Boozer instead, I'd listen.

Of course Boozer will give you the better return, but I'd do either of these:

1)
Beno(4)/Nocioni(3) - $13million
for
AK47(2)/Harpring(1) - ~ $21 million

Saves you guys 8 million dollars NOW to re-sign Millsap, and you get two semi-productive players who'd actually fit in well to Sloan's system to boot.

OR

2)
Boozer(1)/Miles(3) - 16-17 million
for
Kenny Thomas(1) - 8.5 million

Also save the Jazz around 8 million to re-sign Millsap. Of course Kenny Thomas isn't special, but he is expiring and to alleviate future salary concenrs. He's solid enough to be a decent back-up 4 to Millsap in the Jazz system.

[schneiderjazz]

My Kings could come in and save you guys an awful lot of money here. We have upwards about 8 million in cap space that could be used to absorb some salary. However, that's the asset going out.

I'm partial to Kirilenko, personally. I think he'd be a GREAT fit for our roster. But if you wanted to move Boozer instead, I'd listen.

Of course Boozer will give you the better return, but I'd do either of these:

1)
Beno(4)/Nocioni(3) - $13million
for
AK47(2)/Harpring(1) - ~ $21 million

Saves you guys 8 million dollars NOW to re-sign Millsap, and you get two semi-productive players who'd actually fit in well to Sloan's system to boot.

OR

2)
Boozer(1)/Miles(3) - 16-17 million
for
Kenny Thomas(1) - 8.5 million

Also save the Jazz around 8 million to re-sign Millsap. Of course Kenny Thomas isn't special, but he is expiring and to alleviate future salary concenrs. He's solid enough to be a decent back-up 4 to Millsap in the Jazz system.

I think we can get better deals for both of those packages, Smills. AK will be a lot more valuable next year and Boozer along with Harpring or Korver can probably get us some value instead of just cap space.

[UTJazzFan_Echo1]

Sign and trade Millsap to OKC for the PHX first round pick

That's awful wishful thinking on your part that OKC does that. They have enough cap to offer Millsap what he wants without sacrificing the pick.

Sarcasm. I think we either let Millsap walk and play Boozers games or we trade Boozer and make Millsap the PF of the future for the Jazz. Either way the Jazz HAVE to decide who they value more and who they think is the future of the franchise along with Williams.

[erudite23]

From what I heard, and I believe it was on the Radio last year, can't remember which show, but they were saying that if you are over the luxury tax limit there are 3 different penalties.

1. You pay a dollar for dollar penalty for being over.
2. You don't get money back from other teams that are over the cap.
3. You lose out on a share of the merchandise sales revenue that is shared through out the league on jersey sales, hat sales, clothing sales etc. etc.

So for the first penalty, and I am going off of what the Tribune says in their blog...

...plus would lose $3 million in distribution payments.

So that is 3 million right there.

Now I know the Jazz have a $1,000,000 qualifying offer on the table for Paul which is included in their estimated $72,000,000 pay roll. Take that one million dollars away, and the Jazz are still at $71,000,000 which is still over the tax threshold projected to be at just below 70 million.

So if the Jazz pay Millsap 8 million a year, they have to pay the additional 8 million dollar penalty.

So, so far they have the 3 million dollar share loss according to the tribune, plus the 8 million for his dollar for dollar penalty. That's 11 million already.

Then, if the report that I heard is correct, the Jazz lose out on some of the merchandise/advertising revenue share, which I heard is upwards of 8 million dollars.

So that's 11 million, plus an additional 8 million. That's 19 million dollars which is actually more then 17 of my original projection. Those are what really hurt the teams. It's definitely possible I am wrong about the additional merchandise revenue loss, but I am pretty sure I remember hearing that.

I'm almost positive that is not the case. I mean...I can't definitively say that its not, but I'm pretty sure I would have heard about it somewhere if it were. I'll do some checking around tomorrow to find out for sure.

Also, I don't know what the Trib would be reporting on this year's tax distribution, because its not set yet. Nor will it be until the end of next season. Team's have the entirety of the year to play with their payroll before they are assessed tax penalties. This means that the Trib would have to have a crystal ball to know what it will be for 09-10. 3m, imo, is a pretty high considering the reluctance of most owners in this market, but not impossible. Right now, as I said, its closer to half that, but will get a bit higher as teams like the Lakers and Cavs add more to their payroll.



And, Smills, we don't need to take your bad contracts back in order to offload our players. Despite his exorbitant salary, AK is still an excellent player and an integral part of the team. Ben Udrih is one of the worst contracts in the NBA right now. No dice there. And Boozer for Kenny Thomas is laughable.....all, of course, depending on the level of desperation that the ownership group feels to cut costs. No one can really know that, I'll concede, but given the tune that has been coming out of the FO and Greg's own mouth, I would say they are not happy to be paying the tax, but are capable of making it work if need be. In other words, no fire sale here. Sorry.