Sessions Update:Ramon signs T-Wolves OS (page 310 update)

[BucksRUS]

I think the Wolves pick is unprotected in 2012 not 2011.

[blkout]

I mean, completely ignore he has average 5/5, 11/10, 11/9 during his first three seasons and 11/9 for his entire career...

So Bogut puts up 11/9 for his career and you justify his contract, Lee puts up 11/9 for his career and you say he's not worth the same contract... are you the only person allowed to consider variables when judging a players value? Because you sure seemed intent on telling me I could only consider statistics.

[Newz]

re⋅al⋅i⋅ty
  /riˈælɪti/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [ree-al-i-tee] Show IPA
Use reality in a Sentence
–noun, plural -ties for 3, 5–7.
1. the state or quality of being real.
2. resemblance to what is real.
3. a real thing or fact.
4. real things, facts, or events taken as a whole; state of affairs: the reality of the business world; vacationing to escape reality.
5. Philosophy.
a. something that exists independently of ideas concerning it.
b. something that exists independently of all other things and from which all other things derive.
6. something that is real.
7. something that constitutes a real or actual thing, as distinguished from something that is merely apparent.

When not playing in the Knicks new system...

5/5
11/10
11/9

11/9 for his career.

Are those numbers not reality?

When using what happened in reality the previous 3 season and taking a sample over the entire length of his career... Combined with a little common sense and minor basketball knowledge, one can easily determine that David Lee is in fact not what he averaged last season.

[blkout]

It's a fact that David Lee averaged 16 points and 12 rebounds last season. You can't dispute that because it is a fact. You can claim on another team he might've averaged less, but that is not a fact because it did not happen. How is this not clear to you.

When did I say that he didn't average 16/12? I have said MULTIPLE TIMES that he averaged 16/12 on 55% shooting.

You are asking me if I am reading your posts, are you reading mine?

You said in reality he's an 8/8 guy. You then contradict yourself by saying in reality he averaged 16/12 on 55%. So in reality he's an 8/8 guy averaging 16/12 in reality. Do you see how ridiculous that sounds?

[Newz]

I mean, completely ignore he has average 5/5, 11/10, 11/9 during his first three seasons and 11/9 for his entire career...

So Bogut puts up 11/9 for his career and you justify his contract, Lee puts up 11/9 for his career and you say he's not worth the same contract... are you the only person allowed to consider variables when judging a players value? Because you sure seemed intent on telling me I could only consider statistics.

You weren't talking about his career.

You were talking about last season and insisting that in reality David Lee is a 16/12 player.

[blkout]

When using what happened in reality the previous 3 season and taking a sample over the entire length of his career... Combined with a little common sense and minor basketball knowledge, one can easily determine that David Lee is in fact not what he averaged last season.

You are back tracking my friend. And surely minor basketball knowledge would tell you that players naturally improve throughout their careers. Does that not apply to David Lee? I've never denied that his system has helped his stats, what I'm saying is that he scored those points and pulled down those rebounds. That is reality as it stands today. You were talking about how he's an 8/8 guy averaging 16/12 because of the system he plays in, now you're bringing up the rest of his career in which he played in a different system (and still didn't put up less than 8/8 aside from his rookie season).. you're tying yourself in knots.

[mcfromage]

This Pliska/Citizen back and forth on the nature of reality and David Lee is the most boring sub-topic I've read in ages.

I want something to happen so we can talk about something new. I'm completely bored by RealGM right now and it's annoying.

[Newz]

So in reality he's an 8/8 guy averaging 16/12 in reality.

He is a guy, who I have stated multiple times, can average between 8/8 and 10/10...

He averaged 16/12 because in reality he played in a system that inflates statistics. The reality is that if he played in a different system, he would be averaging around what he averages before this season.

It doesn't sound ridiculous to me because the reality is that he averaged stats better than he is normally capable of putting up because he played in a system that inflates players numbers.

I'm not trying to say that he didn't average 16/12 last season. DAVID LEE AVERAGED SIXTEEN POINTS AND TWELVE REBOUNDS LAST YEAR.

