Raptors Forum Moderators

[Koosh]

Before I start complaining I'd like to point out that I love this site and I've been a dedicated user for several years now. As a diehard Raptors fan, I particularly enjoy being a part of the substantial Raptors community here and I find that the forums are a great place to talk about my favourite team and speculate about things going on around the league.

With that said, this place is not without its faults. As a customer and a loyal user, I strongly suggest that the administrators of this site take a close look at the Raptors forums. I think consistency is important when running a business and one thing I’ve noticed is that the moderators at the Raptors forum are not consistent with the rest of this community. And I know that I’m not alone in thinking this. All you need to do is browse five pages worth of topics and examine some of the threads that are getting locked and it should be apparent that something is wrong. Personally, I don’t have the best track record with our mods and as such I’ve received warnings and suspensions for criticising them. Most recently, I politely asked them to provide an explanation for some of their decisions (viewtopic.php?f=32&t=926317) and they told me to use this forum for feedback. That’s fine, I understand that it's against the rules to post feedback on the main Raps forum and I realize now that I should have posted my concerns here to begin. So here goes...

Unfortunately, the Raptor mods don’t seem to realize that without us users they would be out of a job. Instead they act like they are privileged and above us and often exercise their power just for the sake of doing so. For example, in response to my thread above, one of the moderators (YogiStewart) closed a perfectly innocent thread by another user (viewtopic.php?f=32&t=926352) just to “get back” at those of us who complained. He very maturely provided the following explanation:

this lock goes out to the posters in the other locked thread who cannot figure out why posts are locked.

dumbfounded posters: this lock's for you.

This is the type of policing and decision making that is ruining the RealGM experience for so many Raptors fans. In my opinion, we need a standard procedure that all moderators abide by so that there are no inconsistencies when going from one forum to another. I’m sure that those of you who run this site care about customer satisfaction so I’m hoping you take a look at this issue. It might even be a good idea to post a satisfaction survey on the Raptors forum so that you can get a better idea of what everyone else thinks. Please don’t forget about us, the users, because we help make this place what it is.

Thanks.

[sideshow]

This thread will get moved in 5,4,3,2.....

[Koosh]

Moved? Is there somewhere else I'm supposed to post this?

[WesWesley]

That thread was lock worthy.

Moderators don't get paid. If you want to get back at them laugh at them for moderating the Raptors board for free. Little Ozzy puts in 20 hrs a week of extra work for nothing.

[kyphi]

lol, out of a job? Moderating is difficult plus time-consuming.

[Shaazzam]

You ain't a customer, you're a visitor.

[Koosh]

Yeah? So RealGM would still be in business without any visitors?

And whether mods get paid or not is beyond the point. The Raptors moderators are doing a horrible job and lots of people are unhappy. The problem is that if we disagree with them we're "troublemakers" and we get punished as such. So that's why I suggest that the mods ask the users for some feedback. It's really quite simple and if they're doing a good job then they shouldn't have anything to be worried about. Just make a topic and ask us what *we* think.

[Koosh]

I'm sorry but suggesting that users aren't customers is incredibly (Please Use More Appropriate Word). How about you ask the site administrators how they make money and what their advertisers pay for.

[LittleOzzy]

I'm sorry but suggesting that users aren't customers is incredibly (Please Use More Appropriate Word). How about you ask the site administrators how they make money and what their advertisers pay for.

The forum is just a side project for RealGM.

They make their real money with their trade/salary calculator that some of the teams use. The forum really means very little to their overall profits I'm guessing.

As for how horrible the Raptors forum is, I can't speak for the particular thread you mentioned as I know nothing about it but I can say threads get locked for many reasons.

A thread will be locked if it's a repeated topic. The Raptors forum is a very busy place and things normally get posted 3 or 4 times so to unclutter the board we really try to keep people focused on one thread.

Also a thread will be locked if it violates any one of the terms of service. This forum has certain rules we ask our users to follow, if they can't do so the thread automatically gets locked. I suggest checking out all the rules before creating a forum topic.

It's really that simple, stick to the rules and don't repeat anything and the Mods will leave you alone. Thousands of users really enjoy the Raps forum and it's the best source for Raptors news online.

We would like to keep it that way and that's why at times we have to lock threads. It would be too cluttered if we allowed everything to be posted.

[Koosh]

So what rule did the JR Smith thread (linked in my original post) break that made it lock-worthy? I see what you mean about repeated topics but that's not really what I'm talking about. Sometimes threads are locked because the moderator finds the topic "stupid" but that's such a subjective thing that it shouldn't be happening. Also, I've seen countless multipage threads locked once a mod decides that it's time for the conversation to end. Do you know how annoying it is to type out a lengthy response only to get a message indicating that the thread has been locked? Unless there's a legit reason (which isn't the case all the time) this also shouldn't ever happen.

