Pacers holding out for Allen and Gidden....

[Rocky5000]

^Right and Daniels has chronic injuries, like the back problems, whereas TA seems to have freak injuries.
Remember in a S&T situation, you don't really want to be making a fair trade. It should be mainly about salary concerns. From Indiana's perspective, getting anything in return is a plus, because we're going to sign Daniels with the BAE anyways.

I still don't have a very good read on Giddens, he does seem to be a bit like TA with the driving instinct, but I wasn't really impressed with his summer league. He did play better than Pruitt and Walker though.

[Rocky5000]

You didn't make a point, you compared a superstar to a bench player. Of course, the rate for elite players is higher - it's supply and demand. Scal and KG are so far apart that they are different products. It's like me giving you a dollars per horsepower comparison of compact sedans, and you bringing up the bugatti veyron. "Haha, you better trade in your ferrari for a chevy cobalt!"

Scal is tremendously overpaid, and not a good value for a bench player.

I'm pretty sure that Zin was being sarcastic when he made that comment.

P.S. First post!

I hope so. Welcome Aboard.

[Zin5]

You didn't make a point, you compared a superstar to a bench player. Of course, the rate for elite players is higher - it's supply and demand. Scal and KG are so far apart that they are different products. It's like me giving you a dollars per horsepower comparison of compact sedans, and you bringing up the bugatti veyron. "Haha, you better trade in your ferrari for a chevy cobalt!"

Scal is tremendously overpaid, and not a good value for a bench player.

I was exclusively pointing out that pointing out a $/PPG stat, which you did to try to make an argument against Scal, is probably the most pointless when evaluating a player by using some sarcasm. In no way was I comparing the two.

Also, at least you know a bit about cars, but that only works for cars. NBA players are all subject to the same stats when evaluating them. PER, TS%, the more generic stats, a bunch of others, etc. Cars you can't even start to do something like $/HP because just because a car even has more horsepower doesn't mean it's necessarily a better car, not just in a straight line dependent on weight either. I'd much rather have an M3 (like I intend to) than some overpowered muscle car that can't take a turn.

[Celts17Pride]

Goodbye Tony Allen don't let the door hit you on the way out.

[Rocky5000]

You didn't make a point, you compared a superstar to a bench player. Of course, the rate for elite players is higher - it's supply and demand. Scal and KG are so far apart that they are different products. It's like me giving you a dollars per horsepower comparison of compact sedans, and you bringing up the bugatti veyron. "Haha, you better trade in your ferrari for a chevy cobalt!"

Scal is tremendously overpaid, and not a good value for a bench player.

I was exclusively pointing out that pointing out a $/PPG stat, which you did to try to make an argument against Scal, is probably the most pointless when evaluating a player by using some sarcasm. In no way was I comparing the two.

Also, at least you know a bit about cars, but that only works for cars. NBA players are all subject to the same stats when evaluating them. PER, TS%, the more generic stats, a bunch of others, etc. Cars you can't even start to do something like $/HP because just because a car even has more horsepower doesn't mean it's necessarily a better car, not just in a straight line dependent on weight either. I'd much rather have an M3 (like I intend to) than some overpowered muscle car that can't take a turn.

It is not useless, it's a good way of gauging the value of similar players. Just because $/PPG can't be used to compare Scal and KG, doesn't mean it's useless.

[count55]

^Right and Daniels has chronic injuries, like the back problems, whereas TA seems to have freak injuries.
Remember in a S&T situation, you don't really want to be making a fair trade. It should be mainly about salary concerns. From Indiana's perspective, getting anything in return is a plus, because we're going to sign Daniels with the BAE anyways.

I still don't have a very good read on Giddens, he does seem to be a bit like TA with the driving instinct, but I wasn't really impressed with his summer league. He did play better than Pruitt and Walker though.

Actually, from Indiana's perspective, they should be looking for a premium. An S&T with Daniels will add salary (to Indiana), while helping out an opponent with their financial issues. Bird is thinking that if he doesn't get exactly what he wants, then he can fill those holes from different areas, probably cheaper.