[MajorDad]

bernam. I love your use of stats. Nice link too.

using your provided link, i noticed randolph had a + 5.6. so why isn't he loved by anybody here except for me? Using the roland rater stats, Randolph is clearly a difference maker. but for some reason nobody uses these roland stats when they want to dis Randolph. they always use some other stats , or they make up their own stats. bernam, if we follow your advice to use the roland stats to evaluate NBA players, then i think we should be praising randolph. Otherwise , this roland stat is rather meaningless. To be a valid , a ratings process should be used equally and applied without question for all players. Perhaps these are the stats the memphis GM used when he decided to trade for randolph.

it's interesting that Joe was a --4 GADz was a --5 and Allen was a --9. I also noticed landry and horford were both at 0, but they seem to get a lot of love from posters on this board. bowen - known for his defense - was a surprising - (minus) 7.9 last year. only Dante jones was worse in the overall roland ratings.

Sessions at +4.0 is better than the net's Harris at +3.9. Wow, i didn't realize Sessions was better than harris or even close . We need to sign him immediately.

the problem with using stats, is that different people use different stats , and they only refer to ones that make their take or slant look the way they want it to look. and then when people try to debate or clarify/qualify the stats they used, they claim the stats are too small of a sample size. or the stats were created when others were injured. or the stats were generated against poor defenders. or they were created against the other team's second unit. or they were career stats or they were just last years' stats , or they were stats created in the player's best month and toatally ignore the other months of the year (Sessions) or. or. or . or . or .

i would be fine with people using stats if everybody used the same ones. but when you have people using regular stats , and then people using per minute stats, or the roland stats or the created wins stats, it becomes a waste of time trying to compare the stats and have a logical discussion and comparison of the players.

That's why i tend to not use stats but rather logical reasoning in comparing players.

Logical reasoning says there are now only two teams interested in Sessions . and I' m not so sure the Clippers are really that interested in Sessions at all. the logical reasoning is if nobody besides the Clippers is really that interested in Sessions, why should the Bucks have interest in him? red flag being hung high. if nobody else is going to make him an offer, why should the Bucks give him anything more than their qualifying offer? If sessiosns has no other offers , why should the bucks outbid themselves and give him a 4 year deal at $4 million per? Where is Sessions going to go ?

Rather than resigning Sessions, they need to move on. For the same money, I'd rather spend it on Miller or Warrick or felton, or NAte or many other available players.

[stevescheffler06]

Topic cleanser: Anyone catch So You Think You Can Dance last night? No? Just me huh? Ok.

[blkout]

I mean, completely ignore he has average 5/5, 11/10, 11/9 during his first three seasons and 11/9 for his entire career...

So Bogut puts up 11/9 for his career and you justify his contract, Lee puts up 11/9 for his career and you say he's not worth the same contract... are you the only person allowed to consider variables when judging a players value? Because you sure seemed intent on telling me I could only consider statistics.

You weren't talking about his career.

You were talking about last season and insisting that in reality David Lee is a 16/12 player.

We can go that route too... and I mentioned his career because you brought it up. Based on Bogut's last season statistically he's still not worth the money he got, so the argument stays exactly the same. Like I said, you're saying I have to think Lee is worth the max because I think he is a player who averaged 16/12. Yet Bogut can average 14/8 or whatever and be worth 10 mil a season because of intangibles. My issue is with that, why are you saying I can only judge Lee by one criteria but you are able to judge Bogut's contract by more?

I'm not trying to say that he didn't average 16/12 last season. DAVID LEE AVERAGED SIXTEEN POINTS AND TWELVE REBOUNDS LAST YEAR.

You said in reality he's an 8-8 guy. This must be an alternate reality because as you said, he averaged 16/12 last season. For last season he was a 16/12 guy. For the season before that he was 11/9 or whatever. And so on. This is growing tiresome I'm sure you'll agree.

[Bernman]

So given the probability that David Lee would be a mediocre starter in the Bucks' system, you think it'd be a prudent decision by the Bucks to allocate him above average starter money?

Personally I do, because at the moment the Bucks have the worst PF rotation in the entire NBA so regardless of anyone's opinion of Lee as a player, he would be the best PF on the team by default purely because the others are so bad. So by Bucks standards he is an above average starter. If I were another team would I give him above average starter money? That's a whole nother matter.

