Gerald Green - A defensive specialist?

John Locke · Post #1 » by **John Locke** » Thu Jul 2, 2009 1:03 pm

I just want to get this out there. I think that in a few years time Gerald Green could become a very good defensive specialist. I see his future as a Rich Man's Bruce Bowen meets James Posey...even Trevor Ariza.

Green is long, quick and athletic. He can jump with the best of them. After a few years, he'll be better at reading offensive players and be better at executing defensive schemes.

I think he could become a very good on the ball defender, aswell as a good weakside shotblocker.

When he came in the League he was expected to be a shot-creator and an offensive-minded player. He was just focusing on the wrong side. His future lies in defense.

On the offensive end of the floor Green is already capable of filling his role. He was a good catch-and-shoot player, even when playing with the Celtics. He elevates high on his jumper and has a smooth stroke. That's it. He doesn't need anything else.

If we somehow get the chance of signing him on the cheap for 4 years or even 5 I'd say do it.

Celts17Pride · Post #2 » by **Celts17Pride** » Thu Jul 2, 2009 1:08 pm

In a few years Gerald Green won't even be in the league. Let it go.

John Locke · Post #3 » by **John Locke** » Thu Jul 2, 2009 1:11 pm

I want to make it clear that I was never a Gerald Green fan per se.

cisco · Post #4 » by **cisco** » Thu Jul 2, 2009 1:18 pm

Celts17Pride wrote:In a few years Gerald Green won't even be in the league. Let it go.

Exactly.

Gerald Green a defensive specialist? LOL

Dave_From_NB · Post #5 » by **Dave_From_NB** » Thu Jul 2, 2009 1:20 pm

My prediction is that with another 4 years of coaching he'll be one of the better players in the summer league.

Dirty Water · Post #6 » by **Dirty Water** » Thu Jul 2, 2009 1:35 pm

Dave_From_NB wrote:My prediction is that with another 4 years of coaching he'll be one of the better players in the summer league.

Another classic from Dave from NB!

GuyClinch · Post #7 » by **GuyClinch** » Thu Jul 2, 2009 1:43 pm

Green is long, quick and athletic. He can jump with the best of them. After a few years, he'll be better at reading offensive players and be better at executing defensive schemes.

Green's lack of defensive ability is well documented and his physical skills were exaggerated. Just from a pure numbers standpoint Green's vertical pre-draft was around 40 inches like that of say Dahntay Jones.

But length wise for an african american he is not particularly "long" with a standing reach of 8'8". His agility time wasn't particularly eye popping - he was physically weak. And he seems to lack lateral quickness.

But that's just the tip of the iceberg. Guys with lessor physical skills can still be excellent defenders as long as they have fire and passion for defense, know the game well and have some kind of knack for it. GG seems to lack in all these aspects as well.

http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Gerald-Green-287/

GG is a great leaper with a smooth J. We all thought that was enough to do well in the NBA. But we were wrong.

Pete

recruiter · Post #8 » by **recruiter** » Thu Jul 2, 2009 2:41 pm

When Gerald can spell "specialist," we'll talk about him returning to the association.

TheOGJabroni · Post #9 » by **TheOGJabroni** » Thu Jul 2, 2009 2:49 pm

I really liked Gerald Green's potential and I'm not gonna lie, I haven't thought about him as a defensive specialist but I have definitely thought about wanting him on this team rather than TA. Of course first off I would like to see if a pairing of TA and Scal or another of our expiring contracts could net us a real role player to help us, but if we pick up Grant Hill and Sheed this offseason along with a re-signed Marbury, I wouldn't mind seeing a TA for Green swap if the (Mavs?) approved it. Simply because TA has overstayed his welcome here I feel like, who knows what Gerald could do with an appropriate coaching staff around him - specifically defensively, and he can hit the open J. He may not be a role player, but neither is Tony Allen, at least he shouldn't be on this Celtic team anyway. So why not take the chance?

BillessuR6 · Post #10 » by **BillessuR6** » Thu Jul 2, 2009 3:47 pm

John, you need to put down whatever you are drinking!

