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"Creating Shots"

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moofs
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"Creating Shots" 

Post#1 » by moofs » Wed Jul 8, 2009 8:30 pm

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/blog/ball_d ... nba,175324

I. Don't. Get. It.

The Lakers have all the shots they need, Kemo Sabe, and they don't need Ron Artest taking them out of their offense, shooting shots he that should not, making it possible that more efficient players are unable to do their thing. Yes, Ron Artest shot 40 percent from behind the arc last season. But he also shot 40 percent inside of it, and that's ... awful. That's just not good. While taking fewer than four free throws a game.

The Rockets, though, could use a guy like Artest. Even at that low efficiency, with no salary-cap space and few trading options (I doubt any team will take on Tracy McGrady's(notes) expiring salary before the season; that's too much money to spend just for cap relief in 2010. Best to make the Rockets pay him until February), Houston needs all the shot creators it can get.

And as bad as Artest was for them in that area last year, at least he can get a good shot off sometimes. At least he can penetrate the defense, even with a miss.

Sure, Ariza's much younger, cost the same and might have a defensive edge on Artest at this point. I'm not saying this is a bad move for Houston. I just think signing Artest instead of Ariza might be the preferable move. Ariza is just not a creator. And even with increased chances to create, as will be the case with both Yao and T-Mac out (sigh) in Houston, it's just too hard to squeeze blood from a stone with a usage rate of 15.6.


"Ariza shot 35.7% in the Finals when Orlando collapsed on him."
"Artest shot "

Ariza Playoffs
0.611 0.611 0.556
0.500 0.409 0.522
0.581 0.500 0.636
0.357 0.417 0.500

Artest Playoffs
0.411 0.278 0.833
0.381 0.277 0.625
(yes, it's a bad, small sample size - the effect is still there in the regular season, but requires more than just shooting stats to demonstrate)

The problem with a guy who "can sometimes get off a good shot" when the play breaks down and at the end of games is that they're usually "offensively talented" and geared with a fitting mentality. As such, those guys aren't just taking shots when plays break down, but when they haven't. Frequently, when they haven't. At the same bad percentages, frequently, when they haven't.

In other words, you're losing ground the entire game by having these guys taking these shots that they have to "create". "Creating shots" is nothing more than jacking a ball at a hole. Anyone can do that at a bad percentage simply by being aware of the shot clock.

The opinion that someone has to do that job, as opposed to an entire team scoring as efficiently as possible, has sprung up slowly over the last 5 years (at least that I'm aware) in reactionary response to the increase in advanced stats analysis that's been happening over that same period. (In all likelihood, both of these have been around in inner circles for a lot longer than that and just haven't gotten any press coverage or been mainstream schools of thought).

Artest FORCED us to take lots of shots out of broken plays by... breaking them. It only stands to reason that someone would have to "save" the "broken" play at that point. Wouldn't it be easier to get rid of the guy that's breaking it? I can't see it possibly happening that being generally more efficient would not be able to outweigh that you can't get off "as good" of a low percentage shot with the clock winding down.

How, how, how is a bad shot not a bad shot when a "shot creator" takes it instead of a "role player" if they're both making them at a 35-40% clip? If you have 5 guys that command single coverage, instead of 3 guys that do with 1 that commands double teams and one who can be slacked off of, how are you not just as well off?

(I'm 99% positive that iggy will weigh in on this if he's checking the board)
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D up in this
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Re: "Creating Shots" 

Post#2 » by D up in this » Wed Jul 8, 2009 8:39 pm

why the hell did houston let artest go. hes sooo much better than ariza. ariza is 6th man skill thats it.
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Re: "Creating Shots" 

Post#3 » by BaYBaller » Wed Jul 8, 2009 10:55 pm

It's all a moot point really. The author of that article fails to realize that we're likely not going to contend next season and that and that is better long-term signing a younger Ariza rather than a past-his-prime Artest.

A better question would be if we should've signed Ariza at all and just saved the cap room.
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Re: "Creating Shots" 

Post#4 » by moofs » Wed Jul 8, 2009 10:59 pm

Can't disagree that it's not that important with regards to the Rockets for next season. What I'm more concerned with is the overall concept. Our team and these players merely serve as samples here.
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Re: "Creating Shots" 

Post#5 » by Ribalding » Thu Jul 9, 2009 12:03 am

I can't and won't argue with your logic. Shot creators are, by definition, a double edged sword. I will, however, point out a potential flaw in your "can't we-all-just-move-without-the-ball" conclusion, though:

It only happens at Princeton.

When is the least time you saw a true motion offense in the NBA? I can't think of one in the last 20 years. (Though Adelman's Kings teams came pretty damn close.) But that's not a reflection on the concept. The concept, especially when properly executed, is a thing of beauty and grace. It kinda makes me horny, truth be told.

I worry that eschewing the "shot creator" wouldn't work because today's NBA player can't or won't fully buy in to a true motion offense. My fear is you'd see 5 guys running in non-concentric circles and crashing gracelessly into one another. Then you'd hear the shot clock go off.

Sure hope I'm wrong, though.
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Re: "Creating Shots" 

Post#6 » by moofs » Thu Jul 9, 2009 12:26 am

Ribalding wrote:I can't and won't argue with your logic. Shot creators are, by definition, a double edged sword. I will, however, point out a potential flaw in your "can't we-all-just-move-without-the-ball" conclusion, though:

It only happens at Princeton.

When is the least time you saw a true motion offense in the NBA? I can't think of one in the last 20 years. (Though Adelman's Kings teams came pretty damn close.) But that's not a reflection on the concept. The concept, especially when properly executed, is a thing of beauty and grace. It kinda makes me horny, truth be told.

I worry that eschewing the "shot creator" wouldn't work because today's NBA player can't or won't fully buy in to a true motion offense. My fear is you'd see 5 guys running in non-concentric circles and crashing gracelessly into one another. Then you'd hear the shot clock go off.

Sure hope I'm wrong, though.


:rofl: :rofl:

I suspect that the lack of true motion offense has been more due to
1. Marketing reasons - it's hard to market a team to casual fans through 10-30 second highlight clips without being soccer. That problem doesn't seem to exist in the college game for some reason that I don't understand (wtf @ college loyalties - my best explanations for them to date have been "brainwashing" and "moose lodge". Then again, I went to UH).
2. With the salary cap and revenue sharing, pretty much just bad teams with bad players would have good reason to run it, in large part due to the above note, but those bad players won't be able to run it because they tend to be freakishly athletic guys and/or gifted shooters who were drafted on potential and don't really know how to play basketball or properly contribute to winning.

In line with the "how many other teams have gotten stuck with our disgusting level of injuries to core players" thread from a few days ago, I think we're in a very unique situation right now. We have a lot of good to very good players and a lot of depth, but Scola is the closest thing we have to a "star". I might be the only person around who's really looking forward to next season.

I don't know that they're double edged swords by default, either. Seems like that would only be if they're inefficient. Those are the kinds of guys that usually seem to get the label, but I'd call LeBron a "shot creator".
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Re: "Creating Shots" 

Post#7 » by tisbee » Thu Jul 9, 2009 2:42 am

While Ribaldind's imagery of the Rockets playing a bumpercar offence should at least confuse the Hades out of the other team's defensive schemes,I imagine they'll be just a bit more organized.

As to the shot creator role,Brooks looks like he'll be very capable of getting off a shot at will,esp off high screens.
And I was struck by how much Morey made of Taylor being able to shoot-and score-despite being double and triple-teamed. Expect he'll get a lot of looks at end of shot clock for bail-out shots.
If McGrady comes back a couple months into season,the issue will be pretty moot.

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