Sessions Update:Ramon signs T-Wolves OS (page 310 update)

[drew881]

Although I do agree he very well may beat out BJ, his QO if far too low to take. Almost better off going overseas for a year or two.

Never thought about this, but he could go over to Europe and try to blow it up for one year, and then come back when so many teams have cap room. He would still be restricted, but he will still get a higher offer if he plays anywhere near half decent ball. Plus, I would assume he makes equal or more money with a Euro team this year than with the Bucks, Knicks or Clippers.

[Joana]

Still no offer, uh? I'm on holidays and every time I check this Sessions is a little less valuable.

I don't think Europe is an option for Sessions. Guards without a jump-shot can have a really hard time here.

[europa]

Still no offer, uh? I'm on holidays and every time I check this Sessions is a little less valuable.

I don't think Europe is an option for Sessions. Guards without a jump-shot can have a really hard time here.

I don't think it is either. I think it'll come down to the Knicks (who the hell knows at this point), the Bucks or the QO. I think the Bucks are sitting in great shape here. His market value is incredibly low. His salary now appears to be in the backup range which means you're paying intelligently for a backup or getting an incredible bargain for a starter.

[Wise1]

Still no offer, uh? I'm on holidays and every time I check this Sessions is a little less valuable.

I don't think Europe is an option for Sessions. Guards without a jump-shot can have a really hard time here

My Bosnian friend Sigra agrees with you. The Bucks have high ground over Sessions. He'd be fortunate to get Ersan's deal at this point.

[europa]

Still no offer, uh? I'm on holidays and every time I check this Sessions is a little less valuable.

I don't think Europe is an option for Sessions. Guards without a jump-shot can have a really hard time here

My Bosnian friend Sigra agrees with you. The Bucks have high ground over Sessions. He'd be fortunate to get Ersan's deal at this point.

I think he gets at least $3M a year from either another team, the Bucks or he takes the QO.

[GrandAdmiralDan]

The Bucks need to try and get Sessions signed NOW before the market for him heats up again. Continuing to just keep waiting for a price to drop has a good deal of risk of backfiring. It is not the case that the Bucks can only benefit by continuing to wait.

All that would have to happen would be for one of these other teams to change their mind, or for a team (perhaps not even one giving much thought to Sessions currently) having some offseason plan of theirs go awry or having a trade suddenly be a viable option for them, and that trade might leave them with a different looking roster that they all of a sudden would be very interested in adding Sessions to.

And there is always the risk that someone loses a PG to injury and decide that they would like to bring in Sessions. For example, Tony Parker ends up with a season ending injury in the next week or two (blows out a knee working out, or ruptures something in his back while trying some freaky sex thing with Eva Longoria, etc.). Then the Spurs get a DPE which in that case would be the equivalent of the MLE. Would they just stand pat and wait til Parker comes back in 10-11? Nope. They've got to go for it while they still have Duncan. I'm confident they'd throw the entire DPE at Sessions.
Are any one of those things individually at all likely?
Not really.
But considering every possible thing that might occur, it's not worth the risk, compared to the possible benefit.

Of course, if you aren't really interested much in retaining Sessions, I guess that isn't a risk for you. But if you would like to retain Sessions, especially at a bargain price, you don't wait any longer. You try to get Sessions signed ASAP before things change again. And it is possible that the market for Sessions ALREADY isn't even as dry as some are indicating. It's certainly possible. But we could also wake up the next day to find out that Sessions just signed a full MLE offer sheet. Anyone who thinks there isn't a risk of that still is not being realistic, IMO.

What we stand to lose outweighs what we stand to gain, so we need to act now, if possible. Maybe we won't be able to come to an agreement with Sessions, but we need to give it a try and be willing to offer reasonable money.

[andonewheel]

That's not necessarily true. If the market for Ramon is as terrible as it appears to be (I mean, seriously, he can't get what Jarrett F. Jack got?), I wouldn't be shocked if he took the QO, beat Jennings like a drum during training camp, and then left the Bucks ASAP next summer. That would be a disaster when he is there for the taking with a reasonable offer right now.

As has been said before, the QO is a terrible option for him, and Europe is even worse. He hasn't made enough NBA money yet to be financially secure, so he HAS to get paid now.

