Offseason Grade.

[Qwigglez]

Grading the offseason thus far:

Draft Picks: Earl Clark (14th Pick), Taylor Griffin (48th Pick)
Grade: B
Earl Clark is by far, the most versatile draftee coming from his draft class. He looks pretty solid in the summer league (not against the Grizzlies though), and I have high expectations for him. Taylor Griffin might not even make the roster, I don't see much potential in him.

Trades: Shaquille O'Neal for Ben Wallace, Sasha Pavlovic, cash, 2nd round Draft Pick (Taylor Griffin)
Grade: A
Not even because the Suns go under the luxury tax. To me, it seems like addition by subtraction. Shaq was clogging the middle, and while Shaq did have a fabulous year for himself, he hurt the rest of the team (Nash, Amare, Richardson). I see Richardson being able to drive to the basket more, Nash with more passes, and Amare dominating the paint as well as hitting the 15 foot jumper. Also want to add the no-trade of Amare. Definitely a plus. Reloading, rather than rebuilding.

Signings: Grant Hill (6.3 mil, two years, player option), Channing Frye (4 mil, two years, player option)
Grade: B-
I still think the Suns are gonna make one more signing, until doing so, I'm giving them a lower score here. I'm very surprised Grant Hill stuck with the Suns, but I'm glad he did. I have been wanting the Suns to have Channing Frye since he first arrived in Portland. I think he will shock everyone when he post up double figures consistently. I'm very happy with the signing so far, and I hope the Suns get one more signing before the offseason is over.

Summer League: Goran Dragic, Robin Lopez, Earl Clark, Alando Tucker, Taylor Griffin
Grade: C
Goran Dragic didn't play in the summer league last year, so I think he had to get accustomed to that type of game first. He showed pretty good point guard abilities and I think with confidence, he can be a solid backup for Nash. Robin Lopez beasted in the first summer league game. Not quite the next few. He has shown he's gotten better since last year though. But I been watching the Summer league and its rather boring because of all the whistles blown. Tucker hasn't showed anything significant and Taylor Griffin hasn't either.

Final Grade: B
I think the Suns went in the right direction this offseason. While we still need to resign Nash and Amare, I say it was a pretty successful summer. Also to add, I'm glad the Suns didn't resign Matt Barnes, while I wish Matt Barnes the best, he just didn't really fit well for us.

Note: If this thread has already been created, I apologize for a duplicate thread, delete if necessary. I just wanted to get a new topic going because the ones we got are getting pretty stale.

[MaryvalesFinest]

Draft picks-A+, Earl Clark is already the best defender in this draft class and has the potential to be the second best player. Taylor Griffin was ok consider how late the pick was, an energy and hustle guy is alright with that type of pick.

Shaq trade:B+, Even though the trade helps the Suns both in a financial way and on the court I think they could have still got a first rounder out of it but considering they did what they wanted to do they get a solid B+

Grant Hill and Channing Frye signings: A+, getting Hill back for 3M per year is great and getting Frye for 2M per year is just as great

[chrice]

Drafting Clark was the best thing the Suns did all season. He's a high risk, high reward kind of guy. I would rate the draft as a B, just because how many times we've seen tweeners pan out. Marvin Williams/Harrington/Bender etc.. Tons of potential, but it's definitely not all there yet.

Trades: Shaquille O'Neal for Ben Wallace, Sasha Pavlovic, cash, 2nd round Draft Pick (Taylor Griffin)
F------------ No offense, but I don't know how you can justify giving this an A. It was a pure salary dump and we got garbage in return. We should have at least gotten #30 back from Cleveland. Your reasoning is basically saying that Shaq held the team back, for which I have to disagree. He provided high percentage scoring, better interior rebounding, and better post defense. I know you want to see small ball return to Phoenix, but we've tried it for several seasons, and it never won us a ring. And it's probably not going to win us a ring with our current squad.

Free agency: C Not having a set plan in place really hurt us. If we had Nash/Amare re-signed, we might have had a slight chance with Dyess/Sheed/Gortat. Frye is a good addition, but we're still lacking depth in a lot of departments. Hopefully he can guard Duncan or Gasol or KG, because Amare sure isn't doing it. With Barnes out, we really don't have many defensive options in the back court. Pavlovic is an off and on player.

