ALL RUBIO TALK HERE

[KWSN-Men]

The latest report was that Real Madrid offered 3.5 million euros buyout to Joventut, plus Joventut can have Marko Tomas as well and Real will pay Tomas' entire salary. So Joventut would get 3.5 million euros plus Marko Tomas for a free salary cost in exchange for Real getting Rubio's rights.

You're forgetting that they are reporting also a 1 million euro salary for Rubio. Where are the 17 million dollar that you reported first here?

Gone with the wind.

Where are your manners? They never existed in the first place did they?

[KWSN-Men]

KSWN--

I'm trying to figure out how the Real buyout would work procedurally. For instance, once Real buys out Ricky what's to stop him from pulling a Carlos Boozer and signing with the Wolves? In other words, how is it that he is then forced to negotiate with Real? If he is forced to, it seems this would be unfair procedurally because then Real would have all the leverage. The only way this makes sense to me is if Rubio's contract is assigned to Real, in which case Real could enforce the current contract or agree to a modification. Thanks for any input on this...

Rubio would be bound to Real and he could not go to the Wolves. It's very common place in Europe.

[john2jer]

Ok, that all makes sense, and most is what I believed already, but clearly the kid is good if at 18 he's already considered the second best PG in Spain, with the highest potential.

Oh certainly. He's one of the best European players ever at his age.

Gotcha. I guess I was a tad confused because you don't seem to be much of a fan of his, or rather you seem to bash him a lot. But maybe you're just propping up other established stars in their prime over in Euro that don't get as much attention or fanfare across the pond, which is fair.

[KWSN-Men]

Ok, that all makes sense, and most is what I believed already, but clearly the kid is good if at 18 he's already considered the second best PG in Spain, with the highest potential.

Oh certainly. He's one of the best European players ever at his age.

Gotcha. I guess I was a tad confused because you don't seem to be much of a fan of his, or rather you seem to bash him a lot. But maybe you're just propping up other established stars in their prime over in Euro that don't get as much attention or fanfare across the pond, which is fair.

NBA fans believe that every player from Europe that is drafted is a "superstar" in Europe, when in reality usually they would be lucky to even make a top 50-100 players list (actually very few would even be on a top 100 list). Rubio is considered good for his age, not nearly so much for players in general. There are plenty of point guards in Euroleague for example that are better than he is.

Rubio is a talent/project not an established European top player. Even though ESPN and all the other hype has made up that he is. He's one of the 5-10 best players in the Spanish League maybe, but then again that's very debatable and that might be overly generous. A lot of what NBA fans don't understand is that what team you play on in Europe is much more important than what league you play in.

In Europe the level players are on is mainly dictated by what team they play on. Example, if Rubio goes to Real Madrid he would still be in the Spanish League/Euroleague just like last year, however it would be a huge leap in level. To NBA fans they see no change and don't even understand what the big deal would be. That's because NBA fans view it as by what league you play in, NBA is NBA etc. In Europe the level you are on is much more to what team you play on. He would be in the same league but would be making a huge jump in reality in level.

That's because in European basketball the 12th-15th man on a big club can be better than the star player on a small club, even in the Euroleague or Spanish League. It's why NBA fans don't have any grasp on European basketball and make a big deal out of some American player getting on some European club and they use phrases like "American scrubs dominate Euroleague". When the truth is you could be the best player on small Euroleague club and the same player could not even make the roster of a big club. For example if Rubio was say the starting point guard of Real Madrid that is far, far above being the starting point guard on Joventut.

[SportsGuy8]

The easiest way for an American fan to understand this is to compare it to MLB where there's no salary cap.

In Euroleague there are 24 teams, from which like 5 teams that would compare to the NY Yankees (in terms of budget comparision vs. other teams in the league), 5 that would compare to lets say Boston Red Sox (perhaps a bit smaller, like White Sox or smth.), after that there's a big drop and you have a bunch (like 10) teams like San Diego or Florida Marlins, and in the end like 4 more teams that basically don't even belong in the league (in baseball that would be teams from lower leagues, not MLB).

Now, if we do the same for Spanish league, you would have 2 NY Yankees teams, 2 Boston Red Sox teams, then a few (like 4-5) San Diego Padres teams (Joventut included; it would be at the top of this group, though), and then there's quite a drop to other teams ...

Anyway, almost all the best players are pretty much playing for those couple top-tier teams (Yankees & Red Sox type of teams), then the level drops quite a bit with next group of teams, then another drop to next group etc.

P.s.: I'm speaking in terms of budget-relations between teams (and therefore what type of players they're able to sign), not results-wise. MLB is a league/sport that has so many factors (even big chance-factor), so it's not like in Euro-basketball where higher budget teams also win basically all the time, with very rare exceptions.

[RD&KG2]

Sounds terrible to watch, unless you like one of the big teams I suppose...

[shrink]

Thanks guys - this is helping me understand euroleague a lot better.

