ALL RUBIO TALK HERE

[SportsGuy8]

WTF? Where do you see me "making jokes about you" there?

I think you're being overly sensitive, not just now, but overall. I have seen numerous times people responding to you in a totally normal way, yet you accuse them of attacking you and threaten to report them ... It's like you see conspiracies & attacks in everything ...

The funny part though, as I said, I actually defended you before, but now I'm starting to understand Genjuro (and a few others) ...

I have an advice for you: don't take life so seriously, nobody gets out alive.

[SportsGuy8]

Well players pout and demand trades to other teams all the time. I'm guessing that's not what you are talking about, though. You are probably talking about player wanting to void his current contract and sign a new one (most likely for more money). It would be interesting but I would have to think the NBA would be in a good situation in the courts. They have legal contracts and they have the collective bargaining agreement in place with the player's union. I'm not sure, legally, what the player could do.

The obvious solution here is for the player (and his agent) to negotiate a contract that has player and team opt-out clauses in it. These seem to be becoming more common and are good for both sides, imo.

Yeah, I can imagine the league is very well protected here, legal wise ...

As for opt-out clauses, yeah, we see a lot more of them, but mostly it's in players' 3rd contracts (2nd big contracts; players with a lot of "bargaining power") and/or players that have lot's of skepticism regarding their current situation.

Other players are actually the ones that want these long contracts. Teams, on the other hand, don't really want them, and shortening them will be a major thing to discuss for the next CBA.

To be fair, we also have to look at the teams side of things. I'm all for workers rights (no matter how high their salary is), but to achieve that, players would have to give up some too. A solution that would improve a lot of things are non-guaranteed contracts. But I'm sure the players union doesn't really want that.
We should look around the league and see how much "dead-money" almost every team has. Massively overpaid players that simply aren't producing. The problem are these long-term guaranteed contracts.

But anyway, that's totally off-topic.

Another thing would be the draft. From sports side of things, it's obviously a good thing, keeps the league competitive, gives more equal rights to the teams, keeps things organized etc.
But, from workers rights point of view, it's obviously a terrible thing, modern "slavery" (well, slavery isn't really the right word, so don't jump on it, pls , you know what I mean).

Personally, I would go totally nuts if I couldn't choose where to work/live.

[john2jer]

This thread had everything except for a Van Wilder quote, now we got it. I don't think we can go any further after that. Lock it up.

[Devilzsidewalk]

Another thing would be the draft. From sports side of things, it's obviously a good thing, keeps the league competitive, gives more equal rights to the teams, keeps things organized etc.
But, from workers rights point of view, it's obviously a terrible thing, modern "slavery" (well, slavery isn't really the right word, so don't jump on it, pls , you know what I mean).

Personally, I would go totally nuts if I couldn't choose where to work/live.

he can choose where he wants to work and live, but if he wants to play in the NBA, he has to play by their rules. Personally, I can live or work anywhere I want, but if I apply for a job at American Express and they say I have to live in Omaha, then that's that. It's their company and they make the rules. That's not the only option; it may be the best paying job, but then that's the trade off. Rubio can live and work anywhere he pleases, but the NBA is a company with rules and if he wants to join their company he has to follow them. People don't like the draft, don't like free agency, then that's fine - you don't have to get involved. There are other jobs in the world.

[Devilzsidewalk]

and by the way, how about guaranteed contracts? I think that trumps having to play in a city without white sandy beaches. What other profession can you 100% mail it in and they'll still be forced to pay you? Jamaal Tinsley shoots at people and he still gets his 7 mil a year. Guaranteed contracts, free medical treatment from the top doctors in the world, I didn't see that in my benefits package

[SportsGuy8]

Well, the main problem is US law, which allows things like that in the first place (company being totally free in setting the rules). As said, in Europe, a league like the NBA would violate a few laws, especially laws regarding workers rights ... (just a mention ... I don't mean or want anything US vs. Euro)

You made an American Express example, which I don't think is too accurate.
Let me give you an example which seems more accurate to me: you apply for a job at American Express, which has 30 branches all over the US, many of which branches would be interested in your services, but a company made some sort of lottery which branch can sign you (in an attempt to even-out the efficiency of all the branches), even though both you and some 3rd branch would be far better off if you worked there. Not even mentioning that you're super qualified to get any job at any of these branches.
Would that violate any US laws? I would imagine you could sue the hell out of them.

And I'm fully aware of all the benefits that come from playing in the NBA. That's also a big reason why you don't hear many people complaining. Which is quite sad, IMHO. People value money waaay too much. Sure, it can improve your lifestyle, but it will not lead to true happiness (that will come from other things in life).


One other thing to consider, the NBA could be considered a monopolistic company that takes advantage off of that fact. A player has no real alternatives. Sure, Euroleague for example, is a very strong league, but there's still quite a gap, especially for a competitive player who wants to play with and against the very best the world has to offer.