Overall grade: C-

[Gorilla Warfare]

Clark - B+
Shaq trade - F+
Frye - B-
The rest of this off season prediction - F

Overall Grade - uhhh, Kerr and Sarver are still running this team, D-

[Qwigglez]

I think if the Suns didn't trade Shaq it would have created a reverse domino effect. The Suns wouldn't have resigned Grant Hill, the Suns wouldn't have signed Channing Frye, and the Suns wouldn't have drafted Earl Clark. Nash would most likely not sign an extension or at this point, not even negotiate a extension. Amare would probably not be happy, and he would want out of Phoenix to showcase his talent with another team while Shaq clogs the paint. (I know this may not be true, but as I remember hearing something like Nash wanted Shaq out or he would want to leave, I'm sure Grant was thinking the same thing)

And if you guys are hating Kerr so much for trading for Shaq, then why are you guys hating him even more for trading Shaq away? I would assume, you guys would like that idea, because the Suns are back to run and gun?

Sheed would have been a nice addition, but I think the Suns main focus this offseason was to reintroduce the SSOL system while adding youth to the team

And I know SSOL did NOT bring the Suns a ring, but we got pretty darn close to it, and I think the Suns should have won a ring (or two) if it weren't for injuries (and some BS decisions by Stern). But also, I think the whole idea of a dominant Center and Power Forward is no longer needed to win a championship. The Lakers sure as hell didn't have that, (Bynum played horribly, and was not a contributing factor for the Lakers success) and the Celtics didn't have that either.

I still don't see why everyone is panicking about interior defense. What team really has that right now besides the Orlando Magic, which is solely because of Dwight Howard. The Suns defense was terrible even with Shaq, not because of Shaq but because of careless turnovers passing it into Shaq. The Suns were the worst team in terms of turnovers per game. Not because of Shaq, but because of the Suns players inability to pass the ball into the painted area. Which resulted in fast break opportunities for the opposition, and guess what, Shaq wasn't there on the fast break, easy points for them.

Back to the interior defense. Suns have four big bodies (Amare, Lopez, Frye, Lou, even put Clark and Dudley in there). What we lack on defense we make up on the offensive end. Who can really stop Amare? Better question who do the Suns need to stop in the playoffs? Is it Tim Duncan? As I recall, even with Shaq, Duncan still averaged an impressive 25, 14, and 2.5 blocks against the Suns.

There isn't much differential between all the teams in the NBA and rebounding, from highest rebounding team to low its a margin of 5 rebounds. Which doesn't say much because the Pacers were the second highest team to get the most rebounds per game.

Also, the Lakers were the third highest scoring team in the league, and the Magic were tenth. They both made it to the Finals.

[Risensun]

Nashty pretty much got it right.

Draft- B
Drafting Clark could have made it an A but taking the brotherly love gimmick to a whole new level takes off a letter grade.

Shaq trade- F
No words for this.


Signings-C+

I'm glad to see Hill back and Frye is ok. But Frye won't make a major difference.


Overall grade for fans- D+
Same team as last year 1 year older.


Overall Grade for Sarver/Kerr- $$$$$$$$

[Qwigglez]

I think you guys will very shocked when you see Channing Frye play. He will be a difference maker for the team.

[The Diesel]

These rumors about Hill and Nash wanting Shaq gone are completely wrong, in my opinion.

Shaq and Hill are best friends!

And that article saying that Nash wanted Shaq traded had its own source saying "I think Nash wanted Shaq traded" or something like that.

Even the source is guessing what Nash said to Kerr...the source didn't state it as if it were a fact.

Remember, Nash is the one who pushed for the Shaq trade and defended it even after the season ended this past year.

He insisted the Lakers would have been too big for the Suns with Marion with their front-court of Odom/Bynum/Gasol.

[chrice]

And if you guys are hating Kerr so much for trading for Shaq, then why are you guys hating him even more for trading Shaq away? I would assume, you guys would like that idea, because the Suns are back to run and gun?

Sheed would have been a nice addition, but I think the Suns main focus this offseason was to reintroduce the SSOL system while adding youth to the team

I still don't see why everyone is panicking about interior defense.

