Tom Moore 2.0

mhunt · Post #681 » by **mhunt** » Fri Jul 17, 2009 7:22 pm

it's cause & effect. they won't spend money because attendance is horrible. attendance is horrible because they won't spend money.
something's gotta give.

sixerswillrule · Post #682 » by **sixerswillrule** » Fri Jul 17, 2009 7:31 pm

The chicken and the egg...

Gsraider · Post #683 » by **Gsraider** » Fri Jul 17, 2009 7:31 pm

mhunt wrote:it's cause & effect. they won't spend money because attendance is horrible. attendance is horrible because they won't spend money. something's gotta give.

Totally agree. Granted, they did spend money last year and it didn't pan out, but it's one thing to not want to pay the luxury tax and another thing to not even want to come close to it and missing out on guys by only a few dollars. Take R. Carney for example. At his age, what's the problem with giving him multiple years if it's at something like $2-$3 million? Hardly an untradeable deal and a guy that is still pretty young.

oldschool1 · Post #684 » by **oldschool1** » Fri Jul 17, 2009 7:52 pm

" indy_dave00 on Fri Jul 17, 2009 12:35 pm

T.J. Ford makes 8.5 mil his contract has an opt out after the 2009-10 season. Its unlikely he'd opt out but his contract would allow the Sixers 2 years to slowly work Jrue Holiday into the point guard position in the NBA.

Bird loves Dre Miller and would probably be willing to give him a 3 year deal . Currently after the 2010-11 season the Pacers will have huge cap space as Murphy, Dunleavy, Tinsley, Foster and Ford's contract all end following that season. That's 45 mil coming off in one year adding Miller at around 10 in the final year of a new 3 year deal , still leaves the Pacers with huge cap space.

Ford is a solid 14 ppg 7 apg player who could be a fine 2 year patch while Holliday develops "

How about a sign and trade of Miller and wille Green for TJ ford. Both Green and Ford have two years left on their deals. If Indy takes Green's salary of about $3.9 million in 2010, we would be getting Ford for $4.6 million in his second year. Green could easily be replaced with a minumum salary guy.

Post #685 » by **tk76** » Fri Jul 17, 2009 8:38 pm

mhunt wrote:it's cause & effect. they won't spend money because attendance is horrible. attendance is horrible because they won't spend money.
something's gotta give.

Sorry, only have a few years data, but I think you can fill in the blanks:

Sixers payroll:
'02/3: 63.2M, 5th in NBA (median 53M)
~~~
'04-/5: 70.7M, 4th in NBA (median 54M)
~~~
'06/'07: 75M, 4th in NBA, (median 62.5M)
'07/8: 74M, 7th in NBA (median 66M)
'08/9: 66.7M, , 23rd in NBA (median 70M)

Comcast spends money, just not always wisely. If they want to stay at the tax because they are far away from contending- after committing to $180M last summer- I will give them a pass.

They are not selling pick to clear salary. They are not sending away young talent for expiring to clear salary. They are simply not committing to using the MLE to add a mediocre player. Sure, I'd like to see them spend as much as possible to build a winner. But to imply people don't come to game because the team is cheap is ignoring the facts (IMO.) Sorry if I am misreading what you are trying to say.

corwin · Post #686 » by **corwin** » Fri Jul 17, 2009 8:48 pm

I think they are somewhat cheap & their inability to add a little excitement to the roster will only futher alienate the few remaining fans that the team still has. However, I agree with TK that I'm happy that they aren't trading young players or picks to get under the LT. But wait, there's still time for that next year. Hopefully there will be an amnesty & they'll be able to get rid of Kapono or Brand (if he doesn't recover) next year.

ExplosionsInDaSky · Post #687 » by **ExplosionsInDaSky** » Fri Jul 17, 2009 9:42 pm

I would love a Miller for Ford trade if it happened. RealGM has posted another false hope article of "Could the Pacers have interest in Miller"? I love how none of those ever come to life but it would be nice if it did.
TJ Ford coming here would be great for two years. He's still very young and would be a big help.

Bring Back 1983 · Post #688 » by **Bring Back 1983** » Fri Jul 17, 2009 10:34 pm

Somebody get Ed on line 1......his special from the Dollar Menu has just arrived.......the Oklahoma City Thunder just waived Earl Watson.

ryst · Post #689 » by **ryst** » Sat Jul 18, 2009 12:53 am

good to see some of you have joined me in the notion that this team decided they dont want to spend money at all.
i have been saying that since a week into free agency.
they dont care about winning and getting better.
all they care about is not spending money and being cheap
if this ownership group dont care about winning they should just sell this team.
people will come see the team only when they feel there is a managment who have a clear plan for a few years(not one that changes the plan every other year like we saw the last few years)
why should people come watch a team that doesnt want to win?

LongLiveHinkie · Post #690 » by **LongLiveHinkie** » Sat Jul 18, 2009 1:49 am

Winning and spending money are two different things in the NBA. There is no one that they can spend money on to win with regardless. They only have the MLE. They aren't going to win anything regardless.

