JC Navarro

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Re: JC Navarro 

Post#21 » by KWSN-Men » Sat Jul 11, 2009 2:31 pm

Alyosha12 wrote:And euroleague season MVP and a member of euroleagues first team isn't.

Oh man why do i even bother answering your ridiculous posts i must be more crazy then you are, although that is an impossibility.


Navarro is no superstar. A superstar is a level above what he is at in terms of how good he is at the Euroleague level. Claiming Navarro is a Euroleague superstar is the same thing as claiming Michael Redd is an NBA superstar.

Of course you would have to actually watch European basketball to realize that.
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Re: JC Navarro 

Post#22 » by Alyosha12 » Sat Jul 11, 2009 2:40 pm

KWSN-Men wrote:
Alyosha12 wrote:And euroleague season MVP and a member of euroleagues first team isn't.

Oh man why do i even bother answering your ridiculous posts i must be more crazy then you are, although that is an impossibility.


Navarro is no superstar. A superstar is a level above what he is at in terms of how good he is at the Euroleague level. Claiming Navarro is a Euroleague superstar is the same thing as claiming Michael Redd is an NBA superstar.

Of course you would have to actually watch European basketball to realize that.


Actually claiming JCN is a superstar is like claiming an NBA MVP or a member of NBA's first team is a superstar or that the number 4 scorer in the NBA is a superstar or that like JCN is in the euroleague.

So if you say Navarro is a superstar in the euroleague its like saying LeBron is a superstar in the NBA or that Dirk is an NBA superstar or that Howard is an NBA superstar or that Kobe is an NBA superstar or that Wade is an NBA superstar all tese players are members of NBA's first team etc.

Yet you still continue to bate me with your silly antics. W/e you think JCN is not a superstar in the Euroleague what do i care, me and the rest of basketball-watching Europe know better.
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Re: JC Navarro 

Post#23 » by suckfish » Sat Jul 11, 2009 2:57 pm

What for example separates Trajan Langdon in tier 2 from say Igor Rakocevic in tier 4?

Me don't quite understand your tiers.
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Re: JC Navarro 

Post#24 » by KWSN-Men » Sat Jul 11, 2009 3:03 pm

Alyosha12 wrote:
KWSN-Men wrote:
Alyosha12 wrote:And euroleague season MVP and a member of euroleagues first team isn't.

Oh man why do i even bother answering your ridiculous posts i must be more crazy then you are, although that is an impossibility.


Navarro is no superstar. A superstar is a level above what he is at in terms of how good he is at the Euroleague level. Claiming Navarro is a Euroleague superstar is the same thing as claiming Michael Redd is an NBA superstar.

Of course you would have to actually watch European basketball to realize that.


Actually claiming JCN is a superstar is like claiming an NBA MVP or a member of NBA's first team is a superstar or that the number 4 scorer in the NBA is a superstar or that like JCN is in the euroleague.

So if you say Navarro is a superstar in the euroleague its like saying LeBron is a superstar in the NBA or that Dirk is an NBA superstar or that Howard is an NBA superstar or that Kobe is an NBA superstar or that Wade is an NBA superstar all tese players are members of NBA's first team etc.

Yet you still continue to bate me with your silly antics. W/e you think JCN is not a superstar in the Euroleague what do i care, me and the rest of basketball-watching Europe know better.


Anyone that equates Euroleague individual awards to NBA individual awards knows nothing about the Euroleague and has never watched it.
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Re: JC Navarro 

Post#25 » by KWSN-Men » Sat Jul 11, 2009 3:08 pm

suckfish wrote:What for example separates Trajan Langdon in tier 2 from say Igor Rakocevic in tier 4?


There are two sides of a basketball court. There is not just offense and there is not just defense. Rakocevic does not play very good defense and Langdon does. Also Rakocevic always fails in big games and when his team needs him most. Langdon on the other hand is clutch and comes through in big games.

Rakocevic has been considered one of the 3 best players on his team but failed to win a championship, while Langdon as one of the 3 best players on his teams has won 2 championships. Langdon has been good on CSKA, which has been a much bigger club than TAU for example where Rakocevic had his better years.

