ALL RUBIO TALK HERE

[KWSN-Men]

I guess the way I read what you guys were saying is that only about 5 teams even had a prayer of ever sniffing a championship, making it basically a 5 team league with a lot of blowout scrimmages. So, maybe more like the regular season of college basketball here in the US?

You could say the NBA is only a 2 team league. Since the Celtics and Lakers have dominated the Finals having played in the majority of them and even won the majority of them. So no that's not right that the Euroleague is a 5 team league. Just like it's not right that the NBA is a 2 team league. It's more like a 14-16 team league, also 2-3 of the best European teams each year don't play in the league.

It may seem like a huge gap from what the top 5 Euroleague teams budgets are to all the other teams, however you have another 9-11 clubs that have budgets that allow them to sign any player they want at any cost as well. It's no different than the NBA where 4-5 teams just happen to like to spend more than the others.

You could say that the NBA is a 2 team league, but I think 99% of people would think you were way off. Please understand that I am not trying to belittle or bring down Euro ball, I'm simply trying to understand it. I'm not so much talking about money (although I understand that it plays a big part of it) as much as I'm trying to understand what the competition is like.

Maybe this will help.

Spanish League = about 4 big clubs
Euroleague = about 20 big clubs

[Genjuro]

The latest report was that Real Madrid offered 3.5 million euros buyout to Joventut, plus Joventut can have Marko Tomas as well and Real will pay Tomas' entire salary. So Joventut would get 3.5 million euros plus Marko Tomas for a free salary cost in exchange for Real getting Rubio's rights.

You're forgetting that they are reporting also a 1 million euro salary for Rubio. Where are the 17 million dollar that you reported first here?

Gone with the wind.

Where are your manners? They never existed in the first place did they?

My manners towards you are right there with the 17 million. Meaning nowhere.

Just allow me to provide you a piece of advice: if you make up information, try to make it more credible.

A lot of what NBA fans don't understand is that what team you play on in Europe is much more important than what league you play in.

In Europe the level players are on is mainly dictated by what team they play on. Example, if Rubio goes to Real Madrid he would still be in the Spanish League/Euroleague just like last year, however it would be a huge leap in level. To NBA fans they see no change and don't even understand what the big deal would be. That's because NBA fans view it as by what league you play in, NBA is NBA etc. In Europe the level you are on is much more to what team you play on. He would be in the same league but would be making a huge jump in reality in level.

That's because in European basketball the 12th-15th man on a big club can be better than the star player on a small club, even in the Euroleague or Spanish League. It's why NBA fans don't have any grasp on European basketball and make a big deal out of some American player getting on some European club and they use phrases like "American scrubs dominate Euroleague". When the truth is you could be the best player on small Euroleague club and the same player could not even make the roster of a big club. For example if Rubio was say the starting point guard of Real Madrid that is far, far above being the starting point guard on Joventut.

Finally some good and really informative stuff. I agree 100%.

[Genjuro]

Does anyone have any idea when this lawsuit is supposed to arise? It was filed, like what, 6 months ago? They must have one heavy docket in the Spanish court system. I'm just wondering when we can expect a change in the status quo.

I think it was filled like late in May. The court hearing is scheduled for October the twenty something.

The justice system in Spain is SLOOOOOW.

[jgozalb]

I really can't stand this KWSN-Men. If you guys want real information regarding Rubio and Euro BBall pay attention to Genjuro's posts

[frangs]

I guess the way I read what you guys were saying is that only about 5 teams even had a prayer of ever sniffing a championship, making it basically a 5 team league with a lot of blowout scrimmages. So, maybe more like the regular season of college basketball here in the US?

There is one important detail that changes everything.
At least in the Spanish ACB, the 2 last teams at the end of the competition go down to an inferior league (LEB); I think it works similarly in the rest of European domestic competitions.

That makes that, among 18 or 20 teams, 4 or 5 are clearly always fighting for the title (Tau, Barcelona, Madrid, Unicaja, ...); 7 or 8 more play to get a place in the play-off and give the suprise (I remember a team like Manresa winning the competition against Barcelona, Madrid, etc.. very unusual though) and 4 or 5 (depending on the season) play for not being one of the last two teams at the end of the competition.

