Where is GUMP when I need him???

[enetric]

Hey GUMP!

I havent posted in a while...but if you are out there...a question for you.

Say NJ were to trade for Boozer getting rid of Boone who has a qualifying offer for next summer...giving up Najera who has a deal beyond this year...and whatever else...

how would that effect us in free agency next summer in theory? Forget if Utah does the deal...or whatever. Just talk cap for sec.

Nets have all that cap room..Boozer is a UFA. Can the Nets in theory sign two maxed guys other than Boozer...and then in theory also resign Boozer after that and go over the cap since he would be our own fa????

And..how are you??!!

-E

[vincecarter4pres]

I don't see FGump on the boards much lately, at least ours, but I did post a question on the CBA/Business RElated Board a couple days ago and within a few hours it was answered, by no other then Gump himself.

BTW, I am not 100% sure, more like 97 or 96%, but if we trade for Boozer, he commands a max caphold next offseason.
There are 2 ways to get rid of it, one if to deal with him first and sign him, the 2nd is to renounce his Bird Rights, meaning we can no longer offer him a dime more then any other team, in length of contract, starting salary or raise %'s.

Like I said, I'm not 100% sure on this, but I'm damn close, hope that helped.

[enetric]

OK...see if you can get him to come here would you?

But..if you are right...my next question is....

Say we renounce him. By what date? is it before we can begin talking to other teams free agents on July 1st? Or, can we renounce his rights after that?

If its after the 1st...I talk to the top tier fa's try to build a team through all these guys at once...take my chances that we can keep him and land our two other targets. I mean whats the worst that happens? We lose him for nothing? SO what? We would only be giving up guys that do not matter anyway. Isnt that worth the shot if we can do what I am thinking of here?

[vincecarter4pres]

As far as I know, you have to renounce him on June 30th, the night before the FA period begins.
It is set up that way to specifically block the circumventing of the CBA by teams in order to monopolize the free agency period.

Honestly, Gump or Larry Coon, one of those guys would know much better then me, but like I said, this is what I have been told by other people that have a firm grip on the CBA.


For the question of would I trade for Boozer if it was for scraps?
I think ultimately I would. I would also honestly say it puts us right above .500 and into the playoffs, so if Boozer skates after the season anyway and we don't get one of the blue chip guys, it could really backfire in our face though.
One year of playoffs as a likely 1st round bounce, 2nd round at best for a big time downgrade in our draft position, I don't know, it's risky.
I know I'm kind of dancing around the question, but it's a really tough one to answer on so many levels. I mean if you even just want to look at Boozer, I'm a fan, and I think he gets highly underrated as an impact player and as one of the top PF's, but he's also been injury prone lately and overall, and I don't think he is worth a max deal for 6 years by any stretch of the imagination.
He's also a terrible shotblocker and in turn, a very subpar help defender.
He's actually an underrated man to man and post defender and overall about average, but even then, when he is giving up a lot of size and length, as was the case vs. the Lakers in round one, as is the case a lot of the time, he becomes somewhat foul prone, if not just for the horrible reffing that takes place in the association.

This is a tough one to answer.

If by some chance he would sign an extension, which I believe can only be this year plus an additional 3 seasons, I would do it in a heartbeat, even if it was a max money extension.
But, with a a scenario where we rock him for one year, then hope for the best in free agency and possibly have to pay him a max deal for 6 seasons, I think I have to say thanks, but no thanks.

[BK+LBJ]

I personally think we should trade for Boozer for a couple of reasons. One, it's basically a one year tryout for both parties to see if it's a fit and it wouldn't cost the Nets much. Two, Thorn talks about having the money to sign two max deals next year but we do have a lot of garunteed contracts right now that we will need to trade away before we can do that and trading Najara and Boone ect are perfect for that plan. We are also talking about putting the GS first round pick next year in the deal. I knew we had that but I can't find anywhere if there is any potection on that pick. Someone told me it's top 5 protected for GS which means if GS sux as much as we think they will we may not even get that pick for 2 years. Anyone know about that?

Obvously our goal would be landing Lebron next summer and it would be a bonus if a guy like Bosh came along. But I don't want the Nets to turn into the Knicks and put the hope of the next decade all on Lebron's decision. We do have a very soild young nucleus and the addition of Boozer would make us more then just a competitive team. Also think about with Boozer we can possible beat the Cavs in a playoff series making it all the more applying for Lebron to come here.

I think it's dumb to hope we can get a top 5 pick not even knowing how nexts years draft will look. We have more then enough young talent we need a Vet leader. Bring in Boozer!!!!!!!

[NetsForce]

The pick is:

Top 14 protected - 2011
Top 11 protected - 2012
Top 10 protected - 2013

And if not conveyed by 2013 will end up being the Warriors 2013 & 2015 2nd round draft picks.

