Are We Thunder Fan Getting to Cozy

jwilliamson23 · Post #1 » by **jwilliamson23** » Fri Jul 3, 2009 4:50 pm

I'm new to the board, but i've been reading the Thunder Forum Since we Got the Team Last year so I keep up pretty well.. I love what were are doing here and we'll be a great contender soon.. But what I've noticed in a lot of these trades scenarios that people ask us about we shoot them down, not because it hurts our growth, or the money, or etc.. but because.. "we really like him" or "he's one of my favorite players" or "he really likes OKC" things like that.. I know the offers on the RealGM forum don't mean a thing in real life, but i think us as Thunder fans should loosen up our grip on our players when there is opportunity for us to improve, hopefully Presti would agree with me. I know were a new team and we have a great sense of Ownership of them but we should try it. This isn't a calling out because I do it occasionally too.. Any others feel the same? and I know people will Disagree, cuz they'll wont admit they're being Homers.

Go Thunder.

Post #2 » by **slick_watts** » Fri Jul 3, 2009 5:30 pm

agreed.

jwilliamson23 · Post #3 » by **jwilliamson23** » Fri Jul 3, 2009 5:39 pm

slick watts:
i think this is a worthwhile topic, low response because im new?

Big_Mac79 · Post #4 » by **Big_Mac79** » Fri Jul 3, 2009 5:46 pm

jwilliamson23 wrote:slick watts:
i think this is a worthwhile topic, low response because im new?

Be a little more in depth with what exactly you mean
What opportunity are you talking about exactly?

jwilliamson23 · Post #5 » by **jwilliamson23** » Fri Jul 3, 2009 6:02 pm

No Problem Big_Mac79:

I was looking at the Green for Amare, Kaman, Camby, Bosh trades and most individuals had good reasons for declining. but I noticed a lot were stuck on wanting to keep green even if the trade was better for us. I think were get stuck on Guys like Collison and Green and Thabo. I'll use those 3.

We See

Collison-a decent big but we like him because he's a Kansas Guy, he's a solid player and a Nice guy
Green-a young player who is getting better we who we need to improve because we used a lottery pick on him, basically in a trade for Ray Allen.
Thabo- a solid guy Who came in and did a good job in a weak spot for us.

They See

Collison- 8ppg 7reb for 6million per
Green- 16ppg 7rebs (on a poor team) for 4.5 million per
Thabo- 6ppg 4reb 2ast for 3million per

My point is we shouldn't overvalue players because We like them and want to keep them.

These guys are Solid Players but I think we have a blown up view of them, what value do that have league wide, rather than just to OKC, i think we should look at them like that when people come to us with trades

Post #6 » by **wizkid27** » Fri Jul 3, 2009 11:22 pm

jwill, you bring up some really good points. I would say that more often than not, I very much fall into the category of fans you're talking about. Some of this is due to the fact that the luxury of my position as "fan" is that I get to love our players and hate on other teams and don't have to make objective decisions

Green is definitely one of my favorite players in the league. I don't believe it is because I'm being a homer or anything, I just think that I see a lot of potential for a great complimentary player in his game. Lately, most of the proposals have revolved around trading him for someone else due to him not being a typical PF. I just really liked the way that Durant/Green looked at the forward spots in the 2nd half of last season. The other factor in all of this, is that there have been some comments from our "big 3" about how they all hang out together. In all honesty, a lot of the future of this franchise hinges on retaining Durant. Now, you don't just keep guys because they're somebody else's friend, but it can't hurt.

mnkinga23 · Post #7 » by **mnkinga23** » Fri Jul 3, 2009 11:30 pm

Amare is worth Green and other pieces if you can get him on an extension.
Kaman and Camby can be had without giving up Green.
I don't think that Bosh is worth getting because he'll be seeking a max contract and I don't think that he is a max type player.
Collison and Sefolosha play roles that a good team needs but those individual players don't necessarily need to play them.
Is that homerish to you?