Again, one would have to actually watch Euroleague to know this.
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Re: JC Navarro 

Post#26 » by suckfish » Sat Jul 11, 2009 4:21 pm

Rakocevic does not play very good defense and Langdon does.


Yet Rakocevic is an elite scorer. The best players don't necessarily have to be great on both ends of the floor. Yes Rakocevic isn't a great defender, but he is a great scorer. Langdon is a mediocre one dimensional scorer, and a good defender. You could make arguments for both, but I don't think one is two tiers above the other simply because he plays better defense and scores much much less. Both are top players, I just can't understand how you say Langdon is that much closer to being a Euroleague 'superstar' than guys like Navarro and Rakocevic. It's crazy IMO.
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Re: JC Navarro 

Post#27 » by suckfish » Sat Jul 11, 2009 4:23 pm

Again, one would have to actually watch Euroleague to know this.


As you keep saying to everyone who disagrees with you in the slightest. If none of us watch Euroleague ball, then why bother keep coming here to discuss it with the people on this forum?

:-?
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Re: JC Navarro 

Post#28 » by KWSN-Men » Sat Jul 11, 2009 4:32 pm

suckfish wrote:
Rakocevic does not play very good defense and Langdon does.


Yet Rakocevic is an elite scorer. The best players don't necessarily have to be great on both ends of the floor. Yes Rakocevic isn't a great defender, but he is a great scorer. Langdon is a mediocre one dimensional scorer, and a good defender. You could make arguments for both, but I don't think one is two tiers above the other simply because he plays better defense and scores much much less. Both are top players, I just can't understand how you say Langdon is that much closer to being a Euroleague 'superstar' than guys like Navarro and Rakocevic. It's crazy IMO.


You are way off. Rakocevic is not an "elite scorer". Rakocevic is a volume shooter/scorer. Rakocevic is the Euroleague's version of Ben Gordon, except where Gordon is clutch, Rakocevic is a choker. There are many better offensive players in the Euroleague than Rakocevic. This is like the arguments when people said Drew Nicholas was the best offensive player in Europe because on a second tier team he could lead the league in scoring. Well on a first tier team he averaged like 8 points a game.

In a second tier team Nicholas or Rakocevic can lead the league in scoring. On a first tier team it would never happen. Rakocevic gets maybe 10 points a game on a team like CKSA or Panathinaikos. He is far from being an "elite scorer". Also Langdon is not a "one dimensional scorer". Welcome to 2009 and not 1999. There is not a basketball world where players stay magically forever like they are from the last time they are on an NBA basketball court. Langdon can create his own shot off the catch and also off the dribble. He's also a better shooter and a more consistent shooter than Rakocevic.

Of course you can't see it, you have obviously never seen a Euroleague game. And I never said anything about Langdon being "that much closer to a superstar than Navarro". I just said he was a bit closer and better because he plays defense and also he's a more valuable player.

Crazy how winning games is considered "crazy". Navarro is a streaky chucker that plays no D. Rakocevic is a streaky volume shooter that plays D but not with good success. Langdon is definitely the better player of those 3.
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Re: JC Navarro 

Post#29 » by KWSN-Men » Sat Jul 11, 2009 4:38 pm

suckfish wrote:
Again, one would have to actually watch Euroleague to know this.


As you keep saying to everyone who disagrees with you in the slightest. If none of us watch Euroleague ball, then why bother keep coming here to discuss it with the people on this forum?

:-?


You are saying Rakocevic is an "elite scorer" and Langdon is a "one dimensional scorer". Therefore you have never watched a Euroleague game.
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Re: JC Navarro 

Post#30 » by suckfish » Sat Jul 11, 2009 5:19 pm

Rakocevic leads the Euroleague in scoring (as well as the ACB), and at the same time, is one of the most efficient scorers in the league. He has one of the best scoring averages in the Euroleague this decade and is a two time scoring champion.

If he isn't an elite scorer, then I don't know what or who is.

And I never said anything about Langdon being "that much closer to a superstar than Navarro".


Fine, but you said it about Rakocevic by putting him two tiers below Langdon.