Back to the interior defense. Suns have four big bodies (Amare, Lopez, Frye, Lou, even put Clark and Dudley in there). What we lack on defense we make up on the offensive end. Who can really stop Amare? Better question who do the Suns need to stop in the playoffs? Is it Tim Duncan? As I recall, even with Shaq, Duncan still averaged an impressive 25, 14, and 2.5 blocks against the Suns.

There isn't much differential between all the teams in the NBA and rebounding, from highest rebounding team to low its a margin of 5 rebounds. Which doesn't say much because the Pacers were the second highest team to get the most rebounds per game.

Also, the Lakers were the third highest scoring team in the league, and the Magic were tenth. They both made it to the Finals.

First, I never hated the Shaq trade. We did it because we couldn't stop from getting beaten up on the inside by the Spurs, Celtics, and eventually the Lakers. The general concensus is that it's a pre-emptive move. Simply trading Shaq does not warrant anything, let alone an A rating. We got nothing in return except expirings and a 2nd rounder, for a guy who was giving us 16/10 at 60% without full minutes. That is just a joke of a transaction.

Your statement about not panicking about interior defense, is bewildering. Amare is a defensive liability who can take himself out of the game with his ability to pick up quick fouls. Frye is not a great defender. Lopez is not even close to there yet. Amundson is our best defender of the four, but 1 player's defense does not solve the problem of an entire team and he is not a legit center. Shaq made Duncan work for every single point that he got. He played defense well enough for us to win, Duncan always dropped double digits on Kurt too, does that mean he wasn't doing a good job on defense? The fact remains that Amare is still foul proned and a glaring weakspot in the paint that teams aren't afraid to attack him knowing that.

You can't possibly compare our team to the lakers and magic. They were high scoring teams, but they also have something that we don't have. Defense and rebounding and better coaching. Outscoring our opponents will make up for our defense? Not a chance. Defense alone doesn't win games, Offense alone doesn't win games. It's the combination of the two that makes a team successful. Right now just having one part of our game together will not get anything done.

Rebounding kills us. Add up the number of second chance opportunities, and points off of offensive boards we allow, and compare it. There shouldn't even be an argument on that.

[The Diesel]

I just feel really bad for Kerr over all the criticism he gets over the Shaq trade when it's been confirmed that D'Antoni was the one who pushed for it.

When it didn't work, D'Antoni quit and Kerr was left as the guy who everybody is blaming for the trade.

D'Antoni deserves the blame, not Kerr.

[StreetBaller905]

the suns are going to run again with clark being marions replacement

[The Diesel]

Clark is nowhere near the athlete that Marion is. Marion is arguably the best athlete in the NBA. Clark is a good, but not great athlete.

I watched him a lot today and he doesn't run the floor that well.

Marion runs the floor as fast as anyone in the NBA.

[DirtyDez]

I just feel really bad for Kerr over all the criticism he gets over the Shaq trade when it's been confirmed that D'Antoni was the one who pushed for it.

When it didn't work, D'Antoni quit and Kerr was left as the guy who everybody is blaming for the trade.

D'Antoni deserves the blame, not Kerr.

It doesn't matter, the typical Suns fan will blame Kerr for everything because it's easier to blame the GM who got the players rather than the coaches and players who couldn't come through... The TP hire was bad but the fact that Kerr traded for Shaq was a move to win a title. If anyone though our soft team w/ Nash, Marion and Amare would've beat Boston that year is insane

[Kerrsed]

Clark is nowhere near the athlete that Marion is. Marion was arguably the best athlete in the NBA 3 years ago. Clark is a good, but not great athlete yet.

I watched him a lot today and he doesn't run the floor that well.

Marion use to run the floor as fast as anyone in the NBA.

Fixed it for ya' !!

[Qwigglez]

First, I never hated the Shaq trade. We did it because we couldn't stop from getting beaten up on the inside by the Spurs, Celtics, and eventually the Lakers. The general concensus is that it's a pre-emptive move. Simply trading Shaq does not warrant anything, let alone an A rating. We got nothing in return except expirings and a 2nd rounder, for a guy who was giving us 16/10 at 60% without full minutes. That is just a joke of a transaction.