[theman]

I want to keep TA.

Get rid of Scal, he's useless now that we have Sheed. Not that he had much use before. Remember that according to wages of wins, Brian Scalabrine has been the worst celtic since 1977. http://www.wagesofwins.com/Boston77-09.html Dead last out of 223 players, one spot shy of the great Greg Kite. I don't think wages of wins are perfect, but the sum of Scal's contributions on the court, however you look at it, has been pathetic.
CBS has him 337 out of 424 players in the NBA. Sounds better than expected, until you realize that most of the guys he beat out were either injured or rookies getting no playing time. http://www.cbssports.com/nba/playerrank ... _rows=9999

He also gets paid about a million dollars for each point he averages. There is no spot for Brian Scalabrine in the NBA.

Edit: One more thing, even if you're twisted enough to think Scal has a spot in the NBA, he's basically a ticking time bomb with those concussions he's had.

So why would Indiana do the deal? For the privilige of paying Scal for the season? What is the benefit to the Pacers in taking Scal instead of Allen? Do you think Giddens is so great that the Pacers would pay an extra $3 million in salary just to get Giddens. They can get a similar player for a second round pick.

Daniels is a free agent. Indiana is not dumping salary. They are helping the Celtics by doing a S&T so they need to get something of VALUE in return.

I don't understand the logic of "We should trade this player because they are horrible". What do you think you are going to get for that horrible player?

[NEM]

i was going to ask, why hasnt quise been signed yet, but i guess a s&t is being worked on

[Celtics_85]

Why would Indy want TA when they just signed D. Jones from Denver? I could see them being interested in Walker or Giddens who are young and have potential, but I don't see Ainge giving up TA and one of them to get Daniels because it puts our depth thin. I think if a deal gets done it is Scal and one of Walker/Giddens for Daniels, and we may send some cash.

[GuyClinch]

It is not useless, it's a good way of gauging the value of similar players. Just because $/PPG can't be used to compare Scal and KG, doesn't mean it's useless.

Stat's that are almost entirely controlled by coaches are pretty useless. TA could score 15ppg if he played 40+ minutes. However if he played 0 - he would score zero. He is still the same player either way..

The best you can say about it is that it shows Scal isn't valued that highly by the TEAM.

Pete

[joneb]

Some random thoughts on the topic:

-Count me as being reluctant to part with Giddens as well. I've always thought he had the potential to be a poor man's Andre Igoudala. It's a long season, and it would be great to have Gidden's young legs to throw at an opponent's two guard to tire him down.

-Losing both TA and Giddens would leave us really thin in terms of a player that could fit the above role. There's quite a bit of overlap between TA's and Giddens' games, so losing both would deprive us of a young physical defender at the wing. Marquis Daniels can guard wings, but both Giddens and TA are stronger and more physical than Daniels, IMO.

-If we do complete a sign and trade, who does the LLE go to? I'd be more willing to part with Giddens if we use the LLE for Marbury.

-I think it would be smart to enter the season with Scal on the roster. Having an extra big on the roster would be a good idea until we can be confident that KG's knee is sound. Not only that, but if we waited until the trade deadline, Scal's expiring contract becomes even more valuable. And remember that next year's free agent class is the jackpot that many teams are gearing towards.

[CelticFaninLBC]

Why would Indy want TA when they just signed D. Jones from Denver? I could see them being interested in Walker or Giddens who are young and have potential, but I don't see Ainge giving up TA and one of them to get Daniels because it puts our depth thin. I think if a deal gets done it is Scal and one of Walker/Giddens for Daniels, and we may send some cash.

TA has shown potential in the past, so maybe he finally pulls his head out his rear, with a new team?? But they seem to mainly want a young player like Giddens, but I have a feeling they'll settle for a 2nd round pick or two..

[count55]

Why would Indy want TA when they just signed D. Jones from Denver? I could see them being interested in Walker or Giddens who are young and have potential, but I don't see Ainge giving up TA and one of them to get Daniels because it puts our depth thin. I think if a deal gets done it is Scal and one of Walker/Giddens for Daniels, and we may send some cash.

