Worrying about taxes

bball55 · Post #21 » by **bball55** » Sun Jul 5, 2009 7:14 pm

we care about salaries because there is a such thing as a salary cap. therefore how an owner spends his money affects the success of our favorite team.

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that's ok. but, maybe, there are some very rich owners who want to spend well over salary cap and luxury levels. but, you don't want them to spend more. all fans, writers, experts, etc are putting pressure on such richs who want to spend billions. but, they are stepping back after all critics. have you ever thought about this?

Post #22 » by **Flash3** » Sun Jul 5, 2009 7:17 pm

What are you trying to argue for/against, OP? You're going all over the spectrum here.

bball55 · Post #23 » by **bball55** » Sun Jul 5, 2009 7:23 pm

"NBA teams have a 15 man max roster"

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Ok, then, my first year, i will have 15 veteran with a salary of 20 million each. Then, i will be paying 300 million total a year. Any problem here if i do this? What does this mean? Please, tell.

Re: mod, i am learning, we are learning. Learning why Knicks, Lakers, etc are going over taxes while others not. And why some fans care while some don't.

Post #24 » by **5DOM** » Sun Jul 5, 2009 7:26 pm

In addition to the 300 million dollars, you have to pay a dollar for every dollar past the luxury tax limit. This money goes to the league and is later evenly distributed to teams under the luxury tax limit

bball55 · Post #25 » by **bball55** » Sun Jul 5, 2009 7:29 pm

ok, fine. i want to pay more. i will pay 500 million dollars a year. not good? (i know i know you now will call me an idiot. right?)

magicfan04 · Post #26 » by **magicfan04** » Sun Jul 5, 2009 7:30 pm

bball55 wrote:"NBA teams have a 15 man max roster"

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Ok, then, my first year, i will have 15 veteran with a salary of 20 million each. Then, i will be paying 300 million total a year. Any problem here if i do this? What does this mean? Please, tell.

Re: mod, i am learning, we are learning. Learning why Knicks, Lakers, etc are going over taxes while others not. And why some fans care while some don't.

others teams arent going over the luxury tax because there owners dont want to pay it....i would have no problem with the magic going into the luxury tax this offseason, if they did they would be able to keep turkoglu, gortat AND use the MLE on someone like Sheed, but thats not how it works because as ppl have told u over and over again in this thread, basketball is a business and if the owners are losing money they will cut salary.

bball55 · Post #27 » by **bball55** » Sun Jul 5, 2009 7:35 pm

".but thats not how it works because as ppl have told u over and over again in this thread, basketball is a business and if the owners are losing money they will cut salary."

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if it is a business, why pressuring on players only by saying this is worth of this money, that player is worth of that money and so on? if the owners are losing money, they go out of business. it is like saying these workers of this factory should make less because owner of factory is losing money. didn't get the logic. apply pressures onto owners also. why only on players?

magicfan04 · Post #28 » by **magicfan04** » Sun Jul 5, 2009 7:41 pm

bball55 wrote:".but thats not how it works because as ppl have told u over and over again in this thread, basketball is a business and if the owners are losing money they will cut salary."

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if it is a business, why pressuring on players only by saying this is worth of this money, that player is worth of that money and so on? if the owners are losing money, they go out of business. it is like saying these workers of this factory should make less because owner of factory is losing money. didn't get the logic. apply pressures onto owners also. why only on players?

i dont think you understand the financial side of basketball at all, it really does not seem worth it to argue with you.

bball55 · Post #29 » by **bball55** » Sun Jul 5, 2009 7:48 pm

i dont think you understand the financial side of basketball at all, it really does not seem worth it to argue with you.

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I understand business very well. Any business in any field. Does it worth to discuss now? I maybe not much knowledgable about basketball techniques, talents, and so on. But, please, don't say you know business of basketball. Also, note that there are similar things also in football, soccer, etc. Fans do know nothing about the business in any pro sport field. I want to buy a team and want to spend a billion on a team (note: it is for you! as you like), but, you are against.. strange.