You keep throwing personal insults around though, it makes you look pretty cool. 8-)
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Re: JC Navarro 

Post#31 » by KWSN-Men » Sun Jul 12, 2009 9:20 am

suckfish wrote:Rakocevic leads the Euroleague in scoring (as well as the ACB), and at the same time, is one of the most efficient scorers in the league. He has one of the best scoring averages in the Euroleague this decade and is a two time scoring champion.

If he isn't an elite scorer, then I don't know what or who is.

And I never said anything about Langdon being "that much closer to a superstar than Navarro".


Fine, but you said it about Rakocevic by putting him two tiers below Langdon.

You keep throwing personal insults around though, it makes you look pretty cool. 8-)


You don't know what an elite scorer is. You obviously don't watch the Euroleague. I already explained to you that Rakocevic would average no more than probably 10 points a game on a top level European club. Put him on a club like Panathinaikos or CSKA and he would not even be one of the main scoring options. Strange how that makes him "an elite scorer in Europe".

I even explained to you how Drew Nicholas led the Euroleague in scoring, he also led the Italian League in scoring. On Panathinaikos he averaged 8 points a game. Why? Because he is not an "elite scorer" just like Rakocevic is not either. Players like that can lead big domestic leagues or the Euroleague in scoring if they don't play on a top level club.

So based on your logic then, the biggest Euroleague clubs have like a 6th to 8th offensive option on the team, all those players are being what you would refer to as an "elite scorer". It makes no sense at all and is completely wrong. Sani Becirovic goes from averaging 6.8 points per game last year with Panathinaikos to 14.8 this year with Lottomatica Roma.

I guess based on your concept of how the game works in the Euroleague Becirovic magically became 2-3 times a better scorer over one off season. Of course, the simple fact is that the best offensive player on a mid level Euroleague club like Roma, which was Becirovic, would be nothing more than a minor bench role player on a big Euroleague club.

You still don't grasp it?

Drew Nicholas averaged 18.5 in the Euroleague with Benetton and 16.5 in the Euroleague with Efes. Then he goes to Panathinaikos and averaged 8.3 a game.

If you actually watched Euroleague games you would understand that averaging 10-12 points on a club like CSKA, like Langdon does, is much harder to do and is more impressive than the numbers Rakocevic had with TAU. Of course you would also have to actually watch NBA games to know that Mike D'Antoni's teams will generally have inflated offensive stats as compared to the rest of the NBA. But according to your concept of how the Euroleague scoring stats are, they are all automatically equal and uniform across the board.

Therefore, Rakocevic, who would not be a top 3 offensive option in a big Eurolegaue club is "an elite scorer in the Euroleague".
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Re: JC Navarro 

Post#32 » by Alyosha12 » Sun Jul 12, 2009 9:54 am

KWSN-Men wrote:
suckfish wrote:Rakocevic leads the Euroleague in scoring (as well as the ACB), and at the same time, is one of the most efficient scorers in the league. He has one of the best scoring averages in the Euroleague this decade and is a two time scoring champion.

If he isn't an elite scorer, then I don't know what or who is.

And I never said anything about Langdon being "that much closer to a superstar than Navarro".


Fine, but you said it about Rakocevic by putting him two tiers below Langdon.

You keep throwing personal insults around though, it makes you look pretty cool. 8-)


You don't know what an elite scorer is. You obviously don't watch the Euroleague. I already explained to you that Rakocevic would average no more than probably 10 points a game on a top level European club. Put him on a club like Panathinaikos or CSKA and he would not even be one of the main scoring options. Strange how that makes him "an elite scorer in Europe".

I even explained to you how Drew Nicholas led the Euroleague in scoring, he also led the Italian League in scoring. On Panathinaikos he averaged 8 points a game. Why? Because he is not an "elite scorer" just like Rakocevic is not either. Players like that can lead big domestic leagues or the Euroleague in scoring if they don't play on a top level club.

So based on your logic then, the biggest Euroleague clubs have like a 6th to 8th offensive option on the team, all those players are being what you would refer to as an "elite scorer". It makes no sense at all and is completely wrong. Sani Becirovic goes from averaging 6.8 points per game last year with Panathinaikos to 14.8 this year with Lottomatica Roma.