His QO is not worth taking because it's so low. He's gonna want a multi-million dollar deal that gives him financial security for life. One year for super-cheap with no long-term guarantee would be catastrophic if he got injured or if Skiles got fed up with him and gave Jennings all the minutes.

Europe is totally out of the question. If he goes to Europe, what do you think the market will be like when he returns? No matter how good he did in Europe, upon returning he'd be a less popular prospect than he is now. He needs to be in the NBA and run an NBA offense, defending NBA PGs. A short-term deal with Europe has the same risks of injury or a lack of minutes that he would have with the QO, and probably not for too much more money.

Being a RFA is killing Ramon's value. The lower his value sinks, the more likely the Bucks are to match. As it becomes more likely the Bucks will match, other teams get scared away from having their money tied up pointlessly, and Ramon's value gets even lower. I understand some fans want Ramon to get a good contract and be rewarded for his play. I don't really care what he gets paid, as long as he is still a Buck. The cheaper he comes, and the more overall financial flexibility we retain, the happier I will be.

[xTitan]

Still no offer, uh? I'm on holidays and every time I check this Sessions is a little less valuable.

I don't think Europe is an option for Sessions. Guards without a jump-shot can have a really hard time here.

Jennings played in Europe......so I do get your point, but it all comes down to the $$$ and only 1 team has to believe.

[Bucksfans1and2]

Respectfully to GAD, who is one of the most informed posters here, the longer negotiations go, the better for the buyer. In this case, the Bucks. A seller is presumed to have marketed their product to the limited market place. Everyone in the league knows what Sessions has to offer. I agree that a time will come to buy, particularly in a situation like this where the Bucks want Ramon to be reasonably happy and save some face. Hammond has done a good job playing this one just right, I have faith he will play it right to the end.

[camillepd]

I wonder if Milwaukee would be interested in a S/T David Lee for Sessions plus a pick? That seems like a fair deal.

[trwi7]

I wonder if Milwaukee would be interested in a S/T David Lee for Sessions plus a pick? That seems like a fair deal.

There's no way in hell we'd give up a pick. Many of us don't even like a Sessions for Lee sign and trade with fillers.

[LUKE23]

I wonder if Milwaukee would be interested in a S/T David Lee for Sessions plus a pick? That seems like a fair deal.

LOL, no.

That would be giving up Sessions + a lottery PF that is better than Lee for Lee (while also adding some salary for next year).

[Bernman]

Excellent post, GAD. Couldn't agree more with every point you made.

Another example of the type of development that could occur by waiting until too late in the offseason to make a move, could be Andre Miller departing Philly without any compensation for the Sixers, forcing them to transfer to plan B's. An S&T with Hinrich was bandied about, but now they're at the point where they'd have to give up something of value they were going to carry into next season in a trade for a viable option at PG, and I'm not sure they're willing to do that in win-now mode. It may be a more palatable option to look for a point guard for "free" via free agency. All that's available anymore are Sessions, Felton, and Tinsley?!?! First, Tinsley hasn't played for a year and half and even when he did he was only borderline as a starter. Interest in him comes across as a ploy to drive the price down with real viable options at point guard. Second, the Bobcats are sending STRONG signals that they're going to match everything within reason to retain Felton. That would leave Magic Sessions as the only viable starting point guard on the market. So in time, the market for a point guard could become extremely strong. More teams in need than there are options anymore. And a new team who hasn't been in the conversation to this point, like Philly, could swoop in and offer Sessions a 3yr/20-21 million dollar contract.

Also, like you said, what people are perceiving as the market drying up, could be a misconception of the situation. The Knicks' interest waning a bit in the time being could be as a result of the necessity to see what transpires with Lee. Because if they end up justifying re-signing him, or can work out an attractive S&T, which causes significant salary to be incoming, a Sessions signing could put them so far over the luxury tax, even Dolan couldn't justify it during a season where there's no chance in hell they'll contend. But if Lee signs an offer sheet far above what they're willing too spend, contract talks with Ramon heat up again.

The Bucks should move quickly right now if they truly desire to retain Sessions at a price below the MLE. We won't find out how well Hammond handled Ramon's situation until it's resolved.

[europa]

The Sixers want a veteran PG. If they can't get one, they reportedly are prepared to go with Lou Williams as the starting PG ahead of Holiday.

