ALL RUBIO TALK HERE

[dennis00]

What's up with Rubio scoring only 8 points and 6 assists per game in Euro league?

[Vindicater]

Can someone please explain to me why his buyout is so huge when his actual salary is tiny (compared to his buyout that is)

His buyout isn't that big actually, that's just US media making a propaganda to Americans. It's common place in Europe for young athletes to have such buyouts in their contracts.

Why do you need to talk about media propaganda? The bold section would have been sufficient (although it still does not fully answer my question)

His buyout isn't that big actually

Compared to his actual salary (which is what I asked) I would say its huge. Do you have examples of other European players who have such absurd differences between their buyouts and salaries?

[Genjuro]

Now that I think about it, why does he even have to honor that contract? He didn't sign it. It would seem logical to me that anything his parents signed when he was underage should be void now that he's over 18.

He signed the raise he got this season which was a contract agreeing to the original contract and buyout and gaining a big raise. Therefore, he legally validated the contract and agreed to it. In just about any western court of law that is the case.

Also, keep in mind that US media purposely chooses to omit the fact that he was given a large raise. They choose on purpose to omit that he signed that raise which was put to the original contract, therefore he signed and agreed on the original deal and buyout. Also, US media purposely chooses to omit his salary raise whenever they state what his supposed income with Joventut is.

Again making up stuff? Don't you ever get tired?

Rubio didn't sign any raise. It was a unilateral raise made by Joventut (Rubio wanted a lower buyout, so they never got to agree to a new contract), and there wasn't anything signed.

Actually, I've read somewhere that Joventut could even drop his salary back for the next season, did he decide to stay with the team, since there's no contract signed that commands Joventut to pay him the 200,000 euros he got this past season (his original salary was about 70,000 euros). But I'm not sure about this one.

[Genjuro]

Do you have examples of other European players who have such absurd differences between their buyouts and salaries?

This happens every single day in soccer.

For example, Cristiano Ronaldo -world's best paid soccer player- has just signed with Real Madrid a contract that will pay him 13 million net euros with a 1 billion buyout. That's a pretty similar proportion to Ricky's, and actually more disproportionated if we talk about Rubio's buyout before June the 30th.

However, the most disproportionated contracts are NBA ones: no buyout clause at all.

[KWSN-Men]

What's up with Rubio scoring only 8 points and 6 assists per game in Euro league?

False stats. He never averaged anything close to numbers that high in Euroleague. He has 2 years of Euroleague experience and these were his numbers.

First year of Euroleague Rubio averaged:

34.8 FG%
16.7 3 PT%
76.7 FT%

3.6 points, 2.8 assists, 2.4 rebounds, 3.2 steals

Second year of Euroleague Rubio averaged:

30.0 FG
33.3 3 PT%
62.5 FT%

2.4 points, 2.8 assists, 2.4 rebounds, 1.8 steals

[KWSN-Men]

Can someone please explain to me why his buyout is so huge when his actual salary is tiny (compared to his buyout that is)

His buyout isn't that big actually, that's just US media making a propaganda to Americans. It's common place in Europe for young athletes to have such buyouts in their contracts.

Why do you need to talk about media propaganda? The bold section would have been sufficient (although it still does not fully answer my question)

His buyout isn't that big actually

Compared to his actual salary (which is what I asked) I would say its huge. Do you have examples of other European players who have such absurd differences between their buyouts and salaries?

Absurd? It's nice to know that. Maybe you should offer your legal services to Rubio then.

[KWSN-Men]

Now that I think about it, why does he even have to honor that contract? He didn't sign it. It would seem logical to me that anything his parents signed when he was underage should be void now that he's over 18.

He signed the raise he got this season which was a contract agreeing to the original contract and buyout and gaining a big raise. Therefore, he legally validated the contract and agreed to it. In just about any western court of law that is the case.

Also, keep in mind that US media purposely chooses to omit the fact that he was given a large raise. They choose on purpose to omit that he signed that raise which was put to the original contract, therefore he signed and agreed on the original deal and buyout. Also, US media purposely chooses to omit his salary raise whenever they state what his supposed income with Joventut is.

Again making up stuff? Don't you ever get tired?

Rubio didn't sign any raise. It was a unilateral raise made by Joventut (Rubio wanted a lower buyout, so they never got to agree to a new contract), and there wasn't anything signed.

