OT: Officer Crowley

[Kefa461]

Normally when an Off. comes to your house you are asked can they come inside....not for you to come outside. By law you can be arrested/detained easier outside then inside....ie. drinking and other charges.

[Rocky5000]

The problem is not the officer arriving on the scene. The problem is the officer arresting someone in their own house.

What is this like tag? I'm on base you can't touch me? The police can arrest you in your home.

Yeah, with a warrant.

[Kefa461]

Howsabout them Celtics.........

[sully00]

And in some ways it does fit in with a pattern of police officers being more likely to incarcerate people of color than whites. Perhaps if Gates had been white, Crowley is still frustrated by his uncooperative nature, but restrains from making the questionable arrest. Does that mean it was racially motivated? Not in any conscious and deliberate way. But I have studied enough psychology to know that our perceptions can be very subtly influenced by the race of those with whom we are interacting. Race may have potentially influenced the officers' decision to arrest Gates.

Which is to say, I basically agree with President Obama's assessment of the situation: it may not be a superb example of racism because we don't know what would have happened if Gates were white, but there is a pattern of police treating blacks more harshly than whites. And on top of that, it was not particularly smart to arrest Gates. So, I don't see anything wrong with Obama's answer to that question.

btw completely off topic but I've met Professor Gates.

Perfectly put.

[aboubata]

Let me ask you this, this guy just came from a trip and he only had his Harvard ID??????

And his driver's license, which he also gave to the cop. Duh.

http://www.theroot.com/views/skip-gates-speaks?page=0,0

I don't know where people get some of this from ...

that is not what the police report says http://i.cdn.turner.com/cnn/2009/images ... 98.001.pdf and I beleive that, b/c it is the reason why the officer radioed in Harvard Security. Otherwise he wouldn't have a reason and he wouldn't need more witness to his "racial" act.

I think Officers overreact sometimes, but it seems to me that a Harvard (top schools in the world) professor and the President of the strongest country in the world are toping that.

[Fencer reregistered]

that is not what the police report says

Given the absurd outcome -- guy arrested after police invades his house in a case of mistaken identity -- I'm more likely to believe the guy who was arrested than the cop who did the arresting.

That's PARTICULARLY true because Gates is being accused of fairly abnormal behavior, while the cop is being accused just of behaving normally.

[Fencer reregistered]

http://www.slate.com/id/2223379/

Actually, you do.

Good link. It proves the cop was way out of line, and Gates was completely within his rights.

Thanks.

[ParticleMan]

It may well have had nothing whatsoever to do with race, but I do believe this was an abuse of power. Should Gates have kept his cool? Yes. Was it inappropriate of him to refuse to show his identification initially and then, after showing his identification, act belligerently toward Crowley? Yes. Was he being uncooperative and unhelpful to police officers who in all likelihood were just trying to do their job? Yes. But the fact remains that Gates was arrested from within his own property--after the police had already verified it was his--for talking back to a police officer. This is true no matter whose report you believe. And that really shouldn't happen, ever.

Nailed it.

I blame the cop only because it's his job to keep the peace and diffuse situations. overreacting by arresting an unarmed man in his own house who wasn't threatening anyone, regardless of what he was saying, is definitely not the way to do so.

[sunshinekids99]

The problem is not the officer arriving on the scene. The problem is the officer arresting someone in their own house.

Not if your an a-hole. Crowley claims he warned Gates many times to lower his voice and just talk to him. Then Gates followed Crowley outside still screaming at him. Crowley then showed him his cuffs telling him to knock it off...again Gates continue to be a grade A douche bag. So he got arrested. That pompous ass got what he deserved.

[sunshinekids99]

It may well have had nothing whatsoever to do with race, but I do believe this was an abuse of power. Should Gates have kept his cool? Yes. Was it inappropriate of him to refuse to show his identification initially and then, after showing his identification, act belligerently toward Crowley? Yes. Was he being uncooperative and unhelpful to police officers who in all likelihood were just trying to do their job? Yes. But the fact remains that Gates was arrested from within his own property--after the police had already verified it was his--for talking back to a police officer. This is true no matter whose report you believe. And that really shouldn't happen, ever.