Perhaps the baseball analogy could be extended as well, where different leagues are like minor league baseball A, AA, and AAA, but the players don't have any affiliation with a major league team? Ricky being a young star player in A doesn't mean he won't be a superstar, but it'd look better if he was a star AAA player.

[jpatrick]

Would Pekovic be considered a Euroleague "star?" Did his team win the Euroleague championship last year and he was considered one of the better players on the team?

This discussion is actually very helpful. Thanks for sharing the information.

Is there any indication that Rubio would agree to be sold, for lack of a better term, to a different team in Europe. Since he has to sign a new contract this obviously couldn't happen without his consent.

[SportsGuy8]

Sounds terrible to watch, unless you like one of the big teams I suppose...

Yeah, smaller teams are basically just hoping year after year after year to once have a cinderella-type of a season ... but normally a team will end the season pretty much where it should have.

There is huge home-court advantage in Europe though (much bigger than in the NBA), so the smaller teams actually have a decent chance every time they're playing at home. On the other hand, when top teams are playing at home, 90%+ of the time it's a total snooze fest.

But anyway, overall, as said, teams just end the season being in the group of teams where they "belong".

P.s.: NBA wouldn't be much different if there was no salary cap. Although the budget differences would be considerably smaller.

[MagnusPinus]

Would Pekovic be considered a Euroleague "star?" Did his team win the Euroleague championship last year and he was considered one of the better players on the team?
.

Diego is a superstar in Europe. He is Shaq-like with his game.. Nobody can stop him,and he is still developing. He would be an amazing Nba player.. I just don't think he would be a nice fit with Big AL

[SportsGuy8]

Thanks guys - this is helping me understand euroleague a lot better.

Perhaps the baseball analogy could be extended as well, where different leagues are like minor league baseball A, AA, and AAA, but the players don't have any affiliation with a major league team? Ricky being a young star player in A doesn't mean he won't be a superstar, but it'd look better if he was a star AAA player.

Sadly I have no idea whatsoever (like NONE) about minor league baseball, so I can't give a real comment, although it does seem right what you wrote.

And btw., speaking of Rubio to Real Madrid, the one thing I really don't like is that it looks like Real Madrid is investing a lot into their team, they have high goals for next couple of seasons, which isn't the best situation for a young player that needs to develop (Rubio).

It would depend on a lot of things, obv., but I would be surprised if he got more than 15 mins per game. (probably even less ... depends what other PGs they plan to sign ...)

There's one positive thing, though, his coach would be Ettore Messina, who's like Gregg Popovich of Europe, and overall one of the top basketball masterminds in the world, so Ricky would be able to learn a lot.

[SportsGuy8]

Regarding Pekovic, I only saw him play a lil' lil' bit, but I have my doubts about him. I just don't see him being any better than a backup big in the NBA, if not worse ( *cough* bust *cough" ).

But, on the other hand, there's just not a lot of quality big men in the world, so who knows what can happen ... If Primoz Brezec can be a starter for an NBA team (Charlotte), anything can happen.

[KWSN-Men]

Sounds terrible to watch, unless you like one of the big teams I suppose...

Not at all. The Euroleague is the league of importance. Domestic leagues mainly matter for purposes of derby games or what you call rivalry games in the US. For example FC Barcelona against Real Madrid in Spain or the biggest sports rivalry in the world Panathinaikos against Olympiacos in Greece. Those games and then the playoffs in the bigger domestic leagues and the Euroleague games are what matter.

The rest is similar to the NBA regular season that doesn't matter much. A meaningless domestic league game would be like the average NBA regular season game with no defense and lax effort. However Euroleague games are usually extremely intense with very intense defense.

[KWSN-Men]

Would Pekovic be considered a Euroleague "star?" Did his team win the Euroleague championship last year and he was considered one of the better players on the team?

This discussion is actually very helpful. Thanks for sharing the information.

Is there any indication that Rubio would agree to be sold, for lack of a better term, to a different team in Europe. Since he has to sign a new contract this obviously couldn't happen without his consent.

Absolutely 100% Pekovic is a Euroleague star. He's not a Euroleague superstar, but he's not that far from it either. Give him a couple years and I think he would be. He's definitely a much bigger player than Rubio at this time. But again, Rubio's main draw is how good he is at his age. Pekovic is certainly better than Rubio by a lot right now, but then again Rubio is better than Pekovic was at age 18.

Yes, Pekovic's team won the Euroleague, actually they won the Triple Crown which is rare and even better. He was I would say around anywhere from the 3rd to the 6th best player Panathinaikos had. But that's where this gets confusing to NBA fans. Because being somewhere around 3-6 best player on Panathinaikos would be for example, easily the best player on Rubio's team Joventut.

[KWSN-Men]

Thanks guys - this is helping me understand euroleague a lot better.