jwilliamson23 · Post #8 » by **jwilliamson23** » Sat Jul 4, 2009 2:03 am

wizkid :I like green too and i hope we keep and he grows and we get a Mean 3, 4 combo out of them. I agree with all you said abotu him and the big 3.

mnkinga: that wasn't my point at all, I said there were great reasons for not making those deals. and if u go back you will see that i said most people pointed those out.. my main concern was not with your reasons, (contract, extensions, value, etc) it was with those who's reasons were.. "he's a nice guy" and " i want to see him do well" I agree with Wizkid in wanting to see them grow together, and i think we both agreed that would be awesome, but we did not want to let our "like" and "ownership" for the players blind us from doing whats best for the team, even if it included losing a guy we really like. thats the point im trying to make. Please try and read the post fully before you attack, thanks!

Post #9 » by **wizkid27** » Sun Jul 5, 2009 10:06 pm

jwill, for the record, I agree with you completely. I just don't want to let any of them go

The other part that I kind of wonder "if we're getting crazy", is in the overwhelming predictions that we'll be in the playoffs in 10/11 and then to an even bigger degree 09/10... I think that if everything goes our way this year we COULD be in the playoffs (not likely though) and that if we don't screw things up, then next season we SHOULD be in the playoffs. Am I off base or being realistic?

jwilliamson23 · Post #10 » by **jwilliamson23** » Mon Jul 6, 2009 6:32 am

ha ha i understand that.. I dont want to lose them either... we'll see what happens. Read today that were not going to "splurge" so thats a good note for that.

and yes i definitely agree.. i want to believe we'll make the playoffs every year. heck, NBA title 2010, but thats not realistic..lol i think we have a chance if the jazz move boozer and the suns move amare, and i think the Rockets are in trouble, we could be better that those 3 teams next year. so its more of teams getting worse and not so much us just making this HUGE leap of skill..lol and 10-11' we should be in the playoffs. maybe we sign a free agent next offseason, once the League see's the improvement of the franchise and the support OKC has. so no(or yes), your being very realistic.

Post #11 » by **slick_watts** » Tue Jul 7, 2009 12:24 am

okc has a very slim chance of playoffs next season if the roster in place is what's put out there. the only player that played above average for his position was kevin durant. russell westbrook was close and should be above average next season, but who knows. jeff green was below average pf and nenad krstic was close but below average center.

the big factors in my opinion are russell westbrook and james harden. if westbrook can play in control (big if) and cut down those turnovers / improve scoring efficiency it would go a long way since he does lots of other things that get negated by his reckless play. if james harden is an above average shooting guard it would really help since that was okc's worst position last season.

i think jeff green will hurt the team more than help it as long as he's starting at power forward.

jwilliamson23 · Post #12 » by **jwilliamson23** » Tue Jul 7, 2009 2:17 am

slick_watts:
Ya i agree about the playoffs, but if you look at the Rockets currently, their best player is Louis Scola or Ariza. so they will drop of significantly. so we will have to battle with them phx and utah for that last spot. I think its a slim, but a chance. and well ya you right about the improvements on the team.. what would you do if you were presti, would you move green or move the expirings for a 4 man, just who/what do you think we should do, or trade for? just curious.

Air Durant35 · Post #13 » by **Air Durant35** » Tue Jul 7, 2009 8:43 am

hey gents i'm new to this board as well and hope to stay here for the long term so long as there are other thunder fans that post here lol.

but yeah, this team isnt playoff ready. But we're getting damn close. Yeah i wouldnt mind trading for a center and a bruising PF but even if this team makes no moves in the offseaon, the squad is nice the way it is.

our time will come. some of these western conference powerhouse will start falling off and our team will take advantage. i cant wait!

Post #14 » by **wizkid27** » Tue Jul 7, 2009 1:28 pm

AirDurant, welcome to RealGM. Always nice to see another Thunder fan join the group!