Actually, I've read somewhere that Joventut could even drop his salary back for the next season, did he decide to stay with the team, since there's no contract signed that commands Joventut to pay him the 200,000 euros he got this past season (his original salary was about 70,000 euros). But I'm not sure about this one.

Stop making stuff up.

[KWSN-Men]

And in case you were wondering what Rubio's career Euroleague statistics are:

33.9 FG%
19.0 3 PT%
73.7 FT%

3.3 points per game
2.8 assists per game
2.4 rebounds per game
2.9 steals per game

[Genjuro]

He signed the raise he got this season which was a contract agreeing to the original contract and buyout and gaining a big raise. Therefore, he legally validated the contract and agreed to it. In just about any western court of law that is the case.

Also, keep in mind that US media purposely chooses to omit the fact that he was given a large raise. They choose on purpose to omit that he signed that raise which was put to the original contract, therefore he signed and agreed on the original deal and buyout. Also, US media purposely chooses to omit his salary raise whenever they state what his supposed income with Joventut is.

Again making up stuff? Don't you ever get tired?

Rubio didn't sign any raise. It was a unilateral raise made by Joventut (Rubio wanted a lower buyout, so they never got to agree to a new contract), and there wasn't anything signed.

Actually, I've read somewhere that Joventut could even drop his salary back for the next season, did he decide to stay with the team, since there's no contract signed that commands Joventut to pay him the 200,000 euros he got this past season (his original salary was about 70,000 euros). But I'm not sure about this one.

Stop making stuff up.

http://www.penya.com/noticia.php?id=10493

Unilateral. Valid for the 2008/09 season.

Get me a link with the signing (rethoric demand).

Don't you ever get tired of getting embarrassed? (I must admit I don't get tired myself of embarrassing you).

[KWSN-Men]

Don't you ever get tired of getting embarrassed? (I must admit I don't get tired myself of embarrassing you).

Stop making stuff up.

[SportsGuy8]

He signed the raise he got this season which was a contract agreeing to the original contract and buyout and gaining a big raise. Therefore, he legally validated the contract and agreed to it. In just about any western court of law that is the case.

Also, keep in mind that US media purposely chooses to omit the fact that he was given a large raise. They choose on purpose to omit that he signed that raise which was put to the original contract, therefore he signed and agreed on the original deal and buyout. Also, US media purposely chooses to omit his salary raise whenever they state what his supposed income with Joventut is.

I have one problem with your posts: everything you write/say, you write/say it like it's an absolute truth, a fact. But, every thinking person DOUBTS. Cogito ergo sum. You have to doubt that what you read/think/know is not the absolute 100% truth and leave some "room" for other options/possibilities.

In this example, you're saying it like it's an absolute truth, while in reality you surely don't know all the facts, same as "US media" for example ... Both similarly at fault, IMHO.

I'm aware that a big majority of people think/operate like that, but they don't claim to have an IQ of 197 , so I don't mind that much. In your case, though, I'm dissapointed ...

However, the most disproportionated contracts are NBA ones: no buyout clause at all.

The same goes for you.
You're basically doing the same thing you're accusing KWSN of ... talking without knowing/considering all the facts.

In a way, "buyouts" can and do happen also in the NBA, for example when both the player & the team agree that that's in everyones best interest.

You'll probably say that's different, as both the player & the team have to agree, BUT even in Europe, a big majority of players don't have a specific buyout clause, so when it comes to a buyout, the team has to agree with it. For example, in Cristiano Ronaldos case, Man Utd could just say that they don't want to sell him ...

But, on the other hand, you don't claim to have an IQ of 197, so I'll cut you some slack.

P.s.: As for Ronaldo's "1 billion buyout", even if it's true, you surely don't think that's anything else than a marketing thing. You think they wouldn't agree to sell him for 300 million, heck, even 200 million, if someone was willing to pay that for him? Especially if Ronaldo wanted to leave ...
Anyway, bottom line is that you really can't compare that number/situation to Rubios number/situation, even half-jokingly.

[SportsGuy8]

And in case you were wondering what Rubio's career Euroleague statistics are:

33.9 FG%
19.0 3 PT%
73.7 FT%

3.3 points per game
2.8 assists per game
2.4 rebounds per game
2.9 steals per game

I know you're just stating exact numbers, but you have to at least mention why those numbers look like that. You're like trying to make Rubio look bad.

