Artest/Ariza Info

[shortodom]

Ariza's a great energy role player, he'll get at least one steal every game. Shoots the 3 good and make alot of circus layup shots. You'll love his hustle and he'll get you guys highlights to talk about for a couple of days, but highlight dunks and steals are his strengths for sure.
Well if you guys could leave a bit of Ron info i'd appreciate it, his good stuff How does he do guarding KG,Lebron and Pierce? how good is his 3 if he's wide open?

[TMACFORMVP]

Artest has a lot of misconceptions about his game, mainly his defense, in which he's considered elite, when in reality, he's average and below average man to man. But since you said only list the good things heh, he does do a good job against the bigger SF's with less quickness like Melo, and adds toughness on both ends of the court. His toughness has always given Bron some problems offensively, though the last game, our full team defensive strategy was to run to the paint when Bron used a screen, essentially packing the paint and forcing Bron to beat us from the outside, in which he missed nearly all his perimeter shots.

Artest WIDE open is one of the best shooters in the league, when his feet are set, his shot is almost money. The PROBLEM is with that is Artest generally prefers to take off balance three pointers which greatly reduces his accuracy. It's the reason why he goes on stretches where he goes 0-15 from three (not exaggerating, check his game logs, for 2 games straight he took 15 threes and missed all of em), and can go 10-20 for the next two game stretch.

He's good in the post, but again, he rarely uses that aspect of his game, as he settles for the outside shot more often than he should. I'll admit, I'm not the biggest Artest fan (and not because he left, I've been adamant about this all season long), but there are a lot of misconceptions about his game that I can go on.

- Strong post game
- Great three point shooter when his feet are set
- Solid against bigger threes

Those are his strengths, but there's always another side. I'll be truthful and say I think Ariza is a better fit on the Lakers, and Artest a better fit on the Rockets due to the strength of both team supporting casts, but Artest if can buy into that system or at least not too detrimental to the team offensively/defensively, then the Lakers are the clear favorite for the title and barring injuries should be able to repeat as NBA champs.

[aznkillabeezZz]

Artest is a great defender, very quick off his feet, but he takes alot of gambles and gets beat by his man because of gambling for a steal. He's a streaky shooter... There are lots of times he chucks shots up and misses, and other times where he chucks shots and it goes in. He played his best during the playoffs, although he had poor shooting and defensive nights. He showed alot of heart and will to win, and he is a very underrated passer, when he chooses to be unselfish. I remember him having 9 assists against brandon roys Blazers in the playoffs. He had the highest assists, even more than roy, as a small forward!, thats how good he can be. But his selfishness always kicks in somewhat. And remember his football pass to aaron brooks for the alley oop vs the lakers... You need skill to pull that off!

I think hes a better fit for the lakers because he'll flourish with the other players. Or he might not, because he needs alot of the ball, and tends to overdribble when hes confused. Alot of times during the season, he'd be the selfish player you hate, that tries to do everything and forces a shot up and misses. Another negative is his size, hes very powerful but he's not that lanky and tall, so rebounding is at a disadvantage with other players taller than him.

But theres no way to judge him the way he played with us. Because he'll have a totally different role for the Lakers. I think he'll be better at the lakers, since lakers have other tall players that can rebound. And i'm sure that he's the 3rd 4th scoring option in the lakers, so we'll see how he does. And hes not the most eloquent player out there. But i think kobe can direct him well.

[RayStats34]

Artest still brings toughness can score it his feet are set, play defense on small forwards, You guys are going to have to force him to play in the post.

I talked to former coach Eric Musselman and he said that Ron Artest never stays within an offense and has lapses where he will not listen to anybody and do his own thing.

[LApwnd]

I will give that Ariza is a "hustle" player but I"m sorry I do no think he can be efficient without other stars to take the pressure off of him. I dont really care where he went with Artest now but I dont understand why Hou. signed him, w/o Tmac/Yao for significant time next season Trev will probably be looked at 2nd maybe even 1st option on Offense, you guys are going to be horribly disappointed.

[RayStats34]

I will give that Ariza is a "hustle" player but I"m sorry I do no think he can be efficient without other stars to take the pressure off of him. I dont really care where he went with Artest now but I dont understand why Hou. signed him, w/o Tmac/Yao for significant time next season Trev will probably be looked at 2nd maybe even 1st option on Offense, you guys are going to be horribly disappointed.

He has not been givin a chance to be a star yet. It could be like when Mcgrady played on toronto as a third option and then givin a chance to be number 1 he blew up.

All Ariza needs to do is work on that jumpshot, he's already a good defender, can drive the ball, if he gets a little midrange game......Watch out!

[LApwnd]

I will give that Ariza is a "hustle" player but I"m sorry I do no think he can be efficient without other stars to take the pressure off of him. I dont really care where he went with Artest now but I dont understand why Hou. signed him, w/o Tmac/Yao for significant time next season Trev will probably be looked at 2nd maybe even 1st option on Offense, you guys are going to be horribly disappointed.

He has not been givin a chance to be a star yet. It could be like when Mcgrady played on toronto as a third option and then givin a chance to be number 1 he blew up.