[vincecarter4pres]

The pick is:

Top 14 protected - 2011
Top 11 protected - 2012
Top 10 protected - 2013

And if not conveyed by 2013 will end up being the Warriors 2013 & 2015 2nd round draft picks.

God, Thorn is a frickin' genious...

[SteveNets15]

I'm starting to doubt Utah will even get a pick if they trade Booz because every GM knows Utah wants him out and he's a one year rental.So the first team that does offer a pick no matter who the players are they're gonna take it.Unless they find a team thats going to save them a lot of money, of course they'll jump all over that first.Lets go RT make it happin cappin.

[NetsForce]

Tony Battie + Jarvis Hayes + Keyon Dooling for Boozer + Harpring works... Immediately saves the Jazz $6.5 million and they get three useful role players to solidify their bench (as of right now the Jazz have no bench, just look at that roster...)

[lurkingobeiscity]

OK...see if you can get him to come here would you?

But..if you are right...my next question is....

Say we renounce him. By what date? is it before we can begin talking to other teams free agents on July 1st? Or, can we renounce his rights after that?

If its after the 1st...I talk to the top tier fa's try to build a team through all these guys at once...take my chances that we can keep him and land our two other targets. I mean whats the worst that happens? We lose him for nothing? SO what? We would only be giving up guys that do not matter anyway. Isnt that worth the shot if we can do what I am thinking of here?

Impossible to use all your cap on other free agents and then sign your own. Just doesn't work cap-wise. If we were to do that trade for Boozer we would either have to renounce Boozer to sign two max cap players or we would only be able to sign one max free agent with Boozer.

[vincecarter4pres]

Tony Battie + Jarvis Hayes + Keyon Dooling for Boozer + Harpring works... Immediately saves the Jazz $6.5 million and they get three useful role players to solidify their bench (as of right now the Jazz have no bench, just look at that roster...)

That doesn't work under the CBA.
Williams has a caphold until he's signed.
Once he's signed we're just about a mill under the cap if it's 58 again this year.
Boozer and Harpring add up to almost 19 mill, meaning Utah still has to take back a minimum of about 4.8 mill in the deal, maybe 5.6 if we use all our left over cap space, also meaning we rrenounce the MLE and any other exceptions before doing the trade.

[NetsForce]

Tony Battie + Jarvis Hayes + Keyon Dooling for Boozer + Harpring works... Immediately saves the Jazz $6.5 million and they get three useful role players to solidify their bench (as of right now the Jazz have no bench, just look at that roster...)

That doesn't work under the CBA.
Williams has a caphold until he's signed.
Once he's signed we're just about a mill under the cap if it's 58 again this year.
Boozer and Harpring add up to almost 19 mill, meaning Utah still has to take back a minimum of about 4.8 mill in the deal, maybe 5.6 if we use all our left over cap space, also meaning we rrenounce the MLE and any other exceptions before doing the trade.

I really have no logical explanation as to what I was smoking when I proposed that trade.

But that chicken cheese steak was great.

[vincecarter4pres]

RU Fat Sandwich FTW!

[BK+LBJ]

VC4PRES, that draft pick is useless its lottery protected for GS for about 3 years. We wont get crap from it i would trade it for a bag of balls.

[vincecarter4pres]

VC4PRES, that draft pick is useless its lottery protected for GS for about 3 years. We wont get crap from it i would trade it for a bag of balls.

In my eyes, that pick is basically guranteed a 1st rounder.
It may take a while to get, but it still holds some value.
GSW gets an extended Amar'me without giving up the farm, like is being talked about, they have a good team with a mix of youth and vets and a lot of playoff experience.
Barring multiple season ending injuries, they are at least a perrenial 7th or 8th seed in a quickly declining West.
Even if not, depending on moves they make, or don't, they will be a perrenial 9th to 14th pick lotto team, which again, gets it done.
Worse comes to worse, they are horrible for years upon years and we get back to back top 5 2nd rounders, which are basically better then bottom 5 1st rounders because the salary that comes attached to them is non=guaranteed and peanuts and you can take either a bigger risk for the homerun with that type of pick, or you pick up a really solid instant impact role player.

Beyond this, the pick will likely hold immense value to GSW in the upcoming months/seasons, so I have a strong feeling we get something of higher value back from them in exchange for the pick, or even a solid player in exchange for Najera's terrible contract and the pick.
You have to understand what a truly moronic move Mullin pulled when he traded us that pick.
GSW isn't allowed to include a future 1st round pick in ANY trade with ANY team until they either recoup that pick from us, or we recieve it.
That's huge.
What if Phoenix wants a future pick back in the Amar'me trade and they literally consider it a deal breaker because GSW refuses to add Curry or even Azubuike?
What if they make the trade for Amar'me, but at the deadline another trade opportunity comes their way that requires a future 1st by the other team because they've used most of their cheap young assets in the Amar'me deal?