For those that don't know: those numbers come from 2 seasons, in 1st Rubio was only 16 (I think; 3 seasons ago), and in 2nd Rubio only played like 5 games with INJURED shooting hand (first weeks after coming off surgery ... then Joventut's Euroleague season ended).

[KWSN-Men]

He signed the raise he got this season which was a contract agreeing to the original contract and buyout and gaining a big raise. Therefore, he legally validated the contract and agreed to it. In just about any western court of law that is the case.

Also, keep in mind that US media purposely chooses to omit the fact that he was given a large raise. They choose on purpose to omit that he signed that raise which was put to the original contract, therefore he signed and agreed on the original deal and buyout. Also, US media purposely chooses to omit his salary raise whenever they state what his supposed income with Joventut is.

I have one problem with your posts: everything you write/say, you write/say it like it's an absolute truth, a fact. But, every thinking person DOUBTS. Cogito ergo sum. You have to doubt that what you read/think/know is not the absolute 100% truth and leave some "room" for other options/possibilities.

In this example, you're saying it like it's an absolute truth, while in reality you surely don't know all the facts, same as "US media" for example ... Both similarly at fault, IMHO.

I'm aware that a big majority of people think/operate like that, but they don't claim to have an IQ of 197 , so I don't mind that much. In your case, though, I'm dissapointed ...

However, the most disproportionated contracts are NBA ones: no buyout clause at all.

The same goes for you.
You're basically doing the same thing you're accusing KWSN of ... talking without knowing/considering all the facts.

In a way, "buyouts" can and do happen also in the NBA, for example when both the player & the team agree that that's in everyones best interest.

You'll probably say that's different, as both the player & the team have to agree, BUT even in Europe, a big majority of players don't have a specific buyout clause, so when it comes to a buyout, the team has to agree with it. For example, in Cristiano Ronaldos case, Man Utd could just say that they don't want to sell him ...

But, on the other hand, you don't claim to have an IQ of 197, so I'll cut you some slack.

P.s.: As for Ronaldo's "1 billion buyout", even if it's true, you surely don't think that's anything else than a marketing thing. You think they wouldn't agree to sell him for 300 million, heck, even 200 million, if someone was willing to pay that for him? Especially if Ronaldo wanted to leave ...
Anyway, bottom line is that you really can't compare that number/situation to Rubios number/situation, even half-jokingly.

You have an unhealthy obsession with other people's IQ scores. Wow, amazing how easy it is to duplicate the level of some people's posts here.

[Genjuro]

However, the most disproportionated contracts are NBA ones: no buyout clause at all.

The same goes for you.
You're basically doing the same thing you're accusing KWSN of ... talking without knowing/considering all the facts.

In a way, "buyouts" can and do happen also in the NBA, for example when both the player & the team agree that that's in everyones best interest.

You'll probably say that's different, as both the player & the team have to agree, BUT even in Europe, a big majority of players don't have a specific buyout clause, so when it comes to a buyout, the team has to agree with it. For example, in Cristiano Ronaldos case, Man Utd could just say that they don't want to sell him ...

But, on the other hand, you don't claim to have an IQ of 197, so I'll cut you some slack.

P.s.: As for Ronaldo's "1 billion buyout", even if it's true, you surely don't think that's anything else than a marketing thing. You think they wouldn't agree to sell him for 300 million, heck, even 200 million, if someone was willing to pay that for him? Especially if Ronaldo wanted to leave ...
Anyway, bottom line is that you really can't compare that number/situation to Rubios number/situation, even half-jokingly.

Of course buyouts can happen in the NBA, but they are not in the contract. If the team doesn't want to let you go, you're a prisioner.

And yes, in many European countries there are no buyouts. I think it's mostly a Spanish thing. Here we have a law stating that a player can leave a team as long as he pays a fair compensation that will be ruled on court, unless there's an amount previously agreed on the contract. Obviously teams prefer to use their own buyouts, because the amount would probably be lower if it was a court ruling it.

But anyway, when you sign a contract, you have more rights in Spain, since you can actually leave your team, even if in exchange of a ridiculously big buyout. At least there's something. Then you can negotiate in the NBA, as you can do as well in Spain.