Until Dunleavy comes back, we only have Rush, Granger, and Jones at the wing. Allen could provide stop gap depth until Junior is available.

We have no use, or interest in Scalabrine.

[sunshinekids99]

I actually think Scal fits the Pacers system much better. He's a good passer that can knock down an open three. Plus he's all hustle on D. I'd much rather trade TA anyways so that really works for me.

[Jammer]

7 Celtics are not available for Sign & Trades; last years starters, Rasheed Wallace
and Eddie House (House gets to approve any trades (because he would lose
his Bird rights), and since he just exercised a player option, he stays).

Davis is desired back.

Of the 6 players in play, Indy's roster is full, and neither Scal, Tony, Pruitt, Billy Walker or
Justin Ray Giddens makes any sense in Indiana.
Lester Hudson as a third point guard is probably the best fit given Indiana's depth chart.

What does make sense is Indiana re-routing some Celtics for whatever they can get.

I still say Memphis is the best location for Tony Allen or Pruitt.

But, what would Memphis give up? With the qualifying offer withdrawn from
Hakeem Warrick, Memphis' depth chart looks like (realize OJ Mayo is pleading with Memphis
to convert him from a SG to a PG in the near term).

C: Marc Gasol / Hasheem Thabeet / Hammad Haddadi
PF: Zach Randolph / Darrell Arthur
SF: Rudy Gay / Marco Jaric / DeMarre Carroll
SG: OJ Mayo /
PG: Mike Conley

with Hakeem Warrick a UFA and Sam Young, an unsigned #36 pick whose real NBA position is ??

Memphis owes the Lakers their 2010 2nd Round pick, but owns the Lakers 2010 1rst Round pick.

If Tony and Pruitt are re-routed to Memphis, Memphis would have to send something to Indiana
that Indiana values. I think that would have to be picks or cash, as Indiana doesn't need anyone
that Memphis would be willing to give up.

This trade makes a lot of sense for Memphis, because Tony Allen would make an excellent backcourt partner with OJ Mayo with OJ playing point. It also would give Memphis two excellent defensive players, much better than any guards on the current Memphis roster.

If Memphis doesn't want to tie up next summer's cap space with a multi-year deal with Hakeem Warrick, they might take on Scalabrine for his one remaining year. But in the end, Memphis would have to send something to Indiana for Tony Allen, Pruitt or whatever. And I think that that means cash or a future pick.

This is the trade that makes sense for all 3 teams. Unfortunately, Memphis has made a professional habit of having bad chemistry, no defensive ability players for about 13 years now. So, when presented the opportunity to get someone with quicks and defense (Tony was the Celtics best straight up defender last year, Pruitt was like 3rd); Memphis won't have a clue how much these guys would help them.

[indy_dave00]

The Pacers have no room Scalabrine or his 3.4 mil contract. They signed Soloman Jones yesterday 2 years at the minimum, that makes 6 pf/c in Indy : Murphy, Foster, Hibbert, Hansbrough , McRoberts and S.Jones not to mention Danny Granger plays there when they go small.

Bird has signed 3 free agents this off season Dahntey Jones, Earl Watson and Solo Jones all known more for their defense than offense. This team was horrible defensively last season.

Buying out Jamaal Tinsley gave the Pacers 2 mil in spending plus a roster spot.

The Pacers are trying to build around young players thats where a Bill Walker or J R Giddens would fit in , The Pacers currently only have 3 wing players Granger , Rush , and D.Jones until probably the first of the year when Dunleavy comes back. So they need a wing and in going with Bird's signings so far defense is a must as such Tony Allen and Giddens or Walker seems the logical fit in any trade.

I discount any intrest in Ryan Hollins following the Solo Jones signing.

With that said it appears Bird will pass on the sign and trade for Daniels if he doesn't get what he wants. Talk is Indy native Rodney Carney or Luther Head are on the back burner if the Daniels trade is not made.