I'd argue that the Raptors forum, in particular, is very important considering a) the sheer number of users b) the fact that so many members of the media use it for various reasons c) the fact that it's an incredible source for getting news and other important Raptors related information. Most people check the forums first before news sites because it's an excellent source of information and I bet it makes for a lot of the hits that RealGM gets.

[Yuri Vaultin]

Koosh, I understand your concerns regarding locked topics. I can't speak for the JR one specifically, however, to add to what Ozzy said sometimes a thread will be locked if the OP has not done any homework regarding a particular thread or if there is zero info to build on. For example.

"Raps should get Shaq - discuss."

Threads like these pop up all the time, there is a trade and transactions board for such threads. We have multiple daily threads suggesting trades that have either been suggested before and/or simply are unreasonable and unfounded.

Again, I understand your concern regarding the mods and appreciated that you are obviously a passionate forum member. I also understand, reading your history that you've had multiple threads locked, and quite a few locked that have been directed at ripping a mod and demanding to know why thread x was locked. Please understand that behaviour like this doesn't exactly ingratiate you to the mods. We all try to be fair and try to treat everyone with respect and in turn ask that all forum members treat all fellow posters with the same respect they'd like. If you have concerns Supersub has set-up a feedback e-mail for posters to speak directly with the mods - RaptorsGM@yahoo.ca - please feel free to use it.

Cheers,

Yuri

[Shaazzam]

I'm sorry but suggesting that users aren't customers is incredibly (Please Use More Appropriate Word). How about you ask the site administrators how they make money and what their advertisers pay for.

And you wonder why you get in trouble?

http://www.realgm.com/src_wiretap_archi ... nba_teams/

As many as 14 general managers this season will be using RealGM's Trade Builder to come up with trade ideas that fit under the salary cap. Unlike Scott Layden, who reportedly used Trade Checker to come up with trades while running the Knicks, these GMs are not using the same program as site users do.

RealGM.com, a popular basketball Web site that was founded in 2000, actually produces a software program specifically for NBA teams that helps them produce trade ideas.

The patent-pending program is called "Trade Builder," and it differs from the "Trade Checker" program that is available to everyone on their Web site in that this program actually comes up with every potential trades for a single player.

So you can bet every team that uses this Trade Builder program has been searching for all the possible matches under the salary cap with the name, Kobe Bryant.

"If you're looking to trade for Kobe Bryant, any team in the league could plug in Bryant and then see exactly who they can trade to receive him," said Todd Essman. "It will essentially give you every combination and every possible way that you can make the trade work. It does all the searching, which Trade Checker doesn't do. It

"Trade builder will build your trade, and it essentially automates all the combinations and taking into account every little nuance of the salary cap, every rule."

They sell this bad boy for $30K a pop to teams.

Thanks for playing.

[Koosh]

It's my fault for holding "Retired Mods" to a higher standard. I'm sorry, I'll adjust my expectations for you.

Yuri, thanks for your kind response. It's important to note that I shouldn't group all of the Raptors mods in the same category because that's not fair. I still believe that some of the mods perform outside of their duties (and I'm sure you agree, even though you won't admit it) but hopefully they can adjust that to make for a better posting environment. As I stated in my initial post, I acknowledge that I've historically been a "troublemaker" but in my defense, all that started after one of my topics was unfairly locked. It happened to be 18+ pages long and the explanation given was not close to being satisfactory. Ever since I've been public about my disapproval but this is the first time that I've actually posted my feedback in the appropriate place.

[Koosh]

Shazzam, if the user base is not valuable I'll gladly take it off RealGM's hands. I can think of plenty of ways to make money off a vibrant community that often feeds content *into* the site. You know, content that is later labeled as "News".

[Koosh]

Also, not once did I suggest that the forums are the only means in which this site generates revenue. At the same time, I think you're seriously downplaying the significance of this community.

[Shaazzam]

It's my fault for holding "Retired Mods" to a higher standard. I'm sorry, I'll adjust my expectations for you.

It's okay there fella. The fact that you treat this experience akin to getting a bad meal at Swiss Chalet, your penchant for complaining and your characterizations of others opinions as (Please Use More Appropriate Word) speaks volumes.

As for this comment

How about you ask the site administrators how they make money

I didn't have to, there have been articles written about it, like the one I posted. But again, thanks for pointing out that my analysis of your status as a customer as being (Please Use More Appropriate Word). What exactly have you bought from here by the way? Could you mayhaps be overestimating your worth as a clicker of banners?

Shazzam, if the user base is not valuable I'll gladly take it off RealGM's hands. I can think of plenty of ways to make money off a vibrant community that often feeds content *into* the site. You know, content that is later labeled as "News".

Not quite what I was saying, but I wish you well in your endeavors. Remember, I'm not speaking as any sort of agent for RealGM, simply as an ordinary poster who once upon a time volunteered my time to help out an online community I enjoy.

