Trade Idea BOS/MINN

Papa Irish31 · Post #1 » by **Papa Irish31** » Wed Jul 15, 2009 8:18 am

Boston fan here to propose a trade

Minnesota gets: Tony Allen, JR Giddens, Bill Walker
Minnesota gives up: Ryan Gomes

Boston Receives: Ryan Gomes
Boston gives up: Tony Allen, JR Giddens, Bill Walker

I think this trade would benefit both teams, and have a pretty good feel for all the guys in this trade because of there time in Boston

Minnesota gets a guy in Tony Allen that was much better in Boston than Gomes before his injury, before his injury he showed that he can be an effective 2 guard in the NBA, he showed good scoring ability, mostly scoring off drives or from the free throw line, he is not a good shooter, but he is a good free throw shooter; he is also a seen as a defensive stopper at the 2 position; but he hasnt been the same player since his knee injury, some blame his explosiveness some blame his basketball iq, from what i have seen his explosiveness is fine, he has had a couple of dunks post injury that were just as exciting as his pre acl tear days; and the inconsistent play on the court i would chalk up to minutes played, he has never really gained back steady playing time, which could cause a lot of his on the court problems; and if nothing else he is an expiring contract

You also get two guys that can play the two or three positions and our a better fit going forward with brewer on the wing than gomes is, Gomes is a borderline 3/4, while the only shooting guard you have on your roster is wayne ellington, walker and JR have much higher ceilings than gomes, albeit they have a much lower floor too, but now is the time to take chances, and i believe that taking a chance on bill and jr could net you one very good player, if not two

with gomes you know what you are getting, he has no real potential value, he really is much better suited as a role player on a championship caliber team than a team trying to find there star on the wing to go with al jefferson, and it doesn't help at all that he plays the same position as former lottery pick corey brewer

giddens and walker have more of the tools it takes to be good scorers in this league than does gomes, if walker can develop a jumpshot to go along with his athleticism he would definitely be a force, and giddens has fared well against pretty much all the competition he has faced up to this point, it looks like he just needs to get his shot (it would help to improve his shooting and ballhandling a bit too)

Above that walker and giddens both play excelent D, and have the tools to be defensive stoppers in this league, walker really gets under people's skin and frustrates them, just asked ron artest who he angered so much because of his d tried to pick a fight with him....in a preseason game

imagine letting a defensive back court of giddens, walker, and brewer grow together, surely it would be the best thing for the timberwolves to do moving forward, not to mention it clears the path for brewer to make it into the starting lineup and start to grow as a player, he was your lottery pick from a couple of years ago, gomes was merely a throw in by boston in there attempt to get KG

all in all i think this trade would benefit both teams, how bout yall? would you take the deal, even think about it, want a draft pick in substitute of walker or giddens? and don't say this is a complete rip off because i have seen gomes play, and i have seen the timberwolves, it is a pretty good deal for both teams

Post #2 » by **Basti** » Wed Jul 15, 2009 10:24 am

sorry that I didn't read your entire post but we already have a packed roster and doing a 3 for 1 trade won't work for us.

Pumaman · Post #3 » by **Pumaman** » Wed Jul 15, 2009 11:40 am

Besides the fact that we already have way more marginal players than we need, why on earth would Boston want to do this deal? Gomes isn't going to get any minutes there, Pierce plays 40 at the 3 and they've got KG/Sheed/Perkins/Big Baby at the 4/5, this makes no sense. What they really need is guard depth, with losing (I think) House, and with this deal losing Allen and Walker, that leaves Boston with Rondo (who they are supposedly thinking about trading) and Ray Allen, who shouldn't be playing 40 a night anymore. I don't see any way this trade could work for either team, besides that, proposed trades are supposed to have the Wolves giving up much more talent than they are receiving, where have you been? Apparently Boston is a long ways from New York.

Steve_Holiday · Post #4 » by **Steve_Holiday** » Wed Jul 15, 2009 1:03 pm

This is the oddest trade I've seen in a while for the simple fact that it's so pointless.

I would counter it with something centered around Henk Norel.