All Ariza needs to do is work on that jumpshot, he's already a good defender, can drive the ball, if he gets a little midrange game......Watch out!

Tmac showed ALL of those skills you mentioned early in his career, he just didn't get the PT, I dont believe Ariza will ever develop the kind of handles and shot creation needed to be a "star" at best just a spot up shooter and slasher once Yao comes back but until then, I honestly believe he's going to really struggle next season.

[texasholdem]

I will give that Ariza is a "hustle" player but I"m sorry I do no think he can be efficient without other stars to take the pressure off of him. I dont really care where he went with Artest now but I dont understand why Hou. signed him, w/o Tmac/Yao for significant time next season Trev will probably be looked at 2nd maybe even 1st option on Offense, you guys are going to be horribly disappointed.

Scola and Brooks are our top 2 scoring options. they both did pretty well against your Lakers.
Ariza third. Battier fourth.

[LApwnd]

I will give that Ariza is a "hustle" player but I"m sorry I do no think he can be efficient without other stars to take the pressure off of him. I dont really care where he went with Artest now but I dont understand why Hou. signed him, w/o Tmac/Yao for significant time next season Trev will probably be looked at 2nd maybe even 1st option on Offense, you guys are going to be horribly disappointed.

Scola and Brooks are our top 2 scoring options. they both did pretty well against your Lakers.
Ariza third. Battier fourth.

are you guys playing us the whole year? That was 1 playoff series, I do think Scola will be your #1 but Brooks wont be enough of a consistent #2 and I'm sure expectations will be high of Ariza...but good luck to your team, I really do feel for you guys with Yao but for Tmac best to just dump his salary and get ready for 2010.

[RayStats34]

I will give that Ariza is a "hustle" player but I"m sorry I do no think he can be efficient without other stars to take the pressure off of him. I dont really care where he went with Artest now but I dont understand why Hou. signed him, w/o Tmac/Yao for significant time next season Trev will probably be looked at 2nd maybe even 1st option on Offense, you guys are going to be horribly disappointed.

Scola and Brooks are our top 2 scoring options. they both did pretty well against your Lakers.
Ariza third. Battier fourth.

are you guys playing us the whole year? That was 1 playoff series, I do think Scola will be your #1 but Brooks wont be enough of a consistent #2 and I'm sure expectations will be high of Ariza...but good luck to your team, I really do feel for you guys with Yao but for Tmac best to just dump his salary and get ready for 2010.

I think Brooks will be an better than he was last year...he will be a good number 2 option remember last year he started the season in the D league and ended up leading us to 7 games with the lakers not forgetting some of the good games he had against the Blazers. Ariza I believe will be a goo number three option with his slashing and I bet he is going to be working on his jumpshot this summer.....anyway thanks for wishing us good luck.

[snaquille oatmeal]

Artest still brings toughness can score it his feet are set, play defense on small forwards, You guys are going to have to force him to play in the post.

I talked to former coach Eric Musselman and he said that Ron Artest never stays within an offense and has lapses where he will not listen to anybody and do his own thing.

I think he will be less prone to lapses in the triangle offense because he wont have control of the ball, the only way he will get the ball is if he stays in the system. Ron is not going to be the initiator. that job goes to Fisher, Farmar, Odom, Walton or Kobe. Ron will have to put himself in the system in order to touch the ball. that is just how the system works, if Ron decides to go on his own he will get a chance after he has made himself available within the system not before. I expect him to take till after the All Star game to feel somewhat confortable in LA because it takes that long to learn the triangle offense.

[RayStats34]

Artest still brings toughness can score it his feet are set, play defense on small forwards, You guys are going to have to force him to play in the post.

I talked to former coach Eric Musselman and he said that Ron Artest never stays within an offense and has lapses where he will not listen to anybody and do his own thing.

I think he will be less prone to lapses in the triangle offense because he wont have control of the ball, the only way he will get the ball is if he stays in the system. Ron is not going to be the initiator. that job goes to Fisher, Farmar, Odom, Walton or Kobe. Ron will have to put himself in the system in order to touch the ball. that is just how the system works, if Ron decides to go on his own he will get a chance after he has made himself available within the system not before. I expect him to take till after the All Star game to feel somewhat confortable in LA because it takes that long to learn the triangle offense.

I understand what the triangle offense does.....Im just saying Ron Artest hardly ever follows the offensive scheme...he has mental lapses where he will take the ball and try and do his own thing.Im not saying he does it all the time but he does it about 5-6 possessions a game.

[KobeFarmarEra]

That's why they pay Phil Jackson the big bucks.

[RayStats34]

That's why they pay Phil Jackson the big bucks.

Phil Jackson being coach does not mean anything to Artest.....He did this for Rick Adelman a coach he loves.....Ron Artest (in his mind) is the best player on the planet. I feel its gonna get worse because Phil Jackson is one of those coaches that does not like to call timeouts and have his team figure things out themselves.Phil Jackson will have to call more timeouts with Artest to make sure he knows what the plan is.

[KobeFarmarEra]

Houston has a terrible offensive system and Artest was forced into a role that he will never have to play in LA.