Regarding Cristiano's buyout, it's all over the Internet. Of course those are different situations, but I wanted to picture that, even the most valued player gets a ridiculously high buyout (also it was a lot easier to check Cristiano's buyout on the Internet rather than some scrub's). And they would agree to a lower buyout for Cristiano Ronaldo. Actually 200 million is way too much. Just take into account that no other team than Real Madrid would have paid 100 million, so if Real Madrid was forced to sell him, I would never expect anything over 90 million, for example.

[KWSN-Men]

but you have to at least mention why those numbers look like that. You're like trying to make Rubio look bad.

You are falsely accusing me of things. I did nothing but state his numbers. Everything you said there is a baseless and false accusation against me.

[Knicksick]

Hey guys I'm from europe so I know a little more about Rubio then the average american NBA fan.
First off let me say (like I said many times before), there is no way I believe the Knicks can trade for Rubio (we simply do not have the pieces) BUT I believe Minnesota would be WAY better off trading the rights to Rubio to some team for a good play at a position of need. Why?
Because Rubio's value is NOT going to be higher once he starts playing in the NBA IMO. Rubio is a very good basketball player and all, but he is NOT a future superstar type of player IMO. I hear the comparison to Steve Nash but court vision aside I just don't see a high similarity. Nash has ALWAYS been a terrific shooter--shot 40% from three in his first NBA season. Rubio is gonna be lucky if he shoots 40% from two in his first season.I keep hearing guys asking why Rubio averaged only a few points in his last seasons?Well because he doesn't have a shot and he isn't explosive either so that he could slash to the basket at will. He is VERY VERY limited offensively. I know he is just 19 and is gonna improve but honestly --how many guys do you know that have been weak shooters at 19 and then improve into terrific shooters later on?Really there are barely a few , if at all. I don't think that Rubio is gonna average more than 15points a game throughout his career--he is simply not a good scorer period.
For NBA standard he isn't even an average athlete---he is quick but not explosive or athletic. Below average athlete. You have a combination of a poor shooter and below average athlete. His defense is good in europe, but how is he gonna fare against those explosive,high flying NBA guards?
The comparison to Jason Kidd is also totally off. They have two things in common---excellent court vision but weak jumpshot. That aside Kidd in his prime was quicker than Ricky and WAY stronger--Kidd averaged 8rebounds because he is a strong,quick guy at 6'4. Ricky has a tiny frame and a slim built. I'd be astonished if he ever averaged mor than 4-5 rebounds a game if at all. IF you wanna hear numbers then I'd say Ricky in his best years is gonna average 13points/11assists/3rebounds with ok defense. He might improve on offense to the point where he can average 15 points but that's it.

At the end of the day he is gonna be a terrific passer,good point guard with excellent court vision. He is gonna be much closer too a rich version of Brevin Knight than a two time MVP like Steve Nash.
If Kahn can turn around and trade him for an all-star type of talent he should have made out like a bandit. I think if you guys really wait two years for Ricky then you'll be severaly dissapointed--contrary to what Kahn says Ricky is NOT all that. Memphis,Oklahoma and Sacramento did NOT pass on Ricky because of the buyout situation or Ricky's threats---if any of those guys thought Ricky was that can't miss, surefire all-star/superstar type of talent they would have picked him hands down--None of those teams was adding "the final part of a championship puzzle". None of those teams is likely to make the playoffs next season--none of those teams has a superb,top pure PG. Granted Westbrook and Conley are solid but if either of those teams thought that Ricky was gonna be much better they could have easily traded their current PGs.
Ricky even said that he liked the idea of playing for Sacramento and the Kings were picking 4th after Thabeet and Harden were gone---they still passed on a Rubio that was ready to join them. Rubio is a product of a huge hype machine like Bargnani (1st overall pick) and Milicic (2nd overall pick). The biggest reason for that is the fact that he gave his debut at the age of 15 which is amazing---BUT he really didn't improve certain aspects of his game much in the past 4 years.

[SportsGuy8]

Of course buyouts can happen in the NBA, but they are not in the contract. If the team doesn't want to let you go, you're a prisioner.

