STICKY: Hill stays, Frye signs, Nash very close to extension

ray ray · Post #141 » by **ray ray** » Sat Jul 11, 2009 1:19 am

the Suns need Aaron Afflalo... Go get him Kerr!!! A physical defendor who is still young... A Raja Bell type of player.

Orange_Blooded · Post #142 » by **Orange_Blooded** » Sat Jul 11, 2009 1:19 am

Sweet, finally a day of good news for PHX fan and it came all at once. I know other teams have passed us and we haven't done much this off season but if we can stay healthy and on the same page I think we can still get a top 4 seed(maybe even 2 or 3 if luck breaks our way).... at least top 6. Not where we wanna be but its better than watching the playoffs from home again.

Although I guess it's a moot point until we find out the deal with Amare's peeper.

RaisingArizona · Post #143 » by **RaisingArizona** » Sat Jul 11, 2009 1:22 am

SAS and LAL can obviously beat the crap out of us in a 7 game series.

However we could probably now compete with the Nuggets, Hornets, Mavericks, Jazz, Rockets, Blazers for the 3/4 seed.

YouTube · Post #144 » by **Kerrsed** » Sat Jul 11, 2009 1:23 am

NapoleonII wrote:Borat is so 2006.

ruiner · Post #145 » by **ruiner** » Sat Jul 11, 2009 1:24 am

rsavaj wrote:Nash/Hill are getting blasted on other boards man...some Knicks fan wished death on Hil and called his wife a whore, another wished him a career ending injury.

At least we're not irrelevant anymore!

They're truly pathetic.

They react this way to not getting Hill, wait until they fall short on getting Bron, Wade, Bosh, or Amare.

Post #146 » by **rsavaj** » Sat Jul 11, 2009 1:27 am

DX report on Frye

That injury really effed him up

NBA Scouting Reports, Northwest Division (Part Three)
September 16, 2008
Overview:A long, athletic power forward who provides very nice depth and is an asset thanks to his combination of physical tools and high skill-level. Possesses a big wingspan and adequate size for both post positions. Could stand to get stronger to improve his ability to hold position on the block. Has added weight since entering the League, but more certainly wouldn’t hurt. Offers some versatility offensively with his ability to play high or low in the paint. An average defender who struggles to stay out of foul trouble. Had an extremely efficient four year career at Arizona, but wasn’t a dominant force by any means. Played his way into the lottery with by using his size and touch to shoot a very impressive percentage from the field. Had a great rookie season being named to the All-Rookie first team, but has seen his numbers decline in each season since, partially due to injuries. Has been criticized at times for a certain lack of toughness. Will show signs of potential, but needs to have a consistent role. Brings a lot to the table off the floor. One of the good guys in the League.

Offense: A quality offensive big man who hasn’t put up the same numbers since his outstanding rookie season. Gets about half of his touches from a combination of pick and rolls and spot up opportunities. Will also get some opportunities to post up and makes some scoring chances for himself by working on the offensive glass and moving without the ball. A classic modern day power forward due to his ability to space the floor from the outside, but still make plays around the hoop thanks to his length and athleticism. Has extremely soft touch from the perimeter for a player his size, but tends to fall in love with his jumper at times. Possesses textbook form. Has range out to college three point range, and sometimes beyond. Surprisingly capable shooter off the dribble. Tends to float when he pulls up going left. Capable of putting the ball on the floor one or two times to score, but isn’t going to break anyone down with a crossover anytime soon. Pretty perimeter oriented for a big man, but shoots a solid percentage from the field regardless. Has good hands and the athleticism needed to finish plays effectively at the rim, but usually not with authority. Doesn’t take contact very well, and goes to the line at just a decent rate. Struggles to get good position on the block and doesn’t have a great deal of moves in the paint. Has a well developed face up game, and loves to drive to his right and use a smooth running hook when he can get his man off balance. Works well off the ball and gives and effort on the offensive glass. Moves the ball well, but isn’t a flashy passer. Doesn’t turn the ball over as often as most big men who like to play outside. Generally has a good feel for the game and a nice skill-level. Brings a lot to the table on the offensive end in that he is big enough to play center and make plays around the rim, but can also stretch the floor as a PF for a low-post big man like Greg Oden or LaMarcus Aldridge. Would likely be able to put up very good numbers on a team without as much talent in the frontcourt.