Let`s be serious here. Gerald Green doesn`t understand the game of basketball. Not on offense and certainly not on defense! I expect him to be out of the league in a year or two...

greenbeans · Post #11 » by **greenbeans** » Thu Jul 2, 2009 3:49 pm

Heroin - A headache remedy?

Post #12 » by **ParticleMan** » Thu Jul 2, 2009 4:22 pm

Green has terrible lateral quickness, lacks fast twitch, and has zero anticipation. The only thing really athletic about his is his vert, but everyone got so caught up in that that they didn't realize he isn't a very good athlete overall.

We don't have a roster spot to waste on that guy.

eloper · Post #13 » by **eloper** » Thu Jul 2, 2009 4:44 pm

Green is capable of playing quality man to man defense, Mavs fans will tell you that when it came to simply guarding a guy 1 on 1 he did a perfectly fine job. He struggles with guys a lot stronger than him (Pierce/LeBron/Carmelo murder him), and quick small guys (Jamaal Crawford), but he's done a good job guarding guys of similar body types (Kobe/TMac etc).

I'll be the first to point out all of Gerald's weaknesses, but he is CAPABLE of being a solid defender. He still struggles with team defense (being on 4 different teams in 4 years hasn't helped), and falls for pumpfakes like Tony Allen, but the ability to stay in front of his guy is there.

As you're resident Gerald homer, I watched him all year play for the Mavs, and unfortunately he still has a lot of the same weaknesses:
Team Defense
Shot Selection
Ball Handling
Finishing with contact/Drawing contact

He hasn't looked nearly as lost this year with the Mavs as he has in the past, and while his team defense wasn't amazing, it was improved. The biggest thing stopping Gerald from being a productive player in this league is still a misunderstanding of what he is. Coaches keep expecting Gerald to be a guy who can create for himself, and that just isn't the case. In Minny and Dallas, he was handed the ball and told to go score, and because of his awful handle and inability to finish in traffic he was awful at that. He took way too many contested pull up mid range jumpers (the least efficient shot in all of basketball), and thus often found himself out of games after shooting poorly. If a coach uses Gerald to do nothing but hit shots off of screens, get out on the break, and be a spot up shooter in the half court, he can be an effective player in the league. He should be doing the same things Ray Allen does in the Celtics system (obviously he'll never be as effective as Ray, but he can play that role).

He played with Kidd in preseason and was basically doing nothing but shooting off screens/shooting open jumpers and he looked fantastic. Then he started getting inconsistent playing time to start the season, and as any shooter will tell you it's hard to shoot consistently if you're getting inconsistent minutes (which has been shown statistically by the APBRmetrics community). It'd be nice to see him getting some consistent playing time, in the right role, whether that be in the NBA, NBDL, or Europe.

I hope the Mavs bring him back, the coaching staff seemed to like him, everything that came out about him in the media was positive, and he seemed to be making some progress. He's a good kid, seems to be genuinely working his ass off, he just needs some direction.

TheOGJabroni · Post #14 » by **TheOGJabroni** » Thu Jul 2, 2009 4:56 pm

GeraldGreen5 wrote:Green is capable of playing quality man to man defense, Mavs fans will tell you that when it came to simply guarding a guy 1 on 1 he did a perfectly fine job. He struggles with guys a lot stronger than him (Pierce/LeBron/Carmelo murder him), and quick small guys (Jamaal Crawford), but he's done a good job guarding guys of similar body types (Kobe/TMac etc).

I'll be the first to point out all of Gerald's weaknesses, but he is CAPABLE of being a solid defender. He still struggles with team defense (being on 4 different teams in 4 years hasn't helped), and falls for pumpfakes like Tony Allen, but the ability to stay in front of his guy is there.

As you're resident Gerald homer, I watched him all year play for the Mavs, and unfortunately he still has a lot of the same weaknesses:
Team Defense
Shot Selection
Ball Handling
Finishing with contact/Drawing contact

He hasn't looked nearly as lost this year with the Mavs as he has in the past, and while his team defense wasn't amazing, it was improved. The biggest thing stopping Gerald from being a productive player in this league is still a misunderstanding of what he is. Coaches keep expecting Gerald to be a guy who can create for himself, and that just isn't the case. In Minny and Dallas, he was handed the ball and told to go score, and because of his awful handle and inability to finish in traffic he was awful at that. He took way too many contested pull up mid range jumpers (the least efficient shot in all of basketball), and thus often found himself out of games after shooting poorly. If a coach uses Gerald to do nothing but hit shots off of screens, get out on the break, and be a spot up shooter in the half court, he can be an effective player in the league. He should be doing the same things Ray Allen does in the Celtics system (obviously he'll never be as effective as Ray, but he can play that role).

