retiring for Harp?

@ndrew · Post #1 » by **@ndrew** » Fri Jul 3, 2009 12:27 pm

I just saw an article in the wiretap, that Harp is thinking about retiring? Do you think that FO could push him for that to clear the cap spase?
May be it can help us to retain Millsap (for the right price) and then make a trade before to deadline to avoid lux tax...

UTJazzFan_Echo1 · Post #2 » by **UTJazzFan_Echo1** » Fri Jul 3, 2009 1:55 pm

I'm not sure what happens when a player retires due to medical issues as far as money is concerned...but I know I will be very sad if Harp isn't back next season. He is one of my all time favorite Jazz players and I still love to watch him play. I wish him the best and hopefully he can get to a point where he can play another season or two but if not I thank him for everything he has done for the Jazz organization and wish him and his family the best possible retired life.

Hikari · Post #3 » by **Hikari** » Fri Jul 3, 2009 1:56 pm

I don't think the Jazz will ever trade Harp. However, if he retires the Jazz will trade his contract to dump his salary. But it will be for nothing but future picks.

qman · Post #4 » by **qman** » Fri Jul 3, 2009 1:58 pm

If it is a medical retirement his contract could come off the books (like Darius Miles at Portland). Or he could just agree to a buyout. Or be traded and then agree to a buyout. All in all sad news for Harpring but good news for the Jazz.

Fido · Post #5 » by **Fido** » Fri Jul 3, 2009 2:24 pm

For the record, here is Larry Coon's summary on retired players and how it impacts the salary cap:
"Any money paid to a player is included in team salary, even if the player has retired...It is at the team's discretion (or as the result of an agreement between the team and player) whether to continue to pay the player after he has retired.

There is one exception whereby a player can continue to receive his salary, but the salary is not included in the team's team salary. This is when a player is forced to retire for medical reasons and a league-appointed physician confirms that he is medically unfit to continue playing. There is a waiting period of one year following the injury or illness before a team can apply for this salary cap relief. If the waiting period expires mid-season (on any date prior to the last day of the regular season), then the player's entire salary for that season is removed from the team's team salary. For example, in March 2003 the Knicks were allowed to remove Luc Longley's entire 2002-03 salary from their books (and since the luxury tax is based on the team salary as of the last day of the regular season, the Knicks avoided paying any tax on Longley's salary). This provision can also be used when a player dies while under contract.
...
Teams are not allowed to trade for disabled players and then apply for this salary cap relief. Only the team for which the player was playing when he was disabled may request this relief.

If a player retires, even for medical reasons, his team does not receive a salary cap exception to acquire a replacement player. "

@ndrew · Post #6 » by **@ndrew** » Fri Jul 3, 2009 3:05 pm

it's preaty obvious, that you can get a buyout deal and his salary won't count against the cap. This is not my question. My question is that do you think that FO can push Harp for retirement, sacrfacing deep bench?

Racer X · Post #7 » by **Racer X** » Fri Jul 3, 2009 3:54 pm

I just Matt Harpring would not play with my emotions like that. The thought of Harp retiring is too good to be true.

Post #8 » by **DelaneyRudd** » Fri Jul 3, 2009 4:05 pm

Retirement won't bring cap relief, but he can be traded for cash considerations and a conditional 2nd rounder; like what what was done with Philly to get them under the luxury tax.

Fido · Post #9 » by **Fido** » Fri Jul 3, 2009 9:23 pm

From the sound of it, the FO isn't going to have to push him to retire.

Post #10 » by **StocktonShorts** » Fri Jul 3, 2009 9:42 pm

DelaneyRudd wrote:Retirement won't bring cap relief, but he can be traded for cash considerations and a conditional 2nd rounder; like what what was done with Philly to get them under the luxury tax.

Perhaps not cap relief, but the Jazz may have an insurance policy that will help their actual bottom line.

carrottop12 · Post #11 » by **carrottop12** » Fri Jul 3, 2009 9:54 pm

Yeah, the athlete insurance covers huge sums of the money if they don't play at all. That's why teams are able to trade injured players in the first place.