The triangle will exploit his size advantage. He'll get more open shots than he has ever seen in his entire career.

Comparing Adelman to Phil Jackson is pretty laughable man. The timeouts won't be needed with Fisher and Kobe on the court since they are basically player/coaches at this point in their careers. Believe me, Artest won't out-Alpha male Kobe Bryant in the offense. Not if he actually wants to stay on the cout and be a significant contributor to a title. He will do what Phil/Kobe says and won't be that difficult. Give all your effort to the defensive side of the ball and the offense will come to you. I guarantee you Artest will not be expecting to take 15 shots a game like everywhere else he's been in his career.

[dingclancy]

Here is my response to baller24 on the PC thread:

Yes, I guess I did have to look it up myself. Here's a sample:


(3PM/3PA/3P%)

Code: Select all

3   7   .429
2   6   .333
4   7   .571
2   4   .500
4   9   .444
1   10   .100
2   3   .667
4   6   .667
0   3   .000
0   4   .000
1   5   .200
4   5   .800
3   7   .429
2   7   .286
2   4   .500
5   7   .714
2   4   .500
2   4   .500
6   12   .500
3   4   .750
3   5   .600
5   8   .625
2   6   .333
3   4   .750
4   9   .444
0   8   .000
0   2   .000
4   8   .500
0   9   .000
1   4   .250
2   3   .667
2   4   .500
3   7   .429

He's wildly inconsistent, I showed how and here's the statistical evidence. He'll take shots that look bad and you'll be pulling your hair saying "WHY!?" He doesn't care, if he in his own mind thinks he's taking a very good shot, than he's going to take it, like I said, he did this constantly in one of the most freelance offensive systems in the league.

OMG. That is your statistical evidence? Kobe and Fisher has worse shooting swings than that. You wasted a lot of time over nothing.

Here is what I did. I took the CSV of game logs from Basketball Reference then calculated the standard deviation of 3P%.

Here is what I got

Artest:
Population (Games): 69
STD: .212453

Kobe
Population (Games): 82
STD: .242368

Derek Fisher
Population (Games): 82
STD: .28547

Ariza:
Population (Games): 82
STD: .34332

Battier
Population (Games): 60
STD: .251834

Now if you do not know what STD is then read up, but that means the higher the number the more the 3P% vary. And look. Ron Artest is MORE CONSISTENT than Kobe, Fisher, Ariza, and Battier.

Ariza is even worse, but in fairness, he did not become a good shooter until the second half of the season.

Lakers fans know what inconsistent means. We survived Fisher.

My point is when we talk about Artest having a 2 game stretch of 0-10 and then a 2 game stretch of 7-10, that also happens to other players. You can look at the game logs of other good shooters and you will have worse hot-cold streaks than Artest had - so those statements do not mean anything.

Lakers are also aware of Kobe's 360 fade away three point shots or Fisher bombing it up with a bigger guy on his face. All those were bricks. We lived. Look at it this way - if Artest really has bad shot selection from the three, then he must be really an amazing shooter to shoot 40%.


EDIT: I did the calculation wanting to see for myself if Artest is inconsistent as people are making out to be, but seeing the results surprised even me. lol!

[moofs]

Here is my response to baller24 on the PC thread:

EDIT: I did the calculation wanting to see for myself if Artest is inconsistent as people are making out to be, but seeing the results surprised even me. lol!

As someone who's well familiar with STDevs, I must say, that result shocks me.

Moreover, I'm wanting to hit myself in the head with a hammer for not noticing that CSV link before.

[semi-sentient]

Ariza will wow you with his fast break dunks (youtube his dunk on Grant Hill's ass -- nasty) and timely steals, but I think that's about it. As others have mentioned Ariza is the product of a system that got him open look after open look. He won't create anything for himself, but his shot has shown constant improvement over the course of the season. That has everything to do with Kobe and Craig Hodges working with him over the summer and during the season, so I think as long as the shots are there he will do respectable. He will not be as efficient as he was with the Lakers, that much I think is certain.

Anyway, he'll be a fan favorite, I think. It's hard to really say how he will perform because the Rockets offense seems to be in trouble without Yao, so it's possible he'll struggle mightily as a result. That's not his fault though. He's a fantastic role player and if you get him some open looks he will not disappoint. His defense and effort will always be there, so you can count on that if nothing else.

He'll be missed in LA, so I wish him the best with the Rockets. He's going to get a crazy loud ovation when he returns to Staples assuming half the arena isn't on their cell phones when his name is announced.

[moofs]

Hey Semi-Sentient, what happened to your spinny face avatar?

[dingclancy]

Here is my response to baller24 on the PC thread:

EDIT: I did the calculation wanting to see for myself if Artest is inconsistent as people are making out to be, but seeing the results surprised even me. lol!

As someone who's well familiar with STDevs, I must say, that result shocks me.

Moreover, I'm wanting to hit myself in the head with a hammer for not noticing that CSV link before.

Yeah those CSVs are a godsend.

I ran the same functions for other Rockets players, and still Artest beat them.

From STDEV you can say that Artest is more consistent than Battier, Brooks, and Wafer

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