He played with Kidd in preseason and was basically doing nothing but shooting off screens/shooting open jumpers and he looked fantastic. Then he started getting inconsistent playing time to start the season, and as any shooter will tell you it's hard to shoot consistently if you're getting inconsistent minutes (which has been shown statistically by the APBRmetrics community). It'd be nice to see him getting some consistent playing time, in the right role, whether that be in the NBA, NBDL, or Europe.

I hope the Mavs bring him back, the coaching staff seemed to like him, everything that came out about him in the media was positive, and he seemed to be making some progress. He's a good kid, seems to be genuinely working his ass off, he just needs some direction.

Good post. I really liked Gerald when he was here and wish him nothing but the best. I hope he (or coaches as you put) figure out exactly what he needs to do to be successful in this league.

John Locke · Post #15 » by **John Locke** » Thu Jul 2, 2009 5:13 pm

Just remember this.

I think a lot of people thought of Trevor Ariza as a player who would never play a meaningful role on a championship team. Gerald is what? 23 years old?

GuyClinch · Post #16 » by **GuyClinch** » Thu Jul 2, 2009 6:17 pm

I think a lot of people thought of Trevor Ariza as a player who would never play a meaningful role on a championship team. Gerald is what? 23 years old?

And just who are "these" people. Ariza was well regarded around NYC after his rookie season. <g> Kedrick Brown was a young guy with tons of athleticism and it never did him much good. If anything K. Brown was a more athletic then Green.

eloper · Post #17 » by **eloper** » Thu Jul 2, 2009 6:48 pm

GG has a lot more in common with JR Smith than he does Kedrick Brown. Kedrick was an awful jumpshooter, had 0 drive to be a basketball player, and the epitome of a lazy waste of talent. A totally different basketball player, even in his strengths. The ONLY similarity in their games is the athleticism, but Kedrick used his in an entirely different way.

Agree on Ariza though, he's been well regarded and productive since he entered the league, poor comparison. If you want to compare Gerald to a success story, JR Smith is the way to go. The biggest thing separating JR and Gerald to me right now is JRs ability to handle the ball, and JR being in a system that fits his game. Gerald won't ever be as good as JR is right now, particularly the JR that comes in and does his best job of imitating Kobe for 10 minutes at a time, but he can be the JR from a few years ago that did basically nothing but bomb semi open 3s and finish in transition.

BillessuR6 · Post #18 » by **BillessuR6** » Thu Jul 2, 2009 7:05 pm

JR Smith? Smith is only 4 months older than GG!

So, comparing them actually makes sense. It shows how far away GG is from contributing to a basketball team...

TheOGJabroni · Post #19 » by **TheOGJabroni** » Thu Jul 2, 2009 7:07 pm

The thing with Ariza and Green, I always wondered why Ariza he would slip to the second round. He seemed like he had many good tools to be a solid NBA player. But with Green, while originally I was thrilled he slipped all the way to us in the late teen's (when he was projected to go as high as 3 if I recall correctly), it didn't take long to understand why so many passed on him.

Cyclical · Post #20 » by **Cyclical** » Thu Jul 2, 2009 7:15 pm

John, you must have posted this after a night of hard Icelandic drinking my man. As been pointed out before Gerald may be able to stay with his man just fine but being a specialist is something we would have seen after 5 years years in the league. Also, I think you meant a poor man's Bowen, not a rich man's Bowen.

Ariza's calling card was always defense - ever since he came in the league. Gerald has not shown he can understand team defensive schemes, switching, understanding when to go under and over a pick, and has shown sub-par lateral movement. He may improve his D but it's very unlikely he'll ever be a specialist.

If you're right and he does, I'll eat my words...

On another note, how's your team doing?