Time for a star?

[August Us Seazr]

As I see it, there are three methods for building a team. There's the free agent route... which the Lakers, Celtics, Magic, and Cavs all seem to be exploiting pretty well. There's the trade route, which we worked well in 08-09, but poorly pre-LB. And there's the draft route, which we are doing better, but our overall history gets a grade of D- ( and a lot of us really think that should be downgraded to an F+!)

Need a star...yes, we do. But HOW do we get one??????? I can't solve that one. Right now, the only star players we have associated with the Bobcats are retired- (Michael Jordan and Dell Curry), leaving us with a void.

Short term, the only hope I could see is if MJ would agree to spend two week stints in Charlotte each month and take GH under his wing and help his development as a player. I think those who are saying that Hendo won't be a star are being premature. I also think that the most we can expect from Felts is improvement from good to very good. After four years, I think he has pretty much settled into his mold. I'm not seeing ground-breaking improvements from him, just refinements. Hendo is another matter. He has shown grit, scoring touch, and defense as a collegian. He deserves a chance to exceed expectations, which are pretty mixed among those on this board.

If Hendo lands on the "less than a star" plateau, I see problems for us long term. Trade Route- We gut the core. Draft Route- No draft has star power dipping down PAST the lottery. It won't happen. Free Agent Route- Yeah, right! You get my drift. Optomistic, I'm not!

[thruthefire]

Every bobcat forum i see has us trading Okafor for Marko Jaric and Marc Gasol?? Granted i like Gasol.. but Marko Jaric?? Unless where trying to make his wife a courtside regular... there is no need for him to be in Charlotte... seriously???

But as far as a star player goes... we don't need one.. we just need a leader... remember.. the pistons when they won in the mid 2000's didn't have a superstar.... they had a bunch of guys who played the parts.... and a leader in C.Billiups.... stars win games... teams win championships..

They didn't have a "superstar" but had the defensive player of the year and like 5 all stars in their starting lineup lol.

We don't have any potential stars right now aside from maybe Hendo. I don't think Hendo will be a star but i'm not ruling it out just yet.

Okafor is still a better player now then Ben Wallace ever was, and we all know how selecting of all-stars works. Rasheed was averaging 12 and 7 or so two years ago, and he was selected by Stern to be an all-star replacement. Hamilton's numbers are right there with Ben Gordon's, but he's been a multiple all-star, while Gordon hasn't been once.

Bottomline, I don't think the talent difference between our starting-five and the Championship Pistons starting-five is all that much.

[Benjamin Linus]

Clearly we don't have any "stars" on our team but we do have a few guys who would easily make the All-Star team if they were playing on the right team. Regardless, I would rather have a roster full of talent top-to-bottom than one with just a single really good player (Indiana, Sacramento) or one that's just an absolute mess (Golden State, Detroit, Memphis) or one that has a total lack of any talent whatsoever (New York, Milwaukee).

[Badd_Intentions]

Bottomline, I don't think the talent difference between our starting-five and the Championship Pistons starting-five is all that much.

Well my friend, if you believe this then I have nothing more to say to you in this thread.

[Badd_Intentions]

Clearly we don't have any "stars" on our team but we do have a few guys who would easily make the All-Star team if they were playing on the right team. Regardless, I would rather have a roster full of talent top-to-bottom than one with just a single really good player (Indiana, Sacramento) or one that's just an absolute mess (Golden State, Detroit, Memphis) or one that has a total lack of any talent whatsoever (New York, Milwaukee).

I agree, but it's been done different ways. I mean if you have 1 really good player, you can "build around him" Like Clevland with Bron or Miami with DW. Usually really good guys want to play with other really good guys, then you get some role players and secondary guys you'll have a good team.

I'm not sure i'd call our roster full of talent top to bottom. We did finish last in scoring I think.

[Bassman]

Okafor is still a better player now then Ben Wallace ever was, and we all know how selecting of all-stars works. Rasheed was averaging 12 and 7 or so two years ago, and he was selected by Stern to be an all-star replacement. Hamilton's numbers are right there with Ben Gordon's, but he's been a multiple all-star, while Gordon hasn't been once.

Bottomline, I don't think the talent difference between our starting-five and the Championship Pistons starting-five is all that much.

While the Okafor and Wallace comparisons are not entirely accurate (Ben Wallace was an impact center in his best days, while Okafor is an average, consistent center), I also disagree on the talent difference versus the championship Pistons.

Felton is not nearly the PG equal; Diaw is a lesser player to Rasheed; Bell is OK but cannot hold Hamilton's jock in scoring points; Wallace and Prince are close, and Wallace edges Mek in sheer effect on the game.

[thruthefire]

Okafor is still a better player now then Ben Wallace ever was, and we all know how selecting of all-stars works. Rasheed was averaging 12 and 7 or so two years ago, and he was selected by Stern to be an all-star replacement. Hamilton's numbers are right there with Ben Gordon's, but he's been a multiple all-star, while Gordon hasn't been once.

Bottomline, I don't think the talent difference between our starting-five and the Championship Pistons starting-five is all that much.