I guess based on your concept of how the game works in the Euroleague Becirovic magically became 2-3 times a better scorer over one off season. Of course, the simple fact is that the best offensive player on a mid level Euroleague club like Roma, which was Becirovic, would be nothing more than a minor bench role player on a big Euroleague club.

You still don't grasp it?

Drew Nicholas averaged 18.5 in the Euroleague with Benetton and 16.5 in the Euroleague with Efes. Then he goes to Panathinaikos and averaged 8.3 a game.

If you actually watched Euroleague games you would understand that averaging 10-12 points on a club like CSKA, like Langdon does, is much harder to do and is more impressive than the numbers Rakocevic had with TAU. Of course you would also have to actually watch NBA games to know that Mike D'Antoni's teams will generally have inflated offensive stats as compared to the rest of the NBA. But according to your concept of how the Euroleague scoring stats are, they are all automatically equal and uniform across the board.

Therefore, Rakocevic, who would not be a top 3 offensive option in a big Eurolegaue club is "an elite scorer in the Euroleague".


So let me get this straight Tau Ceramica is not a top level team in your fawked up head? A team that has been to the Final Four 5 times in the past 6 years is not a top level team? Tau is on the same level as Roma and Benetton in your little brain?

Ok gotcha, no need to answer those were all rhetorical questions .
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Re: JC Navarro 

Post#33 » by suckfish » Sun Jul 12, 2009 9:59 am

I retire.
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Re: JC Navarro 

Post#34 » by KWSN-Men » Sun Jul 12, 2009 10:38 am

Alyosha12 wrote:So let me get this straight Tau Ceramica is not a top level team in your fawked up head? A team that has been to the Final Four 5 times in the past 6 years is not a top level team? Tau is on the same level as Roma and Benetton in your little brain?

Ok gotcha, no need to answer those were all rhetorical questions .


Anyone that actually watches the Euroleague knows that a top level tier Euroleague team is Panathinaikos or CSKA. Tau is in the second tier group. I never said anyting about TAU being grouped with Benetton and Roma, you made that up on your own. I doubt if you even know who these players are or what these teams are.
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Re: JC Navarro 

Post#35 » by Alyosha12 » Sun Jul 12, 2009 11:24 am

KWSN-Men wrote:
Alyosha12 wrote:So let me get this straight Tau Ceramica is not a top level team in your fawked up head? A team that has been to the Final Four 5 times in the past 6 years is not a top level team? Tau is on the same level as Roma and Benetton in your little brain?

Ok gotcha, no need to answer those were all rhetorical questions .


Anyone that actually watches the Euroleague knows that a top level tier Euroleague team is Panathinaikos or CSKA. Tau is in the second tier group. I never said anyting about TAU being grouped with Benetton and Roma, you made that up on your own. I doubt if you even know who these players are or what these teams are.


I said it was a rhetorical question duuuh.
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Re: JC Navarro 

Post#36 » by diogo_pt » Thu Jul 16, 2009 5:03 pm

calm down guys...it's just our opinions
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Re: JC Navarro 

Post#37 » by koko » Sun Jul 19, 2009 8:33 am

I can see there are teams that have won a lot in all their history and teams winning things now, or being a top team in recent years.

Maybe you can argue about that but some things written in this thread have hurt my eyes.

Navarro definitely is a superstar in Europe, but if you say that you have to say here the stars are not what they are in the NBA also. This a more team orientated basketball so the individuals don't bright as in the NBA.
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Re: JC Navarro 

Post#38 » by dan520 » Fri Jul 24, 2009 8:04 pm

just becus u can ball in europe doesnt mean u can ball in nba
What is basketball.....basketball is life.
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Re: JC Navarro 

Post#39 » by KWSN-Men » Fri Jul 24, 2009 9:35 pm

dan520 wrote:just becus u can ball in europe doesnt mean u can ball in nba


Just because you can ball in the NBA does not mean you can ball in the Euroleague. Numerous cases.
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Re: JC Navarro 

Post#40 » by NetsForce » Fri Jul 24, 2009 11:32 pm

You could take any NBA star put them on a European league and they'd EASILY be the best player on their respective team.

You can not take a single European "star" put them on a NBA team and say the same.

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