Believe me the pick has some decent value.

[Hansel]

I don't want him. It sucks because he's a legitimately good player who is almost definitely getting dealt for cheap, but I just don't think it fits with the idea of building a championship team. The way I see it is we're either going to become elite by getting lucky in 2010 or by nailing our next draft pick and having the current talent develop. Boozer in 2009 doesn't fit into any of that for me. He's not worth ruining the chances of a top-5 pick in what is pretty much guaranteed to be a strong draft. If we want him that badly, go after him in FA next summer when we can more clearly see who can be signed alongside him. LeBron/Bosh etc is obviously no guarantee at all. There pretty much is no chance of it happening IMO, even though we can dream. The prudent thing to do would try and tank this season, add a stud prospect to Brook/Harris/TWill/Lee, and try and develop it that way. That youth core puts us in a good position, and THEN we still have the opportunity to go big in 2010 FA. With Boozer in 09, we lose the high lotto in the next draft and aren't guaranteed a thing in 2010 FA. Even if Boozer was to sign an extension I wouldn't be for it. He'll be there next summer.

[enetric]

OK...see if you can get him to come here would you?

But..if you are right...my next question is....

Say we renounce him. By what date? is it before we can begin talking to other teams free agents on July 1st? Or, can we renounce his rights after that?

If its after the 1st...I talk to the top tier fa's try to build a team through all these guys at once...take my chances that we can keep him and land our two other targets. I mean whats the worst that happens? We lose him for nothing? SO what? We would only be giving up guys that do not matter anyway. Isnt that worth the shot if we can do what I am thinking of here?

Impossible to use all your cap on other free agents and then sign your own. Just doesn't work cap-wise. If we were to do that trade for Boozer we would either have to renounce Boozer to sign two max cap players or we would only be able to sign one max free agent with Boozer.

OK. Something I am still not getting. Say we have Harris, T.Williams signed. And a cap hold from Boozer plus a handful of the remaining guys who are all team options...lets say...

Yi
Brook
Lee
CDR

Walk me through what number you get and how much cap space we still have heading into the summer with two contracts for TWill and Harris a hold from Boozer and whatever effect these other 4 have for us on July 1st of next summer. I am still getting a small fortune available...how about you?

I am not sure how the 4 team option guys affect the cap but even counting them in...I still get around 25 mil under the cap...so again I say...what am I not seeing?

Someone please break it down. What hold # would Boozer have...add to TWill projected year two number...and Harris. Then lets figure out the other 4 and how they matter to free agency.

I am thinking if Yi doesnt perform this season...we could decide not to hold his rights and then decide after July 1 what we want to do. I mean if his 4 mil is the difference between landing an extra superstar or not...I would think we would take that chance...but lets assume we want him. Dump the rest....Najera, Dooling Boone and Sean Williams.

[enetric]

VC4PRES, that draft pick is useless its lottery protected for GS for about 3 years. We wont get crap from it i would trade it for a bag of balls.

In my eyes, that pick is basically guranteed a 1st rounder.
It may take a while to get, but it still holds some value.
GSW gets an extended Amar'me without giving up the farm, like is being talked about, they have a good team with a mix of youth and vets and a lot of playoff experience.
Barring multiple season ending injuries, they are at least a perrenial 7th or 8th seed in a quickly declining West.
Even if not, depending on moves they make, or don't, they will be a perrenial 9th to 14th pick lotto team, which again, gets it done.
Worse comes to worse, they are horrible for years upon years and we get back to back top 5 2nd rounders, which are basically better then bottom 5 1st rounders because the salary that comes attached to them is non=guaranteed and peanuts and you can take either a bigger risk for the homerun with that type of pick, or you pick up a really solid instant impact role player.

Beyond this, the pick will likely hold immense value to GSW in the upcoming months/seasons, so I have a strong feeling we get something of higher value back from them in exchange for the pick, or even a solid player in exchange for Najera's terrible contract and the pick.
You have to understand what a truly moronic move Mullin pulled when he traded us that pick.
GSW isn't allowed to include a future 1st round pick in ANY trade with ANY team until they either recoup that pick from us, or we recieve it.
That's huge.
What if Phoenix wants a future pick back in the Amar'me trade and they literally consider it a deal breaker because GSW refuses to add Curry or even Azubuike?
What if they make the trade for Amar'me, but at the deadline another trade opportunity comes their way that requires a future 1st by the other team because they've used most of their cheap young assets in the Amar'me deal?