Devilzsidewalk · Post #5 » by **Devilzsidewalk** » Wed Jul 15, 2009 1:44 pm

I really like Gomes, I think he fills too many roles in too many styles to trade away. His versatility is off the charts, he's a great guy, and I think we gotta keep him for a good long while as a core veteran.

john2jer · Post #6 » by **john2jer** » Wed Jul 15, 2009 2:25 pm

Gomes is the best player in the deal. We need quality, not quantity.

Tony Allen might be "seen as a defensive stopper", but the guy is actually a horrible defensive player.

From the sounds of it Bill Walker also gets under the skin of the coaching staff.

And as mentioned, the Wolves don't have the roster spots available to make this trade. It would force us to cut guaranteed deals, and that's bad business.

Wolves pass, and fairly easily.

john2jer · Post #7 » by **john2jer** » Wed Jul 15, 2009 2:45 pm

Oh, and something that's not mentioned enough about Ryan Gomes. The guy participated in the Wolves charity van while being an unsigned FA for the Wolves. How many guys participate in off-court team activities for a team they're not under contract with. Yeah he was negotiating with them at the time, but nothing was guaranteed.

funkatron101 · Post #8 » by **funkatron101** » Wed Jul 15, 2009 2:46 pm

The Wolves need to consolidate. This makes no sense.

Winter Wonder · Post #9 » by **Winter Wonder** » Wed Jul 15, 2009 2:51 pm

Value may or may not be there, but the afore mentioned issue on roster spots and the need to consolidate assets/players makes this an easy no from MN. We would have to cut 1 or 2 of the guys being brought in and the deal then loses value. If it were Songalia, who has a less desirable contract to MN, then it would be a different story potentially. Dollars would have to be figured out though.

john2jer · Post #10 » by **john2jer** » Wed Jul 15, 2009 3:10 pm

Songalia and Brown for Allen and Scalabrine

Saves the Boston like $1.4mil after the tax. Gives them another big incase they lose Davis.

Wolves take on a little money this year, but cut Songalia's deal next year. Wolves can add in a 2nd round pick if needed.

Esohny · Post #11 » by **Esohny** » Wed Jul 15, 2009 3:18 pm

john2jer wrote:Songalia and Brown for Allen and Scalabrine

Saves the Boston like $1.4mil after the tax. Gives them another big incase they lose Davis.

Wolves take on a little money this year, but cut Songalia's deal next year. Wolves can add in a 2nd round pick if needed.

I'd be totally fine with that.

john2jer · Post #12 » by **john2jer** » Wed Jul 15, 2009 3:20 pm

Don't get me wrong, Tony Allen sucks, bad. But he's a body that can get minutes at SG and his value is in the fact that he'll go away in 10 months.

Esohny · Post #13 » by **Esohny** » Wed Jul 15, 2009 3:32 pm

We're giving up more talent than we're getting back, but it's worth it in this case to clear more 2010 salary. This is also why I'd like to trade Telfair for expirings/minimum contract/2nd rounders, since I don't see Telfair as making a difference for Flynn or Rubio's development, and he's guaranteed money, even if he's a reasonably priced backup. We're going to be brutal next year, but these moves make us better in 2010 and the long run.

john2jer · Post #14 » by **john2jer** » Wed Jul 15, 2009 3:40 pm

We could make that change as well.

Songalia and Telfair for Scalabrine, Allen, Giddens, and Pruitt

Boston gets guys that can help win now. Telfair is a very solid back-up PG. Saves them a little money this year and cuts roster spots for them.

We'd obviously have to waive Bobby Brown, whhich is fine. Pruitt, Allen, and Giddens would get plenty of run in our backcourt, with Giddens and Pruitt adding a little size. We could even cut Allen so he could re-sign with Boston if they want him back.

Giddens is on a rookie deal, otherwise the rest are all expiring. It's a talent hit, but it's bringing in young players to take a chance on and clearing about $7mil in cap space in 2010. That probably would make shrink wet.

jgustav1 · Post #15 » by **jgustav1** » Wed Jul 15, 2009 3:50 pm

Esohny wrote:This is also why I'd like to trade Telfair for expirings/minimum contract/2nd rounders, since I don't see Telfair as making a difference for Flynn or Rubio's development, and he's guaranteed money, even if he's a reasonably priced backup. We're going to be brutal next year, but these moves make us better in 2010 and the long run.

