Bobcats / Kings..Kevin Martin anyone?

[Walt Cronkite]

^Ya gotta give to get

[thruthefire]

I like Augustin/Mohammed for Martin much, much more. A great scorer to go with our stud defense.

[Walt Cronkite]

Kings would have to be really desperate. DJ makes a better backcourt mate with Evans than Felton does, though.

[RichBoy923]

I really want Jason Thompson from Sacramento. If it involves him I'd have to give it a hard look.

[WaydownSouth]

Kings ain't dumb enough for the DJ/Mohammed move.

As Walt said you have to give to get, and sorry, giving that deal regardless of how much potential DJ has is lowballing. We get so many bad trade suggestions here because other teams think they can offer a low ball deal. We are doing the exact same thing by offering DJ/Mohammed .

EDIT (for this trade)

Martin makes the following $44,239,690 over the next 4 seasons

Do a sign and trade with Felton for his $6 mill a season (+8% rises) and offer him a 6 year contract

1st year: 6,000,000
2nd year: 6,480,000
3rd year: 6,998,400
4th year: 7,558,272 (ETO)
5th year: 8,162,933
6th year: 8,815,967
TOTAL: $44,015,572

Felton gets his above MLE contract (just), and he'd be a starter at Sac. If Felton took the ETO after 4 years, Sac save coin overall and they fill a need with a good PG. The hand the SG reins to Evans (who apparently is as good as Lebron going by the reports on the trades and transactions thread) and Charlotte get a go-to scorer to Martin. The Cats hand the reins to DJ and we'll see if the kid sinks or swims.

If a filler and/or 2nd rounder required then give it up.

[dmutombo321]

Kings ain't dumb enough for the DJ/Mohammed move.

As Walt said you have to give to get, and sorry, giving that deal regardless of how much potential DJ has is lowballing. We get so many bad trade suggestions here because other teams think they can offer a low ball deal. We are doing the exact same thing by offering DJ/Mohammed .

EDIT (for this trade)

Martin makes the following $44,239,690 over the next 4 seasons

Do a sign and trade with Felton for his $6 mill a season (+8% rises) and offer him a 6 year contract

1st year: 6,000,000
2nd year: 6,480,000
3rd year: 6,998,400
4th year: 7,558,272 (ETO)
5th year: 8,162,933
6th year: 8,815,967
TOTAL: $44,015,572

Felton gets his above MLE contract (just), and he'd be a starter at Sac. If Felton took the ETO after 4 years, Sac save coin overall and they fill a need with a good PG. The hand the SG reins to Evans (who apparently is as good as Lebron going by the reports on the trades and transactions thread) and Charlotte get a go-to scorer to Martin. The Cats hand the reins to DJ and we'll see if the kid sinks or swims.

If a filler and/or 2nd rounder required then give it up.

I like the way you structured your Felton contract, especially as far as a sign and trade is concerned. Perhaps in addition to Felton's ETO after year 3 (which he would theoretically exercise to seek a more lucrative deal if he blows up), a team option could be inserted for year 6 (which a team could exercise if felton doesnt blow up and remains the very good but not quite elite PG that he is)

As for as your trade is concerned, unless I'm misunderstanding your proposal, I'd say Sac would find Felton + filler for Martin just as unappealing as DJ + Filler for Martin and perhaps any more lopsided.

Martin's a 25ppg scorer who would be an allstar lock here in the east. I think the only way you'd acquire Martin would be in a larger deal involving Okafor. Getting someone like Hawes or Thompson back would be a definite downgrade and hardly fill Okafor's void at the 5 but at least they'd be young, cheap, servicable and have alot of upside.

Even then, as stated earlier, Sac would only consider such a deal if they succumb to monetary losses, league worst attendance and throw in the rebuilding towel and decide they want to improve immediatly and compete for a playoff spot now instead of 3 years from now.

Charlotte's biggest problem, and the whole reason I even threw this out there as food for thought, is their anemic offense. We're a very good team defensively but we rank dead last in the league in scoring. It was plainly visable to us countless times last year; long offensive dry spells in the 4th quarter when the offense stagnates and we have nobody to relay on who can create their own shot at the end of possessions.

Until this is rectified, its highly unlikely we see the playoffs and, if we defy the odds and do make it, we sure as hell wont be winning any series.

