Alex Rios should lead off

silverhill27 · Post #1 » by **silverhill27** » Wed Jul 22, 2009 2:59 am

I think Alex Rios, like Bargnani, would play better with a defined role and that should be the leadoff spot. Look at the teams in the AL East, they all have speed at the top of the lineup, Jeter, Ellsbury (will be back at that spot soon), Upton, and Roberts. It's time to look towards next year and Scutaro, although he's been exceptional this year, is not our answer at the leadoff position in the future. In the past, we were afraid to waste Rios' power so we made him the 3 hitter however that fear should no longer exist. I know Rios isn't the most disciplined hitter however he's an extra base machine and strikes fear in the opposing pitchers on the basepaths. We have him locked up until 2014, it's time to try to make him into something useful instead of sticking him in the 6 spot hoping that his power will come.

Hoopstarr · Post #2 » by **Hoopstarr** » Wed Jul 22, 2009 3:22 am

I don't think there would be much of a difference (http://www.baseball-reference.com/playe ... &t=b#lineu). His career OBP isn't good and most importantly Marco Scutaro is perfect for now with his .383 OBP. The real change needs to be moving Rios to CF permanently. Vernon has been the worst CF in baseball by UZR rating for the last 2 years while Rios has been the best RF and one of the top 3 OFs overall since his first full season in 2006.

silverhill27 · Post #3 » by **silverhill27** » Wed Jul 22, 2009 3:31 am

I'm not a stats guy so I don't really understand all those numbers however I do know that Scutaro is not a longterm option at 34 years old. He draws a lot of walks, great, but he lacks base stealing ability. Don't get me wrong, if it were game 7 of the world series i would have scoots lead off however it's time to look towards the future and make the most out of Rios. We have him until 2014 for 12 million a year I believe. We know he has talent, we know he can hit and we know that putting him at the 3 spot is a mistake. Why waste a potential asset at the 6 spot when he could flourish at the leadoff spot. All I'm saying is since we're out of it this year, give him 70 games at the leadoff spot, see how it does. If we give him a defined role for the next 3-4 years, I'm sure he'd be willing to work on plate discipline and increase his OBP. Best case scenario, we have a leadoff hitter to match the likes of Ellsbury, Jeter, Roberts and Upton. Worst-case, we figure out he truely sucks and try to trade him to a team who's still intruiged by his potential.

silverhill27 · Post #4 » by **silverhill27** » Wed Jul 22, 2009 3:32 am

I'm not a stats guy so I don't really understand all those numbers however I do know that Scutaro is not a longterm option at 34 years old. He draws a lot of walks, great, but he lacks base stealing ability. Don't get me wrong, if it were game 7 of the world series i would have scoots lead off however it's time to look towards the future and make the most out of Rios. We have him until 2014 for 12 million a year I believe. We know he has talent, we know he can hit and we know that putting him at the 3 spot is a mistake. Why waste a potential asset at the 6 spot when he could flourish at the leadoff spot. All I'm saying is since we're out of it this year, give him 70 games at the leadoff spot, see how it does. If we give him a defined role for the next 3-4 years, I'm sure he'd be willing to work on plate discipline and increase his OBP. Best case scenario, we have a leadoff hitter to match the likes of Ellsbury, Jeter, Roberts and Upton. Worst-case, we figure out he truely sucks and try to trade him to a team who's still intruiged by his potential.

J-Roc · Post #5 » by **J-Roc** » Wed Jul 22, 2009 4:31 am

The reason I like Rios as a leadoff hitter is because he has no pressure to pound the ball. He can go up with his wussy batting stance and approach and just look for contact/line drives. He's a Tony Fernandez type hitter in a power hitter's body. Everyone wants him to hit for power, but he's better suited to hitting singles.

Hoopstarr · Post #6 » by **Hoopstarr** » Wed Jul 22, 2009 4:51 am

J-Roc wrote:The reason I like Rios as a leadoff hitter is because he has no pressure to pound the ball. He can go up with his wussy batting stance and approach and just look for contact/line drives. He's a Tony Fernandez type hitter in a power hitter's body. Everyone wants him to hit for power, but he's better suited to hitting singles.

How the hell does he have a "wussy batting stance"? Did you not see him at the Home Run Derby a couple years ago or heard commentators/scouts raving about his swing and approach at the plate? Rios seems to get a lot of doubles for a "singles hitter".

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/columns/story?id=1638235

Scouting report
Rios is a solid athlete. He has filled his body out, and is now lanky, lean and strong, rather than thin and wiry. His speed is above-average, which has a positive impact both on the bases and in the field, although he may slow down some with age. Rios has plus bat speed, and has refined his swing considerably. He still needs to improve his plate discipline, but it is better than it was a couple of years ago. He'll never be a walk machine, but he's a long way from being a strikeout-prone swing-from-the-heels guy. He makes good contact, and the ball jumps off his bat. The biggest question right now is how much power he'll develop. Some see him turning into a 40-home run slugger in the Juan Gonzalez mode, while others think he'll settle into the 15-20 home run range, though with a high batting average. He's definitely toolsy, and it looks like he's developing skills as well.