Perhaps the baseball analogy could be extended as well, where different leagues are like minor league baseball A, AA, and AAA, but the players don't have any affiliation with a major league team? Ricky being a young star player in A doesn't mean he won't be a superstar, but it'd look better if he was a star AAA player.

Sadly I have no idea whatsoever (like NONE) about minor league baseball, so I can't give a real comment, although it does seem right what you wrote.

And btw., speaking of Rubio to Real Madrid, the one thing I really don't like is that it looks like Real Madrid is investing a lot into their team, they have high goals for next couple of seasons, which isn't the best situation for a young player that needs to develop (Rubio).

It would depend on a lot of things, obv., but I would be surprised if he got more than 15 mins per game. (probably even less ... depends what other PGs they plan to sign ...)

There's one positive thing, though, his coach would be Ettore Messina, who's like Gregg Popovich of Europe, and overall one of the top basketball masterminds in the world, so Ricky would be able to learn a lot.

That's true. On the one hand having Messina coach him would really improve him. He would be a lot better after Messina worked with him. On the other hand though the fact that Messina would be his coach and the way they are trying to build the roster and that they are trying to win the Euroleague - it's likely Rubio would play no more than 15 minutes a game. He could very well be used the same way Messina used Planinic and Zisis in CSKA. Still though it would be a lot better for his development I think than staying at Joventut.

[RD&KG2]

I guess the way I read what you guys were saying is that only about 5 teams even had a prayer of ever sniffing a championship, making it basically a 5 team league with a lot of blowout scrimmages. So, maybe more like the regular season of college basketball here in the US?

[Esohny]

Sounds terrible to watch, unless you like one of the big teams I suppose...

Not at all. The Euroleague is the league of importance. Domestic leagues mainly matter for purposes of derby games or what you call rivalry games in the US. For example FC Barcelona against Real Madrid in Spain or the biggest sports rivalry in the world Panathinaikos against Olympiacos in Greece. Those games and then the playoffs in the bigger domestic leagues and the Euroleague games are what matter.

The rest is similar to the NBA regular season that doesn't matter much. A meaningless domestic league game would be like the average NBA regular season game with no defense and lax effort. However Euroleague games are usually extremely intense with very intense defense.

I beg to differ. The biggest sports rivalry was obviously the Nazis Vs. The Allies in Victory. The Allies passed up the chance to escape because they cared about the game THAT much. No contest.

[SportsGuy8]

I guess the way I read what you guys were saying is that only about 5 teams even had a prayer of ever sniffing a championship, making it basically a 5 team league with a lot of blowout scrimmages. So, maybe more like the regular season of college basketball here in the US?

Well, college basketball could also be a very nice comparision.

For example, all the teams in college basketball division I in the US is like all the pro-basketball teams in better leagues in Europe, also top leagues could compare to top division I conferences (Spanish 1 league, Spanish 2, Italian 1, Italian 2, Greek, Adriatic league, French league, German league, Russian league ...). And then, you have the Euroleague, which is like "March Madness" in college basketball, just that it goes on for a whole season and there's also group stages (and only 24 teams actually qualify/are able to play in it).

[KWSN-Men]

I guess the way I read what you guys were saying is that only about 5 teams even had a prayer of ever sniffing a championship, making it basically a 5 team league with a lot of blowout scrimmages. So, maybe more like the regular season of college basketball here in the US?

You could say the NBA is only a 2 team league. Since the Celtics and Lakers have dominated the Finals having played in the majority of them and even won the majority of them. So no that's not right that the Euroleague is a 5 team league. Just like it's not right that the NBA is a 2 team league. It's more like a 14-16 team league, also 2-3 of the best European teams each year don't play in the league.

It may seem like a huge gap from what the top 5 Euroleague teams budgets are to all the other teams, however you have another 9-11 clubs that have budgets that allow them to sign any player they want at any cost as well. It's no different than the NBA where 4-5 teams just happen to like to spend more than the others.

[RD&KG2]

I guess the way I read what you guys were saying is that only about 5 teams even had a prayer of ever sniffing a championship, making it basically a 5 team league with a lot of blowout scrimmages. So, maybe more like the regular season of college basketball here in the US?

You could say the NBA is only a 2 team league. Since the Celtics and Lakers have dominated the Finals having played in the majority of them and even won the majority of them. So no that's not right that the Euroleague is a 5 team league. Just like it's not right that the NBA is a 2 team league. It's more like a 14-16 team league, also 2-3 of the best European teams each year don't play in the league.

It may seem like a huge gap from what the top 5 Euroleague teams budgets are to all the other teams, however you have another 9-11 clubs that have budgets that allow them to sign any player they want at any cost as well. It's no different than the NBA where 4-5 teams just happen to like to spend more than the others.

You could say that the NBA is a 2 team league, but I think 99% of people would think you were way off. Please understand that I am not trying to belittle or bring down Euro ball, I'm simply trying to understand it. I'm not so much talking about money (although I understand that it plays a big part of it) as much as I'm trying to understand what the competition is like.