Nailed it.

I blame the cop only because it's his job to keep the peace and diffuse situations. overreacting by arresting an unarmed man in his own house who wasn't threatening anyone, regardless of what he was saying, is definitely not the way to do so.

Go scream is a cops face..see what happens.

[aboubata]

It may well have had nothing whatsoever to do with race, but I do believe this was an abuse of power. Should Gates have kept his cool? Yes. Was it inappropriate of him to refuse to show his identification initially and then, after showing his identification, act belligerently toward Crowley? Yes. Was he being uncooperative and unhelpful to police officers who in all likelihood were just trying to do their job? Yes. But the fact remains that Gates was arrested from within his own property--after the police had already verified it was his--for talking back to a police officer. This is true no matter whose report you believe. And that really shouldn't happen, ever.

Nailed it.

I blame the cop only because it's his job to keep the peace and diffuse situations. overreacting by arresting an unarmed man in his own house who wasn't threatening anyone, regardless of what he was saying, is definitely not the way to do so.

Go scream is a cops face..see what happens.

well, make sure you don't have a gun.

[aboubata]

that is not what the police report says

Given the absurd outcome -- guy arrested after police invades his house in a case of mistaken identity -- I'm more likely to believe the guy who was arrested than the cop who did the arresting.

That's PARTICULARLY true because Gates is being accused of fairly abnormal behavior, while the cop is being accused just of behaving normally.

How did they invade it? there was a brakein, like it or not.

I think we have to wait for any recording to be presented, but I think Gates has a losing case.

So first it was Obama priests attacking, now his friend. Should we have a pool on who is next?

[Kefa461]

There is a higher standard.....Off. are trained to deal with that.....if getting yelled at was the limit, what would you think an Officers day would be filled up with.......yes you got it...paperwork, desk duty and downtime. You have to pick what is arrestable and what can be solved. My question is this .....with all the other Officers on the scene....no other Officers arrested the owner.....nor put on the cuffs....and the Narrative Officers statement is only bolder line consistent with Crowley.

[sully00]

http://www.slate.com/id/2223379/

Actually, you do.

Good link. It proves the cop was way out of line, and Gates was completely within his rights.

Thanks.

It is worse than that if you read the police report. The officer already knew that Gates was not a burglar and was in his own home and on the phone with Harvard asking to contact the chief of police before he even asked for his ID. He could have just left at that point but didn't.

I don't believe either man's account completely. In the end Gates overreacted to being asked to step outside, and then again maybe not, and Crowley when faced with the choice of just leaving the scene or making one he chose to make one and Gates obliged.

[Rocky5000]

The problem is not the officer arriving on the scene. The problem is the officer arresting someone in their own house.

Not if your an a-hole. Crowley claims he warned Gates many times to lower his voice and just talk to him. Then Gates followed Crowley outside still screaming at him. Crowley then showed him his cuffs telling him to knock it off...again Gates continue to be a grade A douche bag. So he got arrested. That pompous ass got what he deserved.

Even if Crowley's story is true, Crowley should have just continued walking. There's no need to threaten the guy with arrest like that, it only escalates the situation. You don't calm an angry man by telling him you're going to take him to jail.

[jfs1000d]

I don't begrudge Crowley, but, the fact of the matter is Gates didn't commit any crime and once that fact became apparent the officer has to leave.

The fact Gates was arrested to me is an important point. Why was he arrested? How the heck does he get taken away despite the fact it was verified as his own home?

Bad job by the police.

Listen, I know police officers, and people who are family members of police officers, are always quick to come down on the side of the public servant. I understand it's a dangerous job.

That has nothing to do with this case.

There is no reason this guy should have been arrested. Perhaps Crowley should have said "good day sir" and left. That's what a professional officer should have done. He would have taken the verbal abuse and went home. Thankless job, I know.