Defense: Has the size, length and athleticism to be effective at times, but lacks the strength or toughness to live up to his potential on this end. Will get pushed around by bigger players on a regular basis and usually doesn’t offer much resistance. Has a hard time holding position. Capable of defending some power forwards, but has just average fundamentals and awareness out on the perimeter. Not able to come over from the weakside to block shots like he used to. Can’t hedge pick and rolls to the same extent either. Rebounds the ball at a respectable clip. Is extremely foul prone on a per-minute basis. Has a lot of room for improvement on this end of the floor, and will have to do so if he wants to see playing time under Nate McMillan.

JohnVancouver · Post #147 » by **JohnVancouver** » Sat Jul 11, 2009 1:32 am

I'll make it simple. The Suns are over the luxury tax. They are at 75 mil. The lux tax is at 71. So anything they owe after 71 is doubled. So they owe 75 which means they have to pay 4 mil to the player, and 4 mil to tax. That being said, the Suns are buying out Ben Wallace for 10 mil. on his 14 mil contract. So we still pay him 10 mil that counts against our salary but the other 4 mil is taken off. Which means we reduce our salary to 71 mil. So we don't pay any luxury tax, thus saving 4 mil from Ben Wallace's contract and 4 mil from the luxury tax.
Then we buyout Sasha, which reduces our salary even more.
So yes you are correct lol.[/quote]

How it was explained to me, even if we buyout Wallace (or any player) the total amount of that contract stays on the books for that year. So the full $14m counts toward the cap. But we save the tax penalty.

BurningHeart · Post #148 » by **BurningHeart** » Sat Jul 11, 2009 1:50 am

Get a center who can rebound and defend, and sign Linas Kleiza because I feel like we need a swingman to trust with the outside shooting on an SSOL squad. The only guys I feel confident shooting threes are Nash, Barbosa, and Richardson. Not good enough.

Post #149 » by **KJ7** » Sat Jul 11, 2009 1:54 am

You're right JV. The Pav situation is different however as (as far as I know) only the guaranteed part of the contract counts towards our cap.

All of Ben's contract is guaranteed and therefore regardless of what we pay him out at 14m will count towards our cap for the entire season ...

Now having said that if we save 4m (pay him out at 10m) for the season then we can use that 4m to pay part of the tax. I think that's where ppl get confused. You really need to separate what teams *actually* pay and what the team's cap is.

Orange_Blooded · Post #150 » by **Orange_Blooded** » Sat Jul 11, 2009 1:55 am

ginobiliflops wrote:SAS and LAL can obviously beat the crap out of us in a 7 game series.

However we could probably now compete with the Nuggets, Hornets, Mavericks, Jazz, Rockets, Blazers for the 3/4 seed.

Exactly what I'm saying, we might be able to compete for 3-4... and if LAL OR SAS happen to catch a bad break, like an injury to Timmy or Kobe then we may have a chance to get to 2.

I'd say we're likely to end up between 4-6, Although the West is looking very deep. I don't see houston making the playoffs unless Mcgrady somehow returns to health for a majority of the season. So im thinking we SHOULD get in the top 8 since I don't think anyone that finished behind us has jumped over us.

tigerblood · Post #151 » by **tigerblood** » Sat Jul 11, 2009 2:24 am

Don't rule out the possibility of Clark being a stud

garrick · Post #152 » by **garrick** » Sat Jul 11, 2009 2:45 am

That's the best move Kerr has done so far, too bad he couldn't get Dice or any of the other FA's out there though.

Post #153 » by **Qwigglez** » Sat Jul 11, 2009 2:57 am

rsavaj wrote:Sup Brandon. Btw, Amare's not averaging 10 boards per game.