At least we have that in common.

[Koosh]

Maybe I shouldn't have used the term "(Please Use More Appropriate Word)" but that doesn't make your opinion any less stupid and condescending. And really, you're the very definition of what's wrong with the Raptors community. You're smug and you act like I owe you something for volunteering your precious time when in reality you're just an arrogant guy who's so full of himself that he can't take any criticism. Notice that I've acknowledged in this thread that I shouldn't have posted my complaints on the Raptors forum and referred to you as "(Please Use More Appropriate Word)". I can admit when I'm wrong and that's more than I can say for you.

The fact that your name is bold and black doesn't impress me one bit... sorry.

[Shaazzam]

Maybe I shouldn't have used the term "(Please Use More Appropriate Word)" but that doesn't make your opinion any less stupid and condescending. And really, you're the very definition of what's wrong with the Raptors community. You're smug and you act like I owe you something for volunteering your precious time when in reality you're just an arrogant guy who's so full of himself that he can't take any criticism. Notice that I've apologized in this thread for posting my complaints on the Raptors forum and most recently for referring to you as "(Please Use More Appropriate Word)". I can admit when I'm wrong and that's more than I can say for you.

The fact that your name is bold and black doesn't impress me one bit... sorry.

Well, I'm glad that we've now established that you're a better person than me. And yet I'm curious as to why you keep bringing up my status when I clearly said that I am simply now an ordinary poster, which I quite enjoy.

As for my comment about volunteering, It wasn't done to martyr myself, and yet I do see how the bolding of it can be construed as much. It was simply done to try and get you do understand that even though being a moderator is a privilege, there is some degree of, well let's not say sacrifice, that's far too much, but giving on the part of the mods back to the community. They are simply trying to do their best, and while "mistakes" can be made, let's not forgot the amount of decisions that moderators are forced to make on a forum as busy as the Raptors forum. Not all of them will meet with consensus, even amongst other moderators. But they do their best to try and discuss things to try and come to an understanding on how things should be dealt with.

As for admitting I'm wrong, I thought that was something I do with some frequency when I post(that's because I think crazy things sometimes) and the fact that I retired was in my mind because I thought didn't have the time or was in the proper frame of mind to do the job that the board deserved.

2. Members should post in a way that is respectful of other users. This applies to ALL users, regardless of post count, forum rank or perceived status at RealGM.

viewtopic.php?f=32&t=877670

Now I may be smug and arrogant, but at least I try to refrain from personal attacks on another's character. Nor do I refer to their posting status. That's the kind of stuff that gets people in trouble around here.

But I've said my piece. Hopefully you have or will find a resolution to your satisfaction and that you can enjoy your experience to the fullest degree.

[Koosh]

This whole argument could have been avoided if you didn't feel the need to first undermine me as a user while choosing to speak on behalf of the people who actually own this site. If I'm a webmaster, I view my visitors as customers because without them there is no revenue. No ad revenue and nothing else that stems from it including any profit that they would have made from other products such as the aforementioned 'Trade Builder". There's no way they could sell a product like that without first garnering enough attention. In other words, this place is reputable because of its substantial user base.

[Shaazzam]

This whole argument could have been avoided if you didn't feel the need to first undermine me as a user while choosing to speak on behalf of the people who actually own this site.

I did no such thing. This is just another forum of many on RealGM, and I'm sure if you gave it a perusal you would find that it is quite common for other users to comment in them. And they are not speaking for RealGM, they are just doing what they normally do, posting. Possibly my status as a retired mod had you confused that I actually had some say around here. I will however stick up for people when you start using phrases such as "Unfortunately, the Raptor mods don’t seem to realize that without us users they would be out of a job. " like being a moderator is something that provides some sort of financial recompense for doing it. Yes without users there wouldn't be a forum, but without a forum there wouldn't be users, and without moderators doing their jobs there wouldn't be much of an ability for you and I, the users, to engage in civil meaningful discourse about our favorite teams.

If I'm a webmaster, I view my visitors as customers because without them there is no revenue. No ad revenue and nothing else that stems from it including any profit that they would have made from other products such as the aforementioned 'Trade Builder". There's no way they could sell a product like that without first garnering enough attention. In other words, this place is reputable because of its substantial user base.

I'm not sure you have the sales model correct, but since I'm not a part of this company I can't speak directly to it. In my opinion, I would pitch the software directly to NBA executives. It's functionality, again in my opinion, would speak for itself. A 20 minute demonstration, which I have done before with software applications, would be quite beneficial. I'm not sure demonstrating a watered down version of it when I'm going to be asking people for $30K would be the way to go. Point being is that you don't need an online forum in order to sell software applications. But I'm not in that racket anymore and obviously RealGM is doing something right, so if I'm wrong then c'est la vie.