Sure, NBA is a company, a business, but sadly people are forgetting that basketball is still a sport, a game if you want. And one of the main objectives in competitive sports is to compete at the highest level & try beating & being the best.

So a player has to "sheepishly" accept all the rules if he wants to pursue his SPORTING goals? Sadly the world has come to a point where money rules everything ... Which is just plain sad.

You can call me a tree-hugging hippie, but that's my 2 cents.

P.s.: Irony/hipocricy: as I think I've already mentioned, I'm a professional poker player & sports-bettor (mostly NBA), lol.
(and no, it's not gambling ... it's all math, statistics & logic)

[Genjuro]

he can choose where he wants to work and live, but if he wants to play in the NBA, he has to play by their rules. Personally, I can live or work anywhere I want, but if I apply for a job at American Express and they say I have to live in Omaha, then that's that. It's their company and they make the rules. That's not the only option; it may be the best paying job, but then that's the trade off. Rubio can live and work anywhere he pleases, but the NBA is a company with rules and if he wants to join their company he has to follow them. People don't like the draft, don't like free agency, then that's fine - you don't have to get involved. There are other jobs in the world.

This is an intesting issue. Do the NBA teams belong to a single company? I thought they didn't, but I'm not sure.

[SportsGuy8]

This thread had everything except for a Van Wilder quote, now we got it. I don't think we can go any further after that. Lock it up.

Haha, I looked that up at IMDB, and a similar quote is there.

Btw., movie worth watching?

[Genjuro]

http://www.marca.com/2009/07/12/balonce ... 13700.html

Not surprisingly, F.C.Barcelona would be interested as well in Ricky Rubio. According to this piece of news, they would be willing to offer 3 million euros to Joventut, a good salary to Rubio (I'm assuming it would be around one million euros net per year) and a very affordable buyout after the second year of the contract.

The big advantage of Barcelona? it's where Rubio lives.

The Rubio sweepstakes:
- F.C.Barcelona: almost home
- Real Madrid: money
- Unicaja Málaga: coach

[C.lupus]

The Rubio sweepstakes:
- F.C.Barcelona: almost home
- Real Madrid: money
- Unicaja Málaga: coach
- Minnesota Timberwolves: NBA dream

fixed

[Genjuro]

The Rubio sweepstakes:
- F.C.Barcelona: almost home
- Real Madrid: money
- Unicaja Málaga: coach
- Minnesota Timberwolves: NBA dream

fixed

I don't think the Wolves are a real option, because Rubio could only pay Joventut about a couple of million euros to buy his contract out, and Joventut is expecting to net twice that much with the other options.

In the end, the biggest looser here will be Fegan. He won't see a penny at least in the next two years. Didn't he mess up with Joventut, next summer Rubio would be likely going to the NBA. The Wolves have likely drafted a great player with a #5 pick in an awful draft, even if they will have to wait for him. Joventut will get big bucks now, which is what they need. And Rubio will get a big pay raise and gain great finantial security.

[deeney0]

Wolves aren't an option next year. The sweepstakes aren't for when he's 18, it's for when he's in his prime. The Wolves are not only very much in the running there, they have to be viewed as leading the pack.

[mnWI]

Joventut is already talking to an agent about bringing Pooh Jeter and Dionte Christmas in for next year. Jeter was one of the top point guards in the ACB last season.

[C.lupus]

I don't think the Wolves are a real option, because Rubio could only pay Joventut about a couple of million euros to buy his contract out, and Joventut is expecting to net twice that much with the other options.

In the end, the biggest looser here will be Fegan. He won't see a penny at least in the next two years. Didn't he mess up with Joventut, next summer Rubio would be likely going to the NBA. The Wolves have likely drafted a great player with a #5 pick in an awful draft, even if they will have to wait for him. Joventut will get big bucks now, which is what they need. And Rubio will get a big pay raise and gain great finantial security.

Yeah, as deeney0 said, the Wolves probably aren't a real option this year but Rubio has stated on more than one occassion that the NBA is his dream. If he wants to realize that dream, he has to go through Minnesota.

[C.lupus]

Well, the main problem is US law, which allows things like that in the first place (company being totally free in setting the rules). As said, in Europe, a league like the NBA would violate a few laws, especially laws regarding workers rights ... (just a mention ... I don't mean or want anything US vs. Euro)

You made an American Express example, which I don't think is too accurate.
Let me give you an example which seems more accurate to me: you apply for a job at American Express, which has 30 branches all over the US, many of which branches would be interested in your services, but a company made some sort of lottery which branch can sign you (in an attempt to even-out the efficiency of all the branches), even though both you and some 3rd branch would be far better off if you worked there. Not even mentioning that you're super qualified to get any job at any of these branches.
Would that violate any US laws? I would imagine you could sue the hell out of them.