Believe me the pick has some decent value.

You give out good team and playoffs like candy. I can see us NEVER getting that pick until its the two seconds with ease. GS has had talent and has sucked before. Just because you add this guy or that one does not make it all go POOF it worked.

[jeff1624]

VC4PRES, that draft pick is useless its lottery protected for GS for about 3 years. We wont get crap from it i would trade it for a bag of balls.

In my eyes, that pick is basically guranteed a 1st rounder.
It may take a while to get, but it still holds some value.
GSW gets an extended Amar'me without giving up the farm, like is being talked about, they have a good team with a mix of youth and vets and a lot of playoff experience.
Barring multiple season ending injuries, they are at least a perrenial 7th or 8th seed in a quickly declining West.
Even if not, depending on moves they make, or don't, they will be a perrenial 9th to 14th pick lotto team, which again, gets it done.
Worse comes to worse, they are horrible for years upon years and we get back to back top 5 2nd rounders, which are basically better then bottom 5 1st rounders because the salary that comes attached to them is non=guaranteed and peanuts and you can take either a bigger risk for the homerun with that type of pick, or you pick up a really solid instant impact role player.

Beyond this, the pick will likely hold immense value to GSW in the upcoming months/seasons, so I have a strong feeling we get something of higher value back from them in exchange for the pick, or even a solid player in exchange for Najera's terrible contract and the pick.
You have to understand what a truly moronic move Mullin pulled when he traded us that pick.
GSW isn't allowed to include a future 1st round pick in ANY trade with ANY team until they either recoup that pick from us, or we recieve it.
That's huge.
What if Phoenix wants a future pick back in the Amar'me trade and they literally consider it a deal breaker because GSW refuses to add Curry or even Azubuike?
What if they make the trade for Amar'me, but at the deadline another trade opportunity comes their way that requires a future 1st by the other team because they've used most of their cheap young assets in the Amar'me deal?

Believe me the pick has some decent value.

You give out good team and playoffs like candy. I can see us NEVER getting that pick until its the two seconds with ease. GS has had talent and has sucked before. Just because you add this guy or that one does not make it all go POOF it worked.

While it is true that Golden State makes the playoffs every 15 years a so, I think it's somewhat possible they could end with a pick between 10-14 a couple years from now. Who knows maybe all the young talent they have finally mesh and for their sake, Don nelson might be gone too. While I wouldn't hold my breath, I'm not discarding the possibilty of having that pick in 2013.

[enetric]

I don't want him. It sucks because he's a legitimately good player who is almost definitely getting dealt for cheap, but I just don't think it fits with the idea of building a championship team. The way I see it is we're either going to become elite by getting lucky in 2010 or by nailing our next draft pick and having the current talent develop. Boozer in 2009 doesn't fit into any of that for me. He's not worth ruining the chances of a top-5 pick in what is pretty much guaranteed to be a strong draft. If we want him that badly, go after him in FA next summer when we can more clearly see who can be signed alongside him. LeBron/Bosh etc is obviously no guarantee at all. There pretty much is no chance of it happening IMO, even though we can dream. The prudent thing to do would try and tank this season, add a stud prospect to Brook/Harris/TWill/Lee, and try and develop it that way. That youth core puts us in a good position, and THEN we still have the opportunity to go big in 2010 FA. With Boozer in 09, we lose the high lotto in the next draft and aren't guaranteed a thing in 2010 FA. Even if Boozer was to sign an extension I wouldn't be for it. He'll be there next summer.

I am OK with this thinking too. I am just getting round about answers as to what is plausible or not if we did do Boozer the way I am saying. Take back nothing that effects our cap space other than Boozer...and use it silmutaneously to get rid of the remaining pieces that could effect us anyway.

I dont see how having a cap hold for Najera, Dooling, Boone and SWAT makes more sense than Boozer but we see ourselves being able to add two big tickets with guys on here telling me oh no...dont lose Dooling. Something is being overlooked. Maybe its by me...but dear lord...can we focus. (Not you Hansel).

I would like to hear some concrete #''s with the guildine I gave before. And if it comes down that we could in theory add two maxed guys ON TOP of Lopez, Harris and Boozer next summer...then TO GOD DAMN HELL WITH next years draft!!!!!!

I am all for the losing....but if you told me...I can have Boozer plus two other studs......I will risk our god damned position in the draft as that Harris missing a crap load of games...even Boozer...would not be a shock.

And before anyone says...well then why would you want him....please sense my frustration with not being able to get a god damn MATH driven answer before you do!!!!!!!!!!!

This has been a message from Enetric, directed, by Enetric, produced by Enetric and staring Enetric. That is all....have a good day....