Improving offensively will cost us on defense. But if they can make a move that improves their scoring by 30% (particularly when they currently rank dead last in the NBA) at the expense of a 20% reduction in defensive efficiency -where they are already strong- I think it's worth it.

[spectre_]

Improving offensively will cost us on defense. But if they can make a move that improves their scoring by 30% (particularly when they currently rank dead last in the NBA) at the expense of a 20% reduction in defensive efficiency -where they are already strong- I think it's worth it.

I thought your whole post was very good but I especially liked the part quoted above. IMO that's how LB's going to look at itand we should too.

How good (or bad) is Martin's D?

[dmutombo321]

Improving offensively will cost us on defense. But if they can make a move that improves their scoring by 30% (particularly when they currently rank dead last in the NBA) at the expense of a 20% reduction in defensive efficiency -where they are already strong- I think it's worth it.

I thought your whole post was very good but I especially liked the part quoted above. IMO that's how LB's going to look at itand we should too.

How good (or bad) is Martin's D?

Spectre, I’ve seen quite a bit of Sacramento via League Pass and I’d say Martin’s slender frame undeniably hinders him defensively on an individual level. However, as I posted earlier, while he wont be shutting anyone down, he’s not a horrendous liability either and also plays good team defense.

If we part with any of our core to pursue Martin or another similar big game scorer to improve our offense, while our defensive standing would certainly suffer, I think some of the pain could be minimized between LB’s coaching, the defense oriented locker room culture with vocal leaders like Raja and LB’s team oriented defensive schemes.

Something has to be done to upgrade the offensive potency of this roster though or they’ll be facing another year in the lottery.

[artest420]

from the kings side, no. the talks would have to start at dj and okafor. if you look at how hawes did whatever he wanted to against shaq and yao would prove enough for the kings to say no to the initial deal. either way, no chance martin gets traded this year unless one of those insane trade offers came along.

[WaydownSouth]

I think a S&T with Felton is fairer than DJ and Nazr. With the S&T they get to keep their promising big man in Hawes, and add a starting PG in Felton. Felton will be able to contribute straight off the bat, whilst Nazr is basically a waste of roster space for them if they retain Hawes. I think a DJ/Evans backcourt would be a huge defensive liability. We all know Felton can defend when he sets his mind to it.

I don't think the potential of DJ alone is enough, and lets face it, he's a midget PG that can shoot, and when has a midget PG really gotten anywhere in this league. The last one that I can think off was Michael Adams when he was in Denver. Sure, Mugsy, Boykins etc were good and fun to watch, but they would never be the cornerstone in a trade. I see DJ as being more of the 'filler' to get teams to bite. No team will trade a SG for a midget PG. The Cats need offence, but sadly I don't think DJ can provide what we need. He'll have a spot in the league, but I don't see the Kings wanting DJ for potential only. Felton at least has some decent size, plays pretty good D and can run an offence.

What the Kings trade away in offence, they will get a decent percentage back in Felton, plus whatever Evans provides. Evans and Martin together won't work too well, especially once Evans gets some games under his belt.

I think the S&T Felton + filler (or 2nd rounder) deal has more appeal to the Kings than DJ/Nazr.

Edit: Yeah, sorry DMutumbo, I still don't mind the 1st trade suggested by the Kings member. I just think that maybe we are giving away a little too much with both Okafor and Felton in one trade at the same time (I don't think Jinx will amount to much in this league) for one player. If that player was a perennial all star, and to be honest, I'm thinking the elite players than I wouldn't mind trading both.

I wouldn't mind trading one, but I think both have been around long enough with Charlotte that people automatically associated them with the Bobcats. Okafor was seen as the Cats cornerstone and Felton is his back-up. Felton is a local and 'm not sure the fans would be pleased with trading Okafor and Felton in the same deal to only get back Kevin Martin.

If Okafor was traded to Sac, then I'd also want Hawes or Thompson. I'd still be sweating bullets as I don't want Diop starting or getting huge minutes at the 5.

[spectre_]

I get what you're saying WDS, but I think DJ is more valuable. People love potential and DJ didn't do anything to hurt that this past season. Add that to a rookie contract with at least 2 years left and I think he'd be more desirable.

I doubt the Kings do the paired down version either.