Fido · Post #12 » by **Fido** » Sun Jul 5, 2009 2:40 pm

According to Larry Coon, no way the Jazz can get salary cap relief for Harpring's injury. It must not be tied to a specific injury at a specific time like is required for the 1 year waiting period. Oh well.... :cry:

slambamJazz · Post #13 » by **slambamJazz** » Tue Jul 7, 2009 9:21 am

So if Harping agrees to a 1 million dollar buyout of contract the jazz would save about 5.5 million in salary cap releif.

Post #14 » by **StocktonShorts** » Tue Jul 7, 2009 2:15 pm

slambamJazz wrote:So if Harping agrees to a 1 million dollar buyout of contract the jazz would save about 5.5 million in salary cap releif.

And why exactly would Matt Harpring want to do that?

hoops4life · Post #15 » by **hoops4life** » Tue Jul 7, 2009 3:39 pm

If he retires, he doesn't get paid. It just counts against our cap. IF he is going to retire, he might as well agree to a small buyout to get some money and help the team.

Post #16 » by **StocktonShorts** » Tue Jul 7, 2009 3:56 pm

hoops4life wrote:If he retires, he doesn't get paid. It just counts against our cap. IF he is going to retire, he might as well agree to a small buyout to get some money and help the team.

Not entirely true. It's actually up to the team whether to pay him or not. I guess they could threaten to pay him nothing, but in that case Harpring just wouldn't officially retire, right?

hoops4life · Post #17 » by **hoops4life** » Tue Jul 7, 2009 5:03 pm

I wouldn't pay them personally. If they aren't playing they shouldn't get paid for it.

maccca32 · Post #18 » by **maccca32** » Wed Jul 15, 2009 5:07 am

Here is a website for salaries that is alot easier to read than most.

Website http://www.storytellerscontracts.info/index.html

Salaries http://www.storytellerscontracts.info/r ... laries.htm
Exceptions http://www.storytellerscontracts.info/r ... laries.htm

"2009-10 is partially guaranteed for $2,500,000, however meeting certain performance standards during the life of the contract can make the full amount guaranteed"

http://www.shamsports.com/content/pages ... s/jazz.htm

"Fourth year is somewhat unique - it is fully guaranteed UNLESS Harpring misses a) either 47 games combined during the 2006-07, 2007-08 and 2008-09 seasons due to injuries to his right knee, or b) if he misses 35 games in the 2008-09 season only due to injuries to his right knee. If either of these happens, the final year is only $2.5 million guaranteed"

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/s ... ayerId=306

06-07..UTH..77..2..25.5..4.6..1.3..11.6
07-08..UTH..76..0..18.1..3.2..1.1..8.2
08-09..UTH..63..1..11.0..1.9..0.4..4.4

He missed 5 in 06-07, 6 in 07/08 and 19 in 08/09 = Total 30 games missed. So 09-10 salary of $6.5M is fully guaranteed. It would have been nice to have the option given the current cap situation.

I see Chucky Atkins has only a partial guarantee of $760,00 for his salary of $3,480,000 in 09-10.

the_warden · Post #19 » by **the_warden** » Thu Jul 16, 2009 3:33 am

hoops4life wrote:If he retires, he doesn't get paid. It just counts against our cap. IF he is going to retire, he might as well agree to a small buyout to get some money and help the team.

A $1M buyout is unrealistic. Ben Wallace talked about retiring a lot, too. Phoenix bought him out for $10M and some thought it was a bit of a steal.

His contract is guaranteed; he could sit there, be hurt, and never play and make his full salary. You're not going to get him to just give you all that money for free. At best, maybe buy him out for $4M and take the savings you can get.

the_warden · Post #20 » by **the_warden** » Thu Jul 16, 2009 3:36 am

hoops4life wrote:I wouldn't pay them personally. If they aren't playing they shouldn't get paid for it.

Missing the forest for the trees.

First, it would obviously leave a foul taste in Harpring's mouth if you don't give him anything. Second, it probably hurts your team's image in the eyes of prospective players and agents. Third, your fan base will think you are cheap and disloyal.