Your statement about not panicking about interior defense, is bewildering. Amare is a defensive liability who can take himself out of the game with his ability to pick up quick fouls. Frye is not a great defender. Lopez is not even close to there yet. Amundson is our best defender of the four, but 1 player's defense does not solve the problem of an entire team and he is not a legit center. Shaq made Duncan work for every single point that he got. He played defense well enough for us to win, Duncan always dropped double digits on Kurt too, does that mean he wasn't doing a good job on defense? The fact remains that Amare is still foul proned and a glaring weakspot in the paint that teams aren't afraid to attack him knowing that.

You can't possibly compare our team to the lakers and magic. They were high scoring teams, but they also have something that we don't have. Defense and rebounding and better coaching. Outscoring our opponents will make up for our defense? Not a chance. Defense alone doesn't win games, Offense alone doesn't win games. It's the combination of the two that makes a team successful. Right now just having one part of our game together will not get anything done.

Rebounding kills us. Add up the number of second chance opportunities, and points off of offensive boards we allow, and compare it. There shouldn't even be an argument on that.

Again I think it was addition by subtraction. What were the Suns really gonna accomplish with Shaq in the lineup this upcoming year? And also, I gave the Suns an A rating mostly because the Suns didn't make any more trades.
Let me make this straight, the Shaq trade warrants a D grade because the Suns did not get anything in return for him, but the Suns not trading Amare gives the grade an A because there is no way the Suns get as much value in return for Amare. I agree with the fact that the Suns should have traded Shaq for something better than a second round pick but I also looked at the positives. Amare will have more points in the paint, and when Amare is productive on offense he tends to play better on defense (slightly). Remember, Amare did average 2 blocks in the season of 2007-2008. Richardson will play better with Shaq gone, Nash will play better, etc.
The Suns got killed by the Spurs every year in the playoffs. Regardless of Marion, Shaq, Kurt, everyone. The reason the Suns got killed was Tony Parker and Manu Ginobli, not because of Duncan.
Amare will play better defense next year I guarantee it. The Suns should also win 50 games if there are no injuries.

[BurningHeart]

Well.....

We resigned Hill, drafted Clarck, about to re-sign Nash, and didn't trade Stoudemire yet.

Meh. C.

[Qwigglez]

Clark is nowhere near the athlete that Marion is. Marion is arguably the best athlete in the NBA. Clark is a good, but not great athlete.

I watched him a lot today and he doesn't run the floor that well.

Marion runs the floor as fast as anyone in the NBA.

Clark and Marion are pretty similar actually. If Clark gets the minutes Marion got when Marion was a rookie I expect the same type of numbers.
Marion averaged 10 and 6 with 24 minutes per game.
I think if Clark starts over Hill, it will only boost Clark's numbers as he would be playing more with Nash. I think the Suns should experiment with Grant Hill coming off the bench for a few games and see what Clark's production will look like.

[pidi]

first off - can you realy compare clark to marion?? did clark showed anything yet? let him develope his own game and let´s see if he can put up solid number´s. you wanna start here instead of ghill?? come on now - not gonna happen.

let´s grade the offseason:

trades:

we traded shaq for ben wallace and pavlovic - ben wallace got bought out / we traded shaq for pavlovic and some money savings. for the business standpoint it´s an A

but what will happen to the team. can you place money on court and let ´em play center? no -
so from that standpoint it´s a 6 ( in germany 1 is the best / 6 the worst )

if we are trying to start lopez at 5 than good night - so something has to happen - and if we sign someone like ryan hollins or swift ( robert or stro doesn´t matter ) than i would grade the upper one to a 4

we resigned ghill, are going to resign nash, got rid of barnes, signed frye.. that sounds good to me - so give kerr a 2

so all in all, we still need a center and we need a back up pg - with no money...

[Qwigglez]

If I didn't make it clear enough in my previous post I said experiment with Clark starting instead of Grant Hill to see what his type of production is.
Suns have plenty of money still. They still have most of their MLE left. The chance of Sarver using that money is unlikely however.

[pidi]

^^ do we have money? i thought with the buyout of ben wallace we are just under the maximum of salarie..

i´d love it to have a vet pg and a vet center on this roster. if we sign two players for this positions we are set to make the playoffs..