Good luck, there isn't an NBA team that is going to trade expirings and 2nd round picks for Telfair and his contract. He will likely need to start next season anyway until Flynn shows he is ready to play as a starter.

jgustav1 · Post #16 » by **jgustav1** » Wed Jul 15, 2009 3:53 pm

john2jer wrote:We could make that change as well.

Songalia and Telfair for Scalabrine, Allen, Giddens, and Pruitt

Boston gets guys that can help win now. Telfair is a very solid back-up PG. Saves them a little money this year and cuts roster spots for them.

We'd obviously have to waive Bobby Brown, whhich is fine. Pruitt, Allen, and Giddens would get plenty of run in our backcourt, with Giddens and Pruitt adding a little size. We could even cut Allen so he could re-sign with Boston if they want him back.

Giddens is on a rookie deal, otherwise the rest are all expiring. It's a talent hit, but it's bringing in young players to take a chance on and clearing about $7mil in cap space in 2010. That probably would make shrink wet.

Boston would probably be more interested in a guy like Bobby Brown off the waiver wire than Telfair, they don't need to add marginal players with 2 years left on bad contracts. They would turn down this trade easily.

john2jer · Post #17 » by **john2jer** » Wed Jul 15, 2009 3:54 pm

Telfair has a player option next year for 2.7mil. He doesn't have a bad contract. He's a quality back-up PG that's only 24 years old. But yeah, no need to get 2nd round picks back for him.

Pairing him and Songalia up and sending them to a championship contender for low level prospects and expirings, like my proposed Boston trade would be ideal. Boston's lost faith in Pruitt, but they don't exactly have the minutes available to give him a chance.

Boston needs guys able to play. None of the guys they're dropping in my deal are able to play. Bobby Brown is showing in the summer league that he's not able to play. Boston wouldn't waste their time.

shrink · Post #18 » by **shrink** » Wed Jul 15, 2009 5:09 pm

BOS had kicked Telfair off the team before they traded him to us, after his gun charges:

sham wrote:
February 15th 2006: Took a gun on a team plane. Said that the gun was his girlfriend's, and that he had picked up her bag by mistake. Gun was registered to his girlfriend. No charges filed, but suspended by the NBA for two games.
April 20th 2007: Arrested and charged with felony possession of a weapon during a traffic stop. Also caught doing 77mph in a 45mph zone, and driving with a suspended license. Pleaded guilty, sentenced to three years probation, and suspended by the NBA for three games.

While Tony allen has had some minor run-ins with the law, I don't think BOS brass will be itching to bring back Telfair.

I like john2jer's deal:

john2jer wrote: Songalia and Brown for Allen and Scalabrine

.. and I'd probably do the first trade if it included a Songalia for Scalbrine swap as well.

Papa Irish31 · Post #19 » by **Papa Irish31** » Wed Jul 15, 2009 6:31 pm

Boston hasnt lost faith in pruitt, if they had they could have declined his optioned to come back next year already.

and the whole point of the trade for the celtics is to find someone who can take minutes away from pierce at the three, they dont want him playing more than thirty two minutes a night, 40 is entirely too much for him at his age

no way the celtics make a songailia for scal swap, and NO way they take back telfair; the only reason boston would even open up talks would be to try to get gomes

if they are trading away expiring contracts for players they want, they can definitely get a better deal than songalia and brown; look at all the teams with bad contracts that are in financial trouble

john2jer · Post #20 » by **john2jer** » Wed Jul 15, 2009 6:34 pm

Papa Irish31 wrote:Boston hasnt lost faith in pruitt, if they had they could have declined his optioned to come back next year already.

and the whole point of the trade for the celtics is to find someone who can take minutes away from pierce at the three, they dont want him playing more than thirty two minutes a night, 40 is entirely too much for him at his age

no way the celtics make a songailia for scal swap, and NO way they take back telfair; the only reason boston would even open up talks would be to try to get gomes

if they are trading away expiring contracts for players they want, they can definitely get a better deal than songalia and brown; look at all the teams with bad contracts that are in financial trouble

Then you need to find a different team to trade your crap to. Gomes is too valuable for just expirings, especially three meaning we'd have to cut 3 guaranteed contracts.

So at the end of the thread, we're not good trade partners. No big deal. ;-)