This way, almost every team is fighting for his own prize usually until the last game of the regular season. There you can see, let's say, a Menorca-Tau in the last game, which can be a life or death one, because Menorca winning will leave them in the ACB one more season and Tau is playing for ending in the first place of the regular season.
There is not such thing as tanking because the European leagues are not closed competitions as the NBA, so the prize for the last team is not a probable better place in the draft but a whole season playing in an inferior competition.

[Genjuro]

The ACB League is pretty competitive throughout the season. And even if there are clear cut better teams, the difference is usually not that blatantly huge.

It's interesting to check the average point differential in the past regular season of the elite ACB (Spanish league) teams:
- Tau Vitoria: +12.5 ppg in the ACB, +10.5 in the Euroleague
- F.C.Barcelona: +10.1 ppg in the ACB, +16.3 in the Euroleague
- Real Madrid: +5.1 ppg in the ACB, +3.3 ppg in the Euroleague
- Unicaja Málaga: +10.7 ppg in the ACB, +7.3 in the Euroleague

If you combine the four teams, there is barely any difference at all between both competitions (+9.6 ppg to +9.35 ppg).

So every time someone tells you there's a huge difference between the Euroleague and the ACB league, take it with a grain of salt. The Euroleague is obviously better, no question about that, but Ricky Rubio playing so well in the ACB League does mean something.

Let me provide you a list of all the international players from the Spanish league in the NBA last season:
Pau Gasol
Anderson Varejao
Andres Nocioni
Jose Manuel Calderon
Fabricio Oberto
Sergio Rodriguez
Walter Herrmann
Luis Scola
Rudy Fernandez
Marc Gasol

Perhaps except for Rodríguez and Herrmann, all these guys have been valuable for their teams at some point of their NBA careers. Actually Herrmann himself had a terrific stretch with the Bobcats like a couple of years ago (the only time he has been granted regular playing time). And the jury is still out on Rodríguez, who should have a much better chance to succeed with Westphal in Sacramento.

Even some of those who are not anymore in the NBA, like Garbajosa or Navarro, where useful players there, and couldn't continue their NBA tenure for other reasons (injury -Garbajosa- and buyout issues -Navarro-).

Try making a list from any other European domestic league and it doesn't come anywhere close to this one. This is not a guarantee, because some guy has failed after succeed in Spain (Macijauskas, for example), but faring well in the ACB is a pretty nice asset.

By the way, sources from his family are denying any deal between Rubio and Real Madrid: http://www.elmundodeportivo.es/gen/2009 ... adrid.html

[Devilzsidewalk]

hoopshype said Unicaja offered Rubio a 3 year deal, is that true

http://www.sportando.net/eng/europa/eur ... rubio.html

tagged at the top

[Genjuro]

hoopshype said Unicaja offered Rubio a 3 year deal, is that true

http://www.sportando.net/eng/europa/eur ... rubio.html

tagged at the top

It's hard to say what is and what isn't true at this point. I think it's probably true, but I highly doubt Rubio opts for this deal because of the length of the contract (despite the fact that he would love to play under the guidance of coach Aíto García Reneses again).

I still think Real Madrid is the most logical choice.

[Devilzsidewalk]

hopefully its 3 years with a reasonable buyout after 2

[SportsGuy8]

I still think it's clear that Rubio wants to go to the NBA as soon as possible.

The problem is that the best way to make that happen is to play it really hard vs. Joventut, but I don't think he wants to do that. It would be a pretty rough game to play and he would risk a lot by doing it.

Joventut realizes that they'll be able to get more money if Rubio signs with another Euro-team, so they won't "fold" easily, but I'm pretty sure that eventually they WOULD "fold" and just accept a reasonable buyout deal, but in an extreme case that could take a lot of time, during which Joventut could just prevent Rubio from playing at all for several months, which would be really bad for him.