The last thing is, Gates as an african american has encountered a lifetime of racism in its forms the last 40 or something years. That is a component that isn't lost on Obama, or myself. While the officer sees this as just one call and one case, Gates sees it through the prism of his experiences.

I am sorry. The officer shouldn't have arrested him. PERIOD.

[jfs1000d]

It doesn't really matter if Gates is retelling the story in his favor or not. Rodney King may have been all **** up on PCP, but it still doesn't give the police the right to hit him with a batton while he's clearly subdued.

As far as Obama making race the issue, race was the issue in this before Obama answered the reporter's question. He addressed the very real problems of racism and our police force in a general way because that's what this story (whether or not race had anything to do with it) brought to the fore. If people want to pretend race is no longer an issue by quoting a couple of bigots that like to call black people monkeys, fine. But it doesn't make it so.

Gates, not Crowley, put race into the situation. Whites get arrest for similar actions all the time.

When?

[Kefa461]

http://www.slate.com/id/2223379/

Actually, you do.

Good link. It proves the cop was way out of line, and Gates was completely within his rights.

Thanks.

It is worse than that if you read the police report. The officer already knew that Gates was not a burglar and was in his own home and on the phone with Harvard asking to contact the chief of police before he even asked for his ID. He could have just left at that point but didn't.

I don't believe either man's account completely. In the end Gates overreacted to being asked to step outside, and then again maybe not, and Crowley when faced with the choice of just leaving the scene or making one he chose to make one and Gates obliged.

One of the many mistakes was to be.... shall one say baited to come outside.....once outside....He could be detained and processed.

[sweatdog]

If you think individuals of the branch of the government whos job is to protect and serve doesnt deserve basic human respect when hes doing his job, then you will have problems in your life.

Too many cops die each year because they THOUGHT a situation was diffused or they let down their guard. If Gates had cooperated then the cop would have left in an appropriate fashion. If he didnt, THEN Gates had some reason to fly off the handle and pull the race card. Im glad to hear the cop didnt hold Gates hand and coddle him like a child, or raise him up on a platform because of his spiffy Harvard ID. At a possible crime scene why not GTFO of the cops way and let him do his job.

Gates is the civilian, yet he did not behave in a *civil* manner, i.e. to adhere to the norms of polite social intercourse.

I see it this way - kudos to the officers for making an example of a man who thought he could act out of line and get away with it. Any apologies issued from the Cambridge police side are simply to back out of a suddenly racially charged **** storm, and not an admission of guilt.

[sully00]

If you think the branch of the government whos job is to protect and serve doesnt deserve basic human respect when hes doing his job, then you will have problems in your life.

Too many cops die each year because they THOUGHT a situation was diffused or they let down their guard. If Gates had cooperated then the cop would have left in an appropriate fashion. If he didnt, THEN Gates had some reason to fly off the handle and pull the race card. Im glad to hear the cop didnt hold Gates hand and coddle him like a child, or raise him up on a platform because of his spiffy Harvard ID. At the scene of a possible crime scene, GTFO of the cops way and let him do his job.

Gates is the civilian, yet he did not behave in a *civil* manner, i.e. to adhere to the norms of polite social intercourse.

I see it this way - kudos to the officers for making an example of a man who thought he act out of line and get away with it.

This is BS. There is at no point that Officer Crowley felt he was in danger, he knew the man was not a burglar before he even asked for his ID.

Gates overreacted to being asked to step outside as if he was suspect in a crime in his own home. Why didn't Crowley assume it was Gates home and simply ask him if everything is okay? Did he run? No he was on the phone. Lets not get into the "norms of polite behavior."

Especially since when he complied with their request to step outside they arrested him.

The biggest problem Crowley is going to have is getting anyone to believe that he responded with his name and badge number upon Gates request, which is the law. Everyone will have heard Gates repeatedly asking , which Crowley acknowledges. He states that he responded with it repeatedly which is not reasonable, he would have only said it once, which likely means he didn't say it all as Gates states. If he didn't do it and lied about in the police report he is bumming.

It was two men behaving badly until one man abused his power to imprison the other man.