The Bucks aren't going to win a championship, or even be a fringe contender next year. Hell, if they'd make the playoffs, with an addition of a mediocre starting power forward, that'd even be a surprise to most. And it's not like being the 18th or so best team out of 30 in the NBA, in reality, is some kind of worthy accomplishment. Yay, we're almost as good as half the teams in the NBA. Have some pride men. The Bucks would be better off not being myopic and realizing that if they invest 8 million dollars per season (plus probably escalating to 10 million on the back end), however he plays it what they're destined to be at that position for the coming years, which is probably mediocre, and they'd be better off being patient, and addressing the long term need in next year's draft which is loaded w/ quality 4's. Even if they show their ineptness by BUCKING the probabilities, as they often do, that's to their own discredit, but at least the player would have a modest contract and be movable on potential for a while. You sign a free agent who makes 9-10 million dollars on the back end, and you're locked in to him or his equivalent in a trade for the length of the contract (probably 5 years in Lee's case).

[Dobber-16]

This Pliska/Citizen back and forth on the nature of reality and David Lee is the most boring sub-topic I've read in ages.

I want something to happen so we can talk about something new. I'm completely bored by RealGM right now and it's annoying.

How in the hell did the "Candy Man" get involved in this thread. He's been out of the league for a couple of years.

[Newz]

This is growing tiresome I'm sure you'll agree.

I agree.

I understand what you are trying to say and I have said that I understand it a million **** times. I just admitted it in my last post that David Lee averaged 16 points and 12 rebounds last year, in reality those were his statistics... Yet you continue to argue, for some reason.

Apparently you couldn't comprehend what I was trying to say to you though. I know what the definition of the word is. I think you are trying to be too smart for your own good though, considering we are talking about basketball on an internet forum, and clearly completely missed that I obviously understand what you are trying to say.

[blkout]

This Pliska/Citizen back and forth on the nature of reality and David Lee is the most boring sub-topic I've read in ages.

I want something to happen so we can talk about something new. I'm completely bored by RealGM right now and it's annoying.

Then contribute something worth reading yourself. Why wait for everyone else to do it for you?

Apparently you couldn't comprehend what I was trying to say to you though. I know what the definition of the word is. I think you are trying to be too smart for your own good though, considering we are talking about basketball on an internet forum, and clearly completely missed that I obviously understand what you are trying to say.

The thing is, that is exactly how I feel about you and your argument. We'll never reach a conclusion on this, lets just see how the season plays out I suppose.

[Newz]

This Pliska/Citizen back and forth on the nature of reality and David Lee is the most boring sub-topic I've read in ages.

I want something to happen so we can talk about something new. I'm completely bored by RealGM right now and it's annoying.

Then contribute something worth reading yourself. Why wait for everyone else to do it for you?

Yeah, at least we are doing something with our time! Who cares if it is arguing about pointless nonsense.

Me + Citizen were...

Now we are...

[blkout]

This Pliska/Citizen back and forth on the nature of reality and David Lee is the most boring sub-topic I've read in ages.

I want something to happen so we can talk about something new. I'm completely bored by RealGM right now and it's annoying.

Then contribute something worth reading yourself. Why wait for everyone else to do it for you?

Yeah, at least we are doing something with our time! Who cares if it is arguing about pointless nonsense.

Me + Citizen were...

Now we are...

I could definitely use a beer now. **** David Lee, he'd better deliver next season.

[MajorDad]

lukepilska:

i think citizen eros knows exactly what you were saying.

and like so many other real gm posters, he was just arguing with you - pulling your chain - because he's really bored and has no life and wants to see what your reaction will be and how mad you will get.

it's something a lot of real gm posters have stooped to doing lately.

a lot of posters here lately don't really want to get into a reasonable discussion. they just want to argue over semantics, and pull other posters' chains and get a reaction.

what should be a 5 page thread of information soon turns into a 50 page thread of nothing but personal attacks.

[blkout]

and like so many other real gm posters, he was just arguing with you - pulling your chain - because he's really bored and has no life and wants to see what your reaction will be and how mad you will get.

Why would I want to make someone mad over the internet? I have an opinion, he has an opinion. We debated it. Why are you trying to start something when it's been finished...

[Newz]

lukepilska:

i think citizen eros knows exactly what you were saying.

and like so many other real gm posters, he was just arguing with you - pulling your chain - because he's really bored and has no life and wants to see what your reaction will be and how mad you will get.

it's something a lot of real gm posters have stooped to doing lately.

a lot of posters here lately don't really want to get into a reasonable discussion. they just want to argue over semantics, and pull other posters' chains and get a reaction.

what should be a 5 page thread of information soon turns into a 50 page thread of nothing but personal attacks.

Umm... Incase you missed it.