Heat3 · Post #30 » by **Heat3** » Sun Jul 5, 2009 8:00 pm

no owner wants to spend for the sake of spending. there are few individual owners who can, many are just "groups" of owners. only teams such as the Knicks and Lakers (and maybe 2 or 3 others) can afford to outspend the salary cap.

do you understand that having a small group of teams that spend way more than the others (thus given themselves a better chance to win) is BAD for the league? why would someone in Milwaukee, Minny, or Charlotte care about the Bucks if they know that every year the Knicks will outspend them by 3-4 times and win the title while their team misses the playoffs?

if only a few teams are competitive, then the whole league will bankrupt itself cause no one will spend money to support all 30 teams. Just look at the Florida Marlins. Nobody gives a crap because the owners don't give a crap about spending on the team. There are times when there are less than 1000 people at a game LOL That is the reason for the cap in the first place.

LOL at owners being "pressured" to not waste their money..... :roll:

Joana · Post #31 » by **Joana** » Sun Jul 5, 2009 8:01 pm

bball55 wrote:I understand business very well. Any business in any field. Does it worth to discuss now? I maybe not much knowledgable about basketball techniques, talents, and so on. But, please, don't say you know business of basketball. Also, note that there are similar things also in football, soccer, etc. Fans do know nothing about the business in any pro sport field. I want to buy a team and want to spend a billion on a team (note: it is for you! as you like), but, you are against.. strange.

I've never seen a fan complaining about the owner being willing to pay luxury tax. I think you are confusing things. Fans complain about overpaid players because 1) there's a salary cap; 2) they know that will limit the owners ability to spend money in other players. When you read fans wanting to "dump salaries", it's not exactly because they want to save money to their owners de per si; but because they want to protect the teams financial flexibility.

Another thing is that most fans understand those owners who don't want to pay luxury tax. Even for a millionaire, a NBA can be a rather expensive hobby. Plus, in the long run, a profitable league with profitable franchises is the only path to consistent success.

Joana · Post #32 » by **Joana** » Sun Jul 5, 2009 8:03 pm

bball55 wrote:Let me add. Tax is a return to you. The more tax the more income (in a school, hospital, etc) for your folks.

Crazy. Tax is legalized robbery. But yeah, you clearly don't understand a lot about this issue. The famous "tax" is not a government tax.

bball55 · Post #33 » by **bball55** » Sun Jul 5, 2009 8:17 pm

"...Another thing is that most fans understand those owners who don't want to pay luxury tax..."

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It is not another thing. It is the main thing. Fans, admit this. This is why you all are doing cap and tax calculations.

So, those owners do NOT WANT to pay luxury tax? So what? Players WANT to be paid more. One of these WANTS will happen. Which side are you on? It seems that you are on the sides of owners. Hence, my claim at the first post is valid. You are thinking owners more than players. Admit that and lets finish this debate here.

Maybe, it will make your minds clear if i do analogy to a production company. Lets say a factory owner does not want to pay more to his workers. And, workers want to be paid more. But, you are against the workers. And, you say you know business.

RockTHECasbah · Post #34 » by **RockTHECasbah** » Sun Jul 5, 2009 8:40 pm

we do not side with the owners, every team wishes they had a Paul Allen or a Mark Cuban

but most teams don't... because of this, we are wary when salary cap funds are directed towards players who are overpaid or who we feel do not deserve the money (because it will not translate into wins onto the court)

and with a salary cap system, even with a seemingly unlimited budget, there ends up being a limit to what you can spend (look at the Knicks) paying Randolph, Francis and Marbury and co to play like crap, while they only have the MLE to spend on players like Jared Jefferies and they can't just trade these players

this isn't soccer or baseball, where the punishment to a rich owner is low for making a large bad signing

Warspite · Post #35 » by **Warspite** » Sun Jul 5, 2009 9:18 pm

bball55 wrote:I will never understand fans of any professional sports in general and basketball in particular.
Having read the forums from time to time, I always read the same thing:

Calculating budgets, taxes, luxury taxes, etc etc. You don't calculate even your own budgets and you care about budgets of some rich owners.

Too much money for this player?, Much for that, and so on so on.

Folks, it's not your money. It's money of a wealthy billioner or two. You are not owners.
Let these rich people spend more.
What's up to you?

listen to the little marxist....

Like the owners pay the players with money they find at the end of rainbows.

We the FANs pay the salaries and WE the fans pay for the arenas and we the fans pay for everything in the NBA/MLB/NFL/NHL and every other sport in the world.