What makes you so sure..?
Check this out. Ever since Amare's rookie year he's had someone to rebound for him (Marion, Shaq). But now, neither of those guys are there.
During the 2007-2008 season, Amare was averaging 25 points and 9 boards per game. Last year Shaq was averaging 8.5 boards per game. Well someone is gonna have to grab those boards this upcoming season, might as well be the man in the middle. I don't see Frye, Lopez, Clark, or Lou grabbing all those boards.
If Amare is healthy he will get 25 and 10. Guarantee it.

ray ray · Post #154 » by **ray ray** » Sat Jul 11, 2009 3:05 am

Quick questions to anybody who might know, its Alando Tucker contract guarantee? I though I saw somewhere that if we cut him before Oct its no guarantee.. Anyone??

Wormwood74 · Post #155 » by **Wormwood74** » Sat Jul 11, 2009 3:10 am

I've watched virtually every Suns game over the past 5 years, and a LITTLE bit of background in modeling and statistics when it comes to basketball, so I'm no newb to analysis.

Lopez does not project to have a tremendous upside either statistically, or based on watching him.

1. His post moves are mechanical. This usually doesn't change a lot.
2. Bad hands. This is also a trait that doesn't tend to improve much over one's career (Kwame Brown, for example).
3. Rebounding rate. Lopez was a poor rebounder for a center in college, and his rates in the pros were pretty similar. It is pretty unusual for a poor rebounder to become a good one.
4. Lopez played 614 minutes last season...greater than the amount (500) John Hollinger (and many other analysts) consider sufficient for achieving reasonable statistical validity of individual stats on a per 48 minute basis.

Lopez has upside, but it is not extremely high. He may in time become a good defensive player and ok rebounder, but overall his lack of shooting range, offensive ability, and rebounding will prevent him from being much more than a good back up.

Amare Stoudemire has played starting center (2004-2005, 2007-2008), but he complained about it in 2005 and it was the impetus for trading Q. Richardson for Kurt Thomas. Amare is a poor rebounder for a PF (48th out of 77 in rebounding rate), and even worse when measured against centers. His post defense is poor at best. He doesn't keep his center of gravity low enough, uses poor leverage, and allows players with a back to the basket game to establish whatever position they want. During the 2006-2007 season I went back and tracked how various Suns players did guarding Tim Duncan watching games recorded on TiVo... Kurt Thomas held him to 45% shooting, Diaw 63%, and Amare allowed him to score 75% of the time when Duncan iso'd on him over the course of 4 games. Amare also has never been noted for his speed in reacting to penetration by opposing guards or wings... As evidence he drew only 9 charges in 2008.

Center is not Amare's natural position, and in the past he has resented having to play it. Additionally, basketball experts such as Dean Olliver in his book "Basketball on Paper" make convincing statistical arguments using 20 years of historical that without good big men anchoring your defense, it is nearly imposible to have good overall team defense, whereas the reverse with guards is not true. This further tends to degrade the argument that Amare should play center, as it undermines the team defensively. Instead, Amare needs to be paired up with a center like Kurt Thomas was, whose rebounding, shooting, footwork, anticipation, post defense fundamentals all fit very well into the Phoenix gameplan, until he became too expensive.

+1

Post #156 » by **Qwigglez** » Sat Jul 11, 2009 3:20 am

Wormwood74 wrote:I've watched virtually every Suns game over the past 5 years, and a LITTLE bit of background in modeling and statistics when it comes to basketball, so I'm no newb to analysis.

Lopez does not project to have a tremendous upside either statistically, or based on watching him.

1. His post moves are mechanical. This usually doesn't change a lot.
2. Bad hands. This is also a trait that doesn't tend to improve much over one's career (Kwame Brown, for example).
3. Rebounding rate. Lopez was a poor rebounder for a center in college, and his rates in the pros were pretty similar. It is pretty unusual for a poor rebounder to become a good one.
4. Lopez played 614 minutes last season...greater than the amount (500) John Hollinger (and many other analysts) consider sufficient for achieving reasonable statistical validity of individual stats on a per 48 minute basis.

Lopez has upside, but it is not extremely high. He may in time become a good defensive player and ok rebounder, but overall his lack of shooting range, offensive ability, and rebounding will prevent him from being much more than a good back up.