You can come to them with that argument, but they'd just ask you what the point is of spending money if it isn't going to make you make you into a contender? Since the NBA is so f'ed up, you need to strategically plan your signings to fall in place at the right time. Otherwise you'll never get under the cap or ever recover from misspent money.

radrmd216 · Post #691 » by **radrmd216** » Sat Jul 18, 2009 4:04 am

I think what Ryst is saying is that just cuase the move is little doesn't mean it doesn't matter, but thats not how teams win in the NBA. Other than the 2004 Pistons if a team doesn't have a top 5-10 NBA player they won't win a championship. The real question is will signing a free agent with the MLE make the sixers more fun to watch becuase we all know they won't win a championship. If the Sixers save money now and let the young guys play and sign a MLE free agent in a few years they will probably have a very exciting team. They won't win a champsionship unless they get a top 10 player but the team will be fun to watch.

The Sixers aren't cheap, it sucks they are settleing for lesser players but its btter for the future of the franchise. If some guy bought a Mercedes Benz last summer and doesn't buy a new car this summer I would't call him frugal or cheap. I would say hes making smarter investments for his future.

Tom, if the sixers sign vet min players does the league pay for a portion of the contract.

sixerswillrule · Post #692 » by **sixerswillrule** » Sat Jul 18, 2009 4:23 am

radrmd216 wrote:The Sixers aren't cheap, it sucks they are settleing for lesser players but its btter for the future of the franchise. If some guy bought a Mercedes Benz last summer and doesn't buy a new car this summer I would't call him frugal or cheap. I would say hes making smarter investments for his future.

IBTBFBC (In before the Brand-Ford Bronco comparisons)

ryst · Post #693 » by **ryst** » Sat Jul 18, 2009 4:30 am

radrmd216 wrote:I think what Ryst is saying is that just cuase the move is little doesn't mean it doesn't matter, but thats not how teams win in the NBA. Other than the 2004 Pistons if a team doesn't have a top 5-10 NBA player they won't win a championship. The real question is will signing a free agent with the MLE make the sixers more fun to watch becuase we all know they won't win a championship. If the Sixers save money now and let the young guys play and sign a MLE free agent in a few years they will probably have a very exciting team. They won't win a champsionship unless they get a top 10 player but the team will be fun to watch.

The Sixers aren't cheap, it sucks they are settleing for lesser players but its btter for the future of the franchise. If some guy bought a Mercedes Benz last summer and doesn't buy a new car this summer I would't call him frugal or cheap. I would say hes making smarter investments for his future.

Tom, if the sixers sign vet min players does the league pay for a portion of the contract.

lets say you are right(i dont think you do but lets say you are)
how will the sixers get a top 5-10 player? the only way is to get a high lottery draft pick
other then Shaq no top 5-10 player ever switched a team in free agency.

so even if the sixers dont sign anyone and save the money for some player who might agree to come here(thats the point of saving money now , right?) 99% it wont be a top 5-10 player.

and there is no way to get a high draft pick because this team is too good for that , they will a pick between 12-20

so whats the plan? there is no plan, they need to decide on a plan
they want to save money and get a high pick in the draft? the only way is to gut the team and trade all the big contracts(Brand,Iguodala,Dalembert)
you cant do it the way the team is build right now , so they need to decide what they want to do

i think they got no clue what they are doing, they got an order from the onwership to not to spend money and thats it.
no plan, no clue

radrmd216 · Post #694 » by **radrmd216** » Sat Jul 18, 2009 5:11 am

I don't know if the front office has a plan but not enough time has past for us fans do pick up on what the plan is. I'm sure there is a plan and we will be able to make more sense of it as time passes.

I totally agree that no franchise players change teams through free agency. I wish the Sixers were able to get a top pick in the 07 draft. Durant and Iggy would be a good combo, I don't know if Durant will be a franchise player but he looks good right now. I was saying that the Sixers can be an exciting team to watch but they won't win a championship. I'm saying the Sixers won't get a top 5-10 player. They don't have one on there team and they won't get a top pick and even if they do the player might not be a franchise player.

I'm saying they shouldn't sign a player to a mutli year contract becuase I don't want some overpaid guy on the team. Pretty much every MLE guy is overpaid so I would rather overpay when the team is actually contending and is more complete. There is no reason to sign a MLE free agent at this point in. I like when the team wins but I want to see the young guys play and see who has a future on the team, so I don't a free agent taking minutes in a transitional year.

ryst · Post #695 » by **ryst** » Sat Jul 18, 2009 5:22 am

ok , so what do you want?
to things stay the way it is?

next year the guys who get the MLE will the same level players as this year ,thats how it is every year , there a reason all this players only get MLE contracts.