And yes, in many European countries there are no buyouts. I think it's mostly a Spanish thing. Here we have a law stating that a player can leave a team as long as he pays a fair compensation that will be ruled on court, unless there's an amount previously agreed on the contract. Obviously teams prefer to use their own buyouts, because the amount would probably be lower if it was a court ruling it.

But anyway, when you sign a contract, you have more rights in Spain, since you can actually leave your team, even if in exchange of a ridiculously big buyout. At least there's something. Then you can negotiate in the NBA, as you can do as well in Spain.

Regarding Cristiano's buyout, it's all over the Internet. Of course those are different situations, but I wanted to picture that, even the most valued player gets a ridiculously high buyout (also it was a lot easier to check Cristiano's buyout on the Internet rather than some scrub's). And they would agree to a lower buyout for Cristiano Ronaldo. Actually 200 million is way too much. Just take into account that no other team than Real Madrid would have paid 100 million, so if Real Madrid was forced to sell him, I would never expect anything over 90 million, for example.

Yeah, the thing is that IMHO you could get out of a contract (for a right compensation) basically everywhere, just in some places it'd be a rough and nasty path. It'll take a long time until it's already in the law everywhere ...

Regarding players rights, yeah, it's really terrible in the NBA. The contractual & drafting system probably wouldn't even be possible in Europe, due to workers rights and a couple other things.

I'm really surprised there's not more people & also players in the NBA speaking out regarding this subject. I guess they value money a bit too much compared to personal freedom.

Somewhat off-topic on players contracts & buyouts: I'd be curious to know what'd happen in a scenario if an NBA player was really displeased with his current situation and wanted to force his way out of his current contract. (and the team was unwilling to work on a buyout)

The problem is that mostly the players would just lose/risk too much by forcing things, also it'd probably lead to a long, hard & rough court battle (mostly between that player & the whole league) but it could be really interesting & fun. I'd love to see the outcome.
Things like that have never really been put into court, so it'd def. be interesting.
(but anyway, I obv. don't know nearly enough about the legal system, but I have a hard time believing it wouldn't be possible ...)

[SportsGuy8]

You have an unhealthy obsession with other people's IQ scores. Wow, amazing how easy it is to duplicate the level of some people's posts here.

C'mon man, I was the one that basically DEFENDED YOU in that "197 IQ thread".

but you have to at least mention why those numbers look like that. You're like trying to make Rubio look bad.

You are falsely accusing me of things. I did nothing but state his numbers. Everything you said there is a baseless and false accusation against me.

It's not just this one time. It's a repeating pattern ...

And I even said that I know you're just stating the numbers, so don't overreact.

[C.lupus]

Somewhat off-topic on players contracts & buyouts: I'd be curious to know what'd happen in a scenario if an NBA player was really displeased with his current situation and wanted to force his way out of his current contract. (and the team was unwilling to work on a buyout)

The problem is that mostly the players would just lose/risk too much by forcing things, also it'd probably lead to a long, hard & rough court battle (mostly between that player & the whole league) but it could be really interesting & fun. I'd love to see the outcome.
Things like that have never really been put into court, so it'd def. be interesting.
(but anyway, I obv. don't know nearly enough about the legal system, but I have a hard time believing it wouldn't be possible ...)

Well players pout and demand trades to other teams all the time. I'm guessing that's not what you are talking about, though. You are probably talking about player wanting to void his current contract and sign a new one (most likely for more money). It would be interesting but I would have to think the NBA would be in a good situation in the courts. They have legal contracts and they have the collective bargaining agreement in place with the player's union. I'm not sure, legally, what the player could do.

The obvious solution here is for the player (and his agent) to negotiate a contract that has player and team opt-out clauses in it. These seem to be becoming more common and are good for both sides, imo.

[KWSN-Men]

You have an unhealthy obsession with other people's IQ scores. Wow, amazing how easy it is to duplicate the level of some people's posts here.

C'mon man, I was the one that basically DEFENDED YOU in that "197 IQ thread".

but you have to at least mention why those numbers look like that. You're like trying to make Rubio look bad.

You are falsely accusing me of things. I did nothing but state his numbers. Everything you said there is a baseless and false accusation against me.

It's not just this one time. It's a repeating pattern ...

And I even said that I know you're just stating the numbers, so don't overreact.

There is no reason to keep making jokes about me here. It's immature.