Minnesota fans should hope that he doesn't give up ... (but I have a feeling that might happen)

P.s.: If it was me in Rubios shoes, I would totally play this rough game vs. Joventut, and press them as hard as I could, but I also play poker for a living, lol, so I'm not exactly a perfect example.

[KWSN-Men]

Unicaja Malaga will not only pay him €1.1 million euros net salary per year (= to something like a $3,000,000 a year NBA contract) they will also pay his entire buyout amount. In addition to this Rubio would like to play with his old coach in Joventut who is now the coach of Unicaja. This was the team that I thought all along he would end up with. But then it seemed they had zero interest all this time.

It should have been obvious though when they let their long time point guard Carlos Cabezas leave for a very reasonable contract to the Russian club Khimki.

http://www.diariosur.es/20090710/deport ... 90710.html

Ofensiva del Unicaja por Ricky Rubio. El club malagueño ha entrado de lleno en la puja por el joven talento catalán del DKV Joventut, club con el que negoció días atrás el desembarco en Málaga del número 5 del pasado 'draft' de la NBA. Eso sí, para que la operación salga adelante el jugador debe retirar la demanda que hace semanas interpuso contra su club precisamente por la elevada cláusula de rescisión de su contrato. Rubio se ha planteado por primera vez la posibilidad de aplazar su salto a la NBA después de que su futuro en la Liga americana no sea de su agrado (fue elegido por Minnesota Timberwolves).
Este periódico ya informó el 2 de abril de que el Unicaja había pedido precio por Ricky Rubio. Entonces el Joventut contempló la posibilidad de rebajar la cláusula del jugador, pero la relación entre el base y el Joventut se ha deteriorado de forma grave.
Ante la posibilidad de que Rubio retire la mencionada demanda, el Joventut se puso días atrás en contacto con el Unicaja y con el Real Madrid, los dos equipos que más interés han mostrado en hacerse con los servicios del base, con una cantidad de salida: cuatro millones de euros. Al parecer, el club malagueño puso sobre la mesa al jugador un contrato por tres temporadas a razón de un millón cien mil euros por campaña. El Unicaja quiere así rentabilizar la elevada inversión con un compromiso de larga duración. Por otro lado está la postura del Real Madrid, que ofreció al jugador un contrato por dos temporadas y libertad para marcharse a la NBA al final del mismo.
Aíto, al tanto
Según fuentes consultadas, el jugador prefiere la opción de recalar en Málaga, pues es conocida su buena relación y la de su familia con el entrenador del equipo malagueño. El técnico madrileño ha estado al tanto de todos estos movimientos. Sin embargo, Ricky quiere dar el salto a la NBA y la elevada duración del contrato que le oferta el Unicaja supone un serio inconveniente. Por otro lado, otras fuentes apuntan a que pueden surgir soluciones alternativas para que el club malagueño pueda hacer viable la operación en el apartado económico y a su vez poder recortar la duración del contrato.
El hecho de que el jugador y sus agentes no accedan a retirar la demanda contra el Joventut ha paralizado cualquier operación de traspaso. Fue el propio presidente del Joventut, Jordi Villacampa, el que se encargó de comunicar a los interlocutores del Unicaja y del Real Madrid que todos los contactos quedaban suspendidos. El Unicaja también maneja la opción de Marcelinho Huertas para la posición de base.




Paying him that type of salary and his whole buyout, plus it's Rubio's old coach that he loves so much and on top of that Unicaja has a guaranteed Euroleague contract and they are one of the big Spanish clubs and can compete for championships (they have a legit chance to win the Spanish Cup and Spanish Championship every year and even to challenge to make it to the Euroleague Final Four)...............yep it will be really hard for him to turn down an offer like that. One more thing, Malaga is like a paradise.

[Krapinsky]

[tviper]

Well, even if true (and I will believe it only when official), it just shows what a smart pick Flynn was by Kahn, to the chagrin of all the talking heads on ESPN.

[Esohny]

This isn't a horrible thing, depending on what the new buyout amount would be. It sounds like it would be a nice step up in competition for Rubio, and these guys are talking up the coach. So he develops further for a year or two on their dime against the best Euro competition? Like I said, if he has a reasonable buyout after a year, this is a win-win.