While the Okafor and Wallace comparisons are not entirely accurate (Ben Wallace was an impact center in his best days, while Okafor is an average, consistent center), I also disagree on the talent difference versus the championship Pistons.

Felton is not nearly the PG equal; Diaw is a lesser player to Rasheed; Bell is OK but cannot hold Hamilton's jock in scoring points; Wallace and Prince are close, and Wallace edges Mek in sheer effect on the game.

An impact center who couldn't even average a double-double. Wallace's best PER is lower than Okafor's was this season. How is Diaw a lesser player than Sheed? Diaw is a better shooter and passer, more versatile, a more efficient scorer, and neither are good rebounders. Wallace and Prince are close, but clearly the better player is Wallace.

Billups > Felton
Hamitlon > Bell
Prince < Wallace
R. Wallace = Diaw
B. Wallace < Okafor

See, it's a draw.

[thruthefire]

Bottomline, I don't think the talent difference between our starting-five and the Championship Pistons starting-five is all that much.

Well my friend, if you believe this then I have nothing more to say to you in this thread.

I'm glad you now understand that all-star appearances are overrated.

[Bassman]

An impact center who couldn't even average a double-double. Wallace's best PER is lower than Okafor's was this season. How is Diaw a lesser player than Sheed? Diaw is a better shooter and passer, more versatile, a more efficient scorer, and neither are good rebounders. Wallace and Prince are close, but clearly the better player is Wallace.

Billups > Felton
Hamitlon > Bell
Prince < Wallace
R. Wallace = Diaw
B. Wallace < Okafor

Fire, with all due respect, did you actually watch any of the games Detroit played in those years and during their championship run?

Ben Wallace was a feared player. Don't just look at stats. He made critical plays in games that had impact, that changed the course of big games against the best in the league. Okafor has yet to establish that level of reputation.

Wow, Diaw today is better than Rasheed in his era. I guess that's why the whole league is clamoring to aquire Boris in a trade.

Wallace is close but not yet better that Prince. While Gerald has his moments, his inconsistency is still an issue blocking his path to excellence. If he gets that fixed he should surpass Prince.

Agree to disagree!

[thruthefire]

Ben Wallace was a feared player. Don't just look at stats. He made critical plays in games that had impact, that changed the course of big games against the best in the league. Okafor has yet to establish that level of reputation.

Maybe it's just a case of you remembering what he did more because of the importance of the games he played in as opposed to the ones Okafor has played in.

But anyways, if you want to say the Wallaces' were better in those Pistons' years than Okafor and Diaw, fine, but saying Wallace is not yet at the level of Prince is ridiculous. Maybe in total affect on a season they're the same, since Gerald can't stay healthy and Prince is an iron-man, but when on the court, Gerald is easily the better player.

And I didn't say Diaw was a better player than Wallace in his heyday ... I said they were equal.

I am saying you devalue your own, though.

[SWedd523]

I wouldn't say Diaw (at his best) and Sheed (at his best) are equal. Sheed was a much more feared offensive player and has always been a better overall defender.



Onto the topic, I wouldn't say we necessarily need a STAR. We really only need consistency. Felton, Wallace, Diaw, and Mek all suffer from not playing to their full ability from time to time.

*Ray can have a great 18/10 night then turn around and shoot 4-20 with 5 turnovers.
*Crash's biggest issue is not being able to stay on the court for a full season as well as his outside shot. *A consistent shot from deep would surely put him in that star category we seem to be needing.
*Diaw suffers the same fate as Ray--near triple double one game, disappears the next.
*Mek just can't play like a man for three games in a row. His yoga class must be filllllled with girls (is that bad?)

[fatlever]

i'm with bass in this pistons (prime) vs bobats argument (current).

billups > felton
hamilton > bell
prince < wallace
wallace > diaw
wallace > okafor
pistons bench > bobcats bench

there is a reason they won a ring and we didnt make the playoffs. the talent is not equal. its not even close.

[thruthefire]

I was just comparing starting fives, not benches.

[Paydro70]

Still not close. You probably want two >'s in front of Felton.

Sheed's really far and away better than Diaw... the title year, Sheed was an 18+ PER player, Diaw was only 15 with us. Even if we call the D a wash Sheed has him. I might be willing to draw an = between Okafor and B. Wallace. Ben was a better defender, but the gap on offense is so huge (even for Emeka) that it's probably not a clear >.

Anyway, Fats is right, we just aren't title contenders based off of putting together good pieces. Those Pistons squads were built perfectly, even if you assemble a bunch of talent you still aren't guaranteed to make it anywhere (i.e., the Suns).

[CatNation]

we are a little bit of consistency and a couple of guys learning how to shoot away from being a 4 seed.

so we're quite far lol

nobody on our team can consistently score. thats why I want Iverson. I think with Iverson everyone will become more consistent as they can all play their game without worrying as much about buckets. NOBODY on our starting lineup wants to be a 20+ ppg scorer. I think we are one of the only teams that could bring Iverson, and nobody would be complaining about shots. Everyone could play within themselves, therefore being more efficient.

Any shot taken by Iverson would be more effective than bad shots taken by wallace, FELTON, and okafor because Iverson is a scorer. thats what we need