Everyone seems to think that our time will come in the next couple of years, I'd just love to see it this year (however unlikely) instead of in 2 or 3 years...

jwilliamson23 · Post #15 » by **jwilliamson23** » Tue Jul 7, 2009 8:41 pm

welcome Air Durant.. ya us thunder fans are getting stronger by the month..lol

ya I agree with WizKid. I wish it was the season but I wouldnt give up long term security for short term success, Presti isn't under any pressure so I can wait, and watch up develop into a playoff team year after year. and ya i wouldnt mind trading for a big or 2, but looks like DJ white is doing well in the summer league, I think he'll be able to split minutes with green at the 4 this season, he reminds me alot of paul millsap actually. I dont like the free agents left to much so i rather just see how these guys do and then maybe look for a deal at the trade deadline, but I for sure want to give them ample opportunity to prove themselves.. and anyone noticed we played Livingston at the 3 in the first game? thought that was interesting.

Test of Wills · Post #16 » by **Test of Wills** » Tue Jul 7, 2009 8:53 pm

With Presti at the helm.

With his patience and poise as a GM of a young team, your fan base has ever right to be sitting cozy.

You guys have a great future.

bmw42690 · Post #17 » by **bmw42690** » Wed Jul 8, 2009 12:11 am

As far as the playoff talk goes, here is how I see it.

Definitely in (barring major injuries):
Lakers - As much as I hate to say they are definitely in, no brainer
San Antonio - Now have a big 4 by adding Jefferson and still have MLE
Denver - Pretty much same team as last year
Dallas - Resigning Kidd keeps them in this group
Portland - Solid last year, still have cap room to build with

Definitely out:
Minnesota
Clippers
Memphis
Sacramento

The rest:
Phoenix - If they trade Wallace for Chandler then I would say they are in. It all hinges on what they do in the offseason. They can be a playoff team as long as they dont rebuild and can stay healthy...those are big questions though.
Utah - Should be in as long as they dont lose Millsap and Boozer. Kind of a hard team to judge.
New Orleans - If they keep Chandler they can be in. Injuries have crippled them recently and they are looking to cut costs. If that happens they very well can fall out of the playoffs.
Golden State - They have a bunch of young talent. If they put it together they could be good, that might be a big if though.
Houston - Went from "could've beaten LA" to "what the hell is happening" over the course of 2 months. I dont see them back in the playoffs.
OKC - Great young talent. Got better at the end of last year. Still some holes but easily could squeeze into the playoffs with some help.

With all that said, I see 3 spots available. If NO trades Chandler, I see them and Houston dropping out. I think that could leave us and GS battling for one spot. Am i hopeful? Yes. But I think this is certainly realistic. Thoughts?

jwilliamson23 · Post #18 » by **jwilliamson23** » Wed Jul 8, 2009 1:37 am

bmw: thats a great look at it... I pretty much agree with your whole list. I think we will be right in the 6, 7, 8, 9 spot with phoenix, houston, and utah depending on the deals you already stated. im not to high up on Golden State because im not sure what has changed really from last year. they made some moves but i dont know how much they improved. im thinking at best we'll get the 8 spot, behind Phoenix and Utah. others?

Post #19 » by **slick_watts** » Wed Jul 8, 2009 1:48 am

you mentioned a lot of teams that haven't improved much.. but have the thunder even improved at all? james harden's really the only addition to the rotation so far. sure, he'll definitely outproduce the SG's of 2008-2009 but he's not worth more than four or five wins at best.

it really depends on how you see the guys developing. i don't think kevin durant's going to have as big a leap as he did last year. jeff green? he's a liability at the pf spot, i can't see that changing unless he increases his scoring efficiency tremendously. russell westbrook? that's the real factor right there. if westbrook plays efficient, smart basketball the team has a chance to be a lot better. maybe 35+ wins.

one thing that i think will be improved is the bench.

Post #20 » by **wizkid27** » Wed Jul 8, 2009 2:11 am

My end of season standings predictions look like this:

Lakers
Denver
Portland
San Antonio
Utah
Dallas
New Orleans
Phoenix

Then the top 3 teams missing the playoffs:
Clippers
Warriors
Thunder

So... I put us at 11. I think that is a realistic place for us to finish and would also demonstrate the solid strides we've made towards being a very good team.