[SportsGuy8]

I'm afraid he wont have a reasonable buyout after a year, if this goes through (IMO there's still a big IF), I would expect Unicaja would want him for at least 2 seasons. As mentioned, it's not like he's already a superstar type of player, so they'd be investing an awful lot for just renting him for a year.

[Genjuro]

Unicaja Malaga will not only pay him €1.1 million euros net salary per year (= to something like a $3,000,000 a year NBA contract) they will also pay his entire buyout amount.

You should take some Spanish lessons. The article is talking about 4 million euros, not the entire buyout (which is 5.7).

Also, the article says that Rubio should first drop the lawsuit, and that means they want to negotiate the buyout with Joventut (and Joventut says they won't negotiate anything unless the lawsuit is dropped). If they were willing to pay the entire buyout, there would be nothing to negotiate with Joventut.

You don't seem to understand how buyouts work (like when you said Olympiakos was willing to offer 15 million to Joventut to buy his contract out).

Anyway, this is all speculation.

[yojimbo]

It's already been mentioned by several others, but I just wanted to thank all of you with knowledge of the European leagues for contributing - it's been very interesting & educational.

[KWSN-Men]

Unicaja Malaga will not only pay him €1.1 million euros net salary per year (= to something like a $3,000,000 a year NBA contract) they will also pay his entire buyout amount.

You should take some Spanish lessons. The article is talking about 4 million euros, not the entire buyout (which is 5.7).

Also, the article says that Rubio should first drop the lawsuit, and that means they want to negotiate the buyout with Joventut (and Joventut says they won't negotiate anything unless the lawsuit is dropped). If they were willing to pay the entire buyout, there would be nothing to negotiate with Joventut.

You don't seem to understand how buyouts work (like when you said Olympiakos was willing to offer 15 million to Joventut to buy his contract out).

Anyway, this is all speculation.

The bank of Unicaja said it would pay the buyout amount to what Joventut wants. That means the buyout number is pointless because what Joventut needs or wants the club would pay it. Basically, Rubio and the Wolves can't pay what Joventut needs but Unicaja can. The amount is kind of pointless. Paying it in full is what Joventut is asking for.

[KWSN-Men]

This isn't a horrible thing, depending on what the new buyout amount would be. It sounds like it would be a nice step up in competition for Rubio, and these guys are talking up the coach. So he develops further for a year or two on their dime against the best Euro competition? Like I said, if he has a reasonable buyout after a year, this is a win-win.

It's not the same coach we were talking about. Messina coaches in Real, this would be Rubio's old coach from Joventut who now coaches Unicaja. It's the coach that gave him the chance to play at the Olympics. It's the coach that gave him a green light to play however he wanted even as a kid. It's like Nash and D'Antoni type relationship if you will.

It would be better for him to go to Unicaja than Real. Messina would do a better job developing him but he would be on a bigger club with a much more demanding coach and a club with more depth. He would be like a 15 minute player in Real. In Unicaja he would be given the green light again by his old coach and play as long as he wanted and do whatever he wanted and play any style, etc. So he would be playing in the Euroleague every year guaranteed and on a club with a chance to compete for titles and playing for a coach that will let him do whatever he wants. It's the best possible scenario for his development before coming to the NBA.

However, it would not be for 1 year. The bank of Unicaja would pay his buyout if he signs a 3 year contract. That's the way I am seeing it. So he would spend the next 3 years with Unicaja and then he would come to the NBA.

[theGreatRC]

I can't complain if he signs with Unicaja.

1) Rubio gets to mature and grow as a player in his comfort zone surrounded by people who speak his language and a coach who has raised him basketball wise.

2) We get to see what Jonny Flynn can do as the main PG

Then in two years we have a PG prospect who is 20 years old who will be better than he is now, and if Flynn is a stud then we will have a possible trading piece for a position we need to fill, or we can roll with two PGs in the backcourt like Kahn wants.