The NBA Owners are just middle men that take a cut and have the say in our teams. We the fans pay the salaries and by the merchandise and products that keep the teams going. Its our $$$ that keeps these player paid and the stadiums built.

You realy think that if 80% of sports fans suddenly stop watching sports that these players would keep getting raises and people would still be waiting in line to buy a franchise??

The bottom line is that the Laker fan and supporter is as much responsible and deserves as much credit as the owner does. W/O the Laker fans capitol the lakers cant even turn on the lights to staples center much less field a team with talent like Kobe Bryant.

bball55 · Post #36 » by **bball55** » Sun Jul 5, 2009 9:27 pm

Limiting the budget for teams is good in keeping level of teams more or less equal. So, nba has a good system comparing other pro sports. But, there is still a big contradiction. Big money in the field and share is not so equal. Anyway, when you don't have any power on the richests (owners) you play with the relatively poorers (players). If we admit that, there is no problem, we can go further from there. But, we don't admit that and we defence the illogics claiming this is the logic of this pro basketball field. Illogic. Anyway. For me, still no difference. Whether owners pay 100 or 10000000.. dollars to players. I am not making any 1 dollar from their business relations between themselves. I feel I am an idiot when I care about their exchanges. Even if they pay nothing to each others like in amateur basketball, i still watch. Sometimes. This pro things getting ugly. Remember players were being paid less than $100K some decades ago. In early days, they were being paid just like a factory worker salary. Maybe, was more fun. Now, several millions being paid. So what? Whats up to us? We pay. By tickets, by this by that. We buy luxury. We pay for luxury. And, we have no power. Owners have. We lost and we are lost. And, we say we know well. We know nothing. Anyway, have fun!

bball55 · Post #37 » by **bball55** » Sun Jul 5, 2009 9:35 pm

"...listen to the little marxist.... "

"... we pay for talents like Kobe..."

These are what you said/meant, Warspite?

Heh, maybe, i am marxists, maybe, i am not.
But, you are certainly an idiot. Who pays millions to a person while you don't make a few tousands? Only idiots. Kobe is a talent? Probably so. Then, you are not. Pay it.

Warspite · Post #38 » by **Warspite** » Sun Jul 5, 2009 10:11 pm

bball55 wrote:"...listen to the little marxist.... "

"... we pay for talents like Kobe..."

These are what you said/meant, Warspite?

Heh, maybe, i am marxists, maybe, i am not.
But, you are certainly an idiot. Who pays millions to a person while you don't make a few tousands? Only idiots. Kobe is a talent? Probably so. Then, you are not. Pay it.

Im guessing english isnt your 1st language and so American freedom and capitolism is hard to understand. Just as I cant figure out Shiria Law. In a Capitolist system a persons worth is dependant on how rare there skill is and what someone is willing to pay.

We all pay for kobes salary every time we buy something at any of the companies that advertise there products at NBA events or TV. If you watch any movie from Time/Warner you are paying for NBA salaries as Time/Warner pays the NBA to broadcast there games. If you have bought anything from McDonalds over the past few yrs you help pay for NBA salaries. When you buy paper from Staples you then help pay Kobes salary as they pay the Lakers to have there name on there stadium. The same with Coke or Pepsi.

In free market economy the money is always in flux and it continues to move from fan to advertiser to owner to player with everyone taking a %. Then many players spend the money on charities and invest it into places that invest into employers who then hire fans to work so they have the money to purchase the items that support the NBA.

Post #39 » by **Three34** » Sun Jul 5, 2009 10:22 pm

Why was this moved here? What are we supposed to do with it?

bball55 · Post #40 » by **bball55** » Sun Jul 5, 2009 10:30 pm

"...American capitolism is hard to understand..."

Since last year, whole world's average people have already understood what it is. (re: banktruptings everywhere, collapsing economy towers, banks, factories, etc. Big downs especially in USA.)

"...In a Capitolist system a persons worth is dependant on how rare there skill is and what someone is willing to pay..."

Eh, we all know this. You can buy. I don't buy. If there are 5 billion people on the earth, there are 5 billion rare skills. But, if you are not aware of your own skills, you will pay for skills of others that you consider "rare." Sad. See how rare logic you are bringing here. Kobe should pay you some good $$$. But, he probably doesn't consider you a rare skill. Hence, no pay to you. Sad, really. You are ignored. (Not by me.)