doesnt matter what happen in 07 , thats the past, we have to look forword.
tell me whats the plan is if you think there is one

on one side you say the sixers are not good enough to win and no MLE or other siginings will help them
and then you say we let the young players get better, for what? there is no superstar on this team, they wont win a championship , so why bother?

if the only goal is to win a championship they need to start over, the way this team is cunstructed right now there are two ways for it to get better
the first one is to make trades and sign players(which mean comminting to more money) and the sixers are cery clear they dont want to do it , they dont want to spend money.

the second way is to get rid of all the big contacts and build from scracth , but the sixers dont want to do that either.

so what do they want? to stay in mediocrity?

that is the plan?
this is why they want us to watch or pay for season tickets?

bebopdeluxe · Post #696 » by **bebopdeluxe** » Sat Jul 18, 2009 5:26 am

Based on how FA has gone for the Sixers so far, I will be happy if they sign Earl Watson.

radrmd216 · Post #697 » by **radrmd216** » Sat Jul 18, 2009 5:53 am

Ryst, with all due respect I think your plan makes the sixers stay is mediocrity. If people just want an exciting team to watch that gets a 4-5 seed then I guess I'd be for signing an MLE player to a mutliyear contract. I'm just saying signing a free agent this offseason won't really help the team other than this year because this team is so young and will change so much in a few years. I would rather sign a free agent when we have a more concrete idea of what the team is rather than not be able to cuase we signed a free agent a couple years prior. I think one full MLE player is enough for a team and I'd rather get that player when the team has more of an identity and personnel is set. I know for a fact if the Sixers signed free agents this year when the team is so young and in transition the fans will be even more any in a year or two.

I'm not really sure how to win a championship. I would rather win a championship than having just an exciting team to watch. It seems like over the past 29 seasons the teams that have won the championship have had at least a top 10 player and another one or two very good players. The only way the those teams got those players was through the draft. If the Sixers want to win a championship they have to draft a player and hope he turns uot to be a top 10 player and still acquire other players around him and that seems very unlikely. The option exception has been the 2004 Pistons team.

I guess the Sixers just won't win a championship. The Sixers can still have an exciting team but they won't win the championship. Over the past 29 seasons only 8 franchises have won a championship and the Sixers we one of them so many other teams haven't won in the past three decades.

radrmd216 · Post #698 » by **radrmd216** » Sat Jul 18, 2009 5:57 am

The teams that have Kobe, Lebron, Wade and Howard or any other franchise players that com along with win the championships. Maybe the Sixers will get a player like that one day but until then they won;t win a championship, but i guess what I'm hearing a lot is a championship isn't everything. The Sixers can still have exciting teams that could go dep in the playoffs but they won;yt win a chmpsionship.

Post #699 » by **tk76** » Sat Jul 18, 2009 6:08 am

They can and should aim to be a young, deep team with lots of tradable assets. Then in 2 years flip some young talent + expirings (WG/Sam) + picks for a vet superstar (1-3 are traded every year.) Then they will be in a position to contend with the older star and the remainder of the young core in its prime.

That is the Sixers best shot top catch lightning in a bottle. Brand and Iguodala would be good complements to the star, but I wonder if their escalating contracts would prevent such a deal. It could be done if they are willing to become a top 4 salary team like they were in the AI years. Also, the cap structure could be changed with the new CBA in 2011.

LongLiveHinkie · Post #700 » by **LongLiveHinkie** » Sat Jul 18, 2009 6:11 am

ryst wrote:ok , so what do you want?
to things stay the way it is?

next year the guys who get the MLE will the same level players as this year ,thats how it is every year , there a reason all this players only get MLE contracts.

doesnt matter what happen in 07 , thats the past, we have to look forword.
tell me whats the plan is if you think there is one

on one side you say the sixers are not good enough to win and no MLE or other siginings will help them
and then you say we let the young players get better, for what? there is no superstar on this team, they wont win a championship , so why bother?

if the only goal is to win a championship they need to start over, the way this team is cunstructed right now there are two ways for it to get better
the first one is to make trades and sign players(which mean comminting to more money) and the sixers are cery clear they dont want to do it , they dont want to spend money.

the second way is to get rid of all the big contacts and build from scracth , but the sixers dont want to do that either.

so what do they want? to stay in mediocrity?

that is the plan?
this is why they want us to watch or pay for season tickets?

The goal is to get a superstar. Either dump Brand somewhere in the next few years for expirings and let Sammy and Willie come off the books to create cap room, or make the lottery and get one there. Even with those options nothing is guaranteed, but at least there is a chance.

One thing is certain and that is if they keep using the MLE and adding players that will keep this team in mediocrity and also the same time add multi-year contracts to the team, then they will be cutting down from the money they have to spend also. This scenario has zero chance to get a superstar.

Mediocre chance vs little chance? I take mediocre chance. At least there is hope for something.

You say they don't want to clear salary, but I think you are way off. I think they do. They just don't have anyone to take on these contracts. I expect you to come back with your theory about how there are these deals out there that the Sixers aren't pulling the trigger on though.