And I'm fully aware of all the benefits that come from playing in the NBA. That's also a big reason why you don't hear many people complaining. Which is quite sad, IMHO. People value money waaay too much. Sure, it can improve your lifestyle, but it will not lead to true happiness (that will come from other things in life).


One other thing to consider, the NBA could be considered a monopolistic company that takes advantage off of that fact. A player has no real alternatives. Sure, Euroleague for example, is a very strong league, but there's still quite a gap, especially for a competitive player who wants to play with and against the very best the world has to offer.

Sure, NBA is a company, a business, but sadly people are forgetting that basketball is still a sport, a game if you want. And one of the main objectives in competitive sports is to compete at the highest level & try beating & being the best.

So a player has to "sheepishly" accept all the rules if he wants to pursue his SPORTING goals? Sadly the world has come to a point where money rules everything ... Which is just plain sad.

You can call me a tree-hugging hippie, but that's my 2 cents.

P.s.: Irony/hipocricy: as I think I've already mentioned, I'm a professional poker player & sports-bettor (mostly NBA), lol.
(and no, it's not gambling ... it's all math, statistics & logic)

If you want to play the game, you have to play the game.
If you don't want to play the game, you don't have to play the game.
If you want to play the game but don't want to play the game, then you can play the game but you need to realize it will be a different game.
If you don't like the games you have to play to play this game, you can play a different game somewhere else but that game will likely have games that you will have to play also.
Most people just choose to play the games required to play the game because it is simpler that way.
Is that clearer?

[john2jer]

Wow, the twists and turns of bad information keep coming.

Using the example provided, if you apply at American Express and the only option they give you to work is 1000 miles a way, you either take it and move, or you apply for a different company. You have no right to sue because they won't give you a job next door.

If Rubio wants to fulfill his NBA dream, it goes through Minnesota until the Wolves trade his rights. So yeah, he has to play by their rules. Even if he demands a trade, the Wolves aren't required to trade him.

Rubio is free to play basketball all he wants, but if he wants to play in the highest league in the world, he has to accept the rules they've laid down.

[stiles21]

If Rubio did come over this year and played with Flynn, does anyone really think it would work? On this team anyways? Having two people who can create for other's doesn't really matter when you don't have anyone that can put the ball in the hoop. How many guys do we need to dribble up the ball and throw it to Big Al in the post? I also read a lot of post's about how good Flynn is on D, but there's a big difference between guarding college point guards and NBA shooting guards. Is Rubio strong and tough enough to guard the 2? If Rubio does come over, is this just gonna be another wasted year to decide which one we like more, then trade the other and get a scoring shooting guard that can spread the floor next year? Is this the plan? To me it looks like Rubio wants nothing to do with the Timberwolves anyways, so Flynn will be the guy by default. After about a month now, looking back does anyone else think they could have gotten more with the 5th and 6th picks?

[deeney0]

If Rubio did come over this year and played with Flynn, does anyone really think it would work?

It's worth a look.

On this team anyways?

Designing the future around who's on this team right now, other than Big Al, isn't a recipe for success.

After about a month now, looking back does anyone else think they could have gotten more with the 5th and 6th picks?

More value? Not me. Be patient.

[SportsGuy8]

If you want to play the game, you have to play the game.
If you don't want to play the game, you don't have to play the game.
If you want to play the game but don't want to play the game, then you can play the game but you need to realize it will be a different game.
If you don't like the games you have to play to play this game, you can play a different game somewhere else but that game will likely have games that you will have to play also.
Most people just choose to play the games required to play the game because it is simpler that way.
Is that clearer?

Yeah, that's how it is. I have never denied that that's how it is. I'm just saying that it's pretty bad.

Wow, the twists and turns of bad information keep coming.

Using the example provided, if you apply at American Express and the only option they give you to work is 1000 miles a way, you either take it and move, or you apply for a different company. You have no right to sue because they won't give you a job next door.

So, even if they have jobs OPEN/available at many of these other branches for which you more than qualify? (and these branches also really wanted your services)

Here a company would be in a whole lot of trouble if they did that ...

If Rubio wants to fulfill his NBA dream, it goes through Minnesota until the Wolves trade his rights. So yeah, he has to play by their rules. Even if he demands a trade, the Wolves aren't required to trade him.

Rubio is free to play basketball all he wants, but if he wants to play in the highest league in the world, he has to accept the rules they've laid down.

That's obvious. I repeat, I have never denied that that's how it is.

And btw., I didn't even talk specifically for Rubios case. I mentioned I went off-topic with that. Just commenting/thinking about something another poster mentioned. (I was in no way implying on "Rubio & Minnesota situation"; I shouldn't have went off-topic, I guess )

[nilo]

I'd say that now it looks like:

25% Rubio plays in MN
25% Rubio plays in Joventud
25% Rubio plays in Unicaja
25% Rubio plays in Barcelona