The_Hater · Post #7 » by **The_Hater** » Wed Jul 22, 2009 1:13 pm

Lost in this idea is the fact that Marco Scuturo has been one of the best lead-off hitters in baseball this season. 382 OBP and on pace for 100 walks and over 100 runs scored. So why would Cito experiment with Rios and his 320 OBP leading off when he already has a solution in place?

J-Roc · Post #8 » by **J-Roc** » Wed Jul 22, 2009 1:31 pm

Hoopstarr wrote:
J-Roc wrote:The reason I like Rios as a leadoff hitter is because he has no pressure to pound the ball. He can go up with his wussy batting stance and approach and just look for contact/line drives. He's a Tony Fernandez type hitter in a power hitter's body. Everyone wants him to hit for power, but he's better suited to hitting singles.

How the hell does he have a "wussy batting stance"? Did you not see him at the Home Run Derby a couple years ago or heard commentators/scouts raving about his swing and approach at the plate? Rios seems to get a lot of doubles for a "singles hitter".

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/columns/story?id=1638235

Scouting report
Rios is a solid athlete. He has filled his body out, and is now lanky, lean and strong, rather than thin and wiry. His speed is above-average, which has a positive impact both on the bases and in the field, although he may slow down some with age. Rios has plus bat speed, and has refined his swing considerably. He still needs to improve his plate discipline, but it is better than it was a couple of years ago. He'll never be a walk machine, but he's a long way from being a strikeout-prone swing-from-the-heels guy. He makes good contact, and the ball jumps off his bat. The biggest question right now is how much power he'll develop. Some see him turning into a 40-home run slugger in the Juan Gonzalez mode, while others think he'll settle into the 15-20 home run range, though with a high batting average. He's definitely toolsy, and it looks like he's developing skills as well.

Well as it turns out, he's more of the batting average "contact" hitter than the Juan Gonzalez power hitter. This one "expert" couldn't himself determine which one Rios would be. It's because he's a big guy who can generate power, but his swing is that of a contact hitter. Jesse Barfield thinks Rios needs to stand up taller, which would mean he should just become more of a power hitter. I think he should just soften up his swing and go for contact. He's a tweener now. He needs to pick one direction.

zilby · Post #9 » by **zilby** » Wed Jul 22, 2009 2:15 pm

i like that idea. more of a contact hitter.

Hoopstarr · Post #10 » by **Hoopstarr** » Wed Jul 22, 2009 2:27 pm

J-Roc wrote:
Well as it turns out, he's more of the batting average "contact" hitter than the Juan Gonzalez power hitter. This one "expert" couldn't himself determine which one Rios would be. It's because he's a big guy who can generate power, but his swing is that of a contact hitter. Jesse Barfield thinks Rios needs to stand up taller, which would mean he should just become more of a power hitter. I think he should just soften up his swing and go for contact. He's a tweener now. He needs to pick one direction.

That "expert" is John Sickels, he's a very well-known baseball writer and scout who writes a prospect book and has a website about minor league prospects http://www.minorleagueball.com/). You seem to think it's easy to become a 40 HR hitter; I remember you complaining that the Jays don't have a 40 HR hitter in the lineup. Well, they're not just lying around to be had--there were only two 40 HR guys last year in baseball. Plus, they could've kept Delgado or signed Manny if they were willing to pay and Glaus was a high-30s guy until he asked out. Rios standing more upright isn't going to make a difference; he's simply not a power hitter. You might as well call Nick Markakis a tweener. They are what they are--solid contact hitters who hit lots of doubles and around 20 HR. Nothing wrong with that at all, and it definitely doesn't make them Tony Fernandez or Tony Gwynn.

silverhill27 · Post #11 » by **silverhill27** » Wed Jul 22, 2009 3:04 pm

The_Hater wrote:Lost in this idea is the fact that Marco Scuturo has been one of the best lead-off hitters in baseball this season. 382 OBP and on pace for 100 walks and over 100 runs scored. So why would Cito experiment with Rios and his 320 OBP leading off when he already has a solution in place?

Time to look towards next season. Although Scoots has been great, he's 34 and not in the longterm picture while we have Rios for 12 million until 2014. Why waste such a talent and investment at the 6 spot? We know he can't handle the 3 spot so why not try leading him off again where he can concentrate on putting contact on the ball and using his speed instead of trying to find a power stroke that we all know doesn't exist.

Modern_epic · Post #12 » by **Modern_epic** » Wed Jul 22, 2009 5:42 pm

Batting order spots are almost entirely inconsequential.

Hoopstarr · Post #13 » by **Hoopstarr** » Wed Jul 22, 2009 7:20 pm

Modern_epic wrote:Batting order spots are almost entirely inconsequential.

Agreed. Unless, you're doing something ridiculous like batting your 3 best players 7-8-9, it doesn't matter. The nice and neat batting order you think you've got gets broken up by outs and innings so it's pointless. Just put your best 6-7 hitters at the top, set it, and forget it.

I've seen Tony LaRussa bat his pitcher 8th so that the top of the order doesn't have a pitcher in front of them but at the same time you risk having a pitcher bat behind good hitters.