Amare Stoudemire has played starting center (2004-2005, 2007-2008), but he complained about it in 2005 and it was the impetus for trading Q. Richardson for Kurt Thomas. Amare is a poor rebounder for a PF (48th out of 77 in rebounding rate), and even worse when measured against centers. His post defense is poor at best. He doesn't keep his center of gravity low enough, uses poor leverage, and allows players with a back to the basket game to establish whatever position they want. During the 2006-2007 season I went back and tracked how various Suns players did guarding Tim Duncan watching games recorded on TiVo... Kurt Thomas held him to 45% shooting, Diaw 63%, and Amare allowed him to score 75% of the time when Duncan iso'd on him over the course of 4 games. Amare also has never been noted for his speed in reacting to penetration by opposing guards or wings... As evidence he drew only 9 charges in 2008.

Center is not Amare's natural position, and in the past he has resented having to play it. Additionally, basketball experts such as Dean Olliver in his book "Basketball on Paper" make convincing statistical arguments using 20 years of historical that without good big men anchoring your defense, it is nearly imposible to have good overall team defense, whereas the reverse with guards is not true. This further tends to degrade the argument that Amare should play center, as it undermines the team defensively. Instead, Amare needs to be paired up with a center like Kurt Thomas was, whose rebounding, shooting, footwork, anticipation, post defense fundamentals all fit very well into the Phoenix gameplan, until he became too expensive.

+1

If only the Suns could get a center that was attainable. I really wanted Tyson Chandler, but all these "sources" say he is "damaged goods". I'm thinking, the Suns have the best medical staff, they should be able to revive his career like they have with others.
Tyson Chandler would be a perfect combo with Amare... IF healthy.

WTFsunsFTW · Post #157 » by **WTFsunsFTW** » Sat Jul 11, 2009 3:30 am

KJ7 wrote:You're right JV. The Pav situation is different however as (as far as I know) only the guaranteed part of the contract counts towards our cap.

All of Ben's contract is guaranteed and therefore regardless of what we pay him out at 14m will count towards our cap for the entire season ...

Now having said that if we save 4m (pay him out at 10m) for the season then we can use that 4m to pay part of the tax. I think that's where ppl get confused. You really need to separate what teams *actually* pay and what the team's cap is.

I believe that is false. Since both parties agree to the buyout, the buyout amount is what is one the books, making the original contract amount irrelevant. The buyout essentially is mutually voiding out the guarantee of money/services.

Wayne Kerr · Post #158 » by **Wayne Kerr** » Sat Jul 11, 2009 3:43 am

I do not care what any "experts" or posters who think they might know everything say...

Channing Frye, will be a very good player for us! if he starts or doesnt! he will be kurt thomas (better shooter) he wont be nearly as good on d as kurt was but he will open up are offense and open the lane for amare! Amare will Be talked about again in the upper part of best players in the league, by the end of next year.

Summer of '10

Frye who will have a great year for us will then leave for a much bigger contract (joe, t.thomas, house, hunter)

and Amare Will opt out after prooving himself to the world AGAIN that he is a top/max player.

Amare 09-10 28,10,2,1.7
Frye 09-10 14,7,1,1 (if starting or getting good min.)

Knicks welcome your new future player AMARE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Suns will make the playoffs! there are not 8 teams in the west better then the suns.....

i say 5 seed for us......

Post #159 » by **rsavaj** » Sat Jul 11, 2009 3:46 am

i'm fine with saying that we're probably a playoff team, but we're absolutely brutal on D and without Shaq we're going to get killed on the boards again. Remember what that was like?

We NEED another piece. This is not enough to be a top 5 seed in the West. Amare and Frye is a pretty abominable defensive frontcourt pairing.

BurningHeart · Post #160 » by **BurningHeart** » Sat Jul 11, 2009 3:50 am

rsavaj wrote:i'm fine with saying that we're probably a playoff team, but we're absolutely brutal on D and without Shaq we're going to get killed on the boards again. Remember what that was like?

We NEED another piece. This is not enough to be a top 5 seed in the West. Amare and Frye is a pretty abominable defensive frontcourt pairing.

There's gotta be something else.