I agree with GAD and have also said I'd like to see Hammond try to get this deal done now. But I also believe that if a team really wanted Sessions for the ML, they would've made an offer by now. If a team comes in for well under the ML, then the Bucks are in great shape to match it. So while I would like to see this resolved, I'm not concerned at the present time that waiting is going to put the Bucks in danger of losing Sessions. I think the market has pretty much evaporated for him and his chances to land a ML deal are close to being gone.

[drew881]

Does anyone else here NOT like the idea of the QO? Sure if Sessions signed a QO for cheap, the Bucks save a ton of money this year, but he no longer is a future asset for us. I'd prefer signing him to a 3-4 year deal at 4-5 million per, because then if he pans out, he has massive trade value being a good player on a really cheap deal. Or is simply a good value if we keep him.

If we extend a QO and he plays for that, I doubt there is any chance he re-signs in the offseason, when so many teams will have cap room, and only few will actually land the big fee agents. We would be limited to riding out his play for one year, or trying to trade him as a rental player for another team.

[Bernman]

The Sixers want a veteran PG. If they can't get one, they reportedly are prepared to go with Lou Williams as the starting PG ahead of Holiday.

Even if it's true that the Sixers prefer a veteran point guard, it's not like they'd opt for Anthony Johnson (random name I threw out there as an example, doesn't matter if he's available) over Ramon Sessions. Having the attribute of being a veteran needs to be weighed against the talent a player possesses. Louis Williams would be a joke of a starting point guard, especially with their team composition. There's no Lebron, Roy, or Wade on the Sixers. They need a 1 who can run their team and maximize their athletes. Williams is a 6th man. I'll believe the Sixers are that stupid when I see it.

Anyways, that was just one example. There are other teams with needs at the position, and issues could arise as the offseason goes on, like GAD described.

But I also believe that if a team really wanted Sessions for the ML, they would've made an offer by now. If a team comes in for well under the ML, then the Bucks are in great shape to match it. So while I would like to see this resolved, I'm not concerned at the present time that waiting is going to put the Bucks in danger of losing Sessions. I think the market has pretty much evaporated for him and his chances to land a ML deal are close to being gone.

That's just a lot of I thinks and I believes without any real support.

[europa]

As far as the Sixers, all of the reports we've gotten indicate they want a veteran PG. We saw the same thing with the Blazers. They didn't look at Sessions because they wanted a veteran. Whether we think Sessions is someone a team should pursue is irrelevant. It's what the team wants to do. And at this time, there are no indications the Sixers are interested in Sessions. If they were, I think they would have expressed interest by now. More importantly, I think when they drafted Holiday, they secured their PG of the future. That's why they're targeting a veteran - so they have a stopgap starter until Holiday is ready.

As far as Sessions and the ML, you're correct, that is my opinion. But it's supported by the reports we've received. The Knicks have gone from offering a full ML, to short of the full ML to now maybe offering him considerably less than the ML. And that's assuming the reports from Aldridge and Stein are wrong and they will even make Sessions an offer. The only other team considering Sessions are the Clips and Sessions reportedly isn't as interested in them as he was before.

Right now, there is considerable evidence that would lead us to believe Sessions will not receive a ML offer from any team. That bodes well for the Bucks. If the market trends the way it currently is for him, Sessions will only have the Bucks to deal with. And that obviously benefits Milwaukee.

[Bernman]

As far as the Sixers, all of the reports we've gotten indicate they want a veteran PG. We saw the same thing with the Blazers. They didn't look at Sessions because they wanted a veteran. Whether we think Sessions is someone a team should pursue is irrelevant. It's what the team wants to do. And at this time, there are no indications the Sixers are interested in Sessions. If they were, I think they would have expressed interest by now. More importantly, I think when they drafted Holiday, they secured their PG of the future. That's why they're targeting a veteran - so they have a stopgap starter until Holiday is ready.

But who is out on the market that's a veteran, outside of Jamaal Tinsley? Their bridge to Hinrich was demolished when they lost Miller for nothing, now they'll have to relinquish assets in a trade. Reports are Brand is on the block, which could have been easily predicted, but they'll only get a player on an extremely bad contract in return. Maybe B-Diddy, but then of course the Ships would have a gaping need, and impetus to invest to invest the full MLE to Ramon. Wouldn't it be ironic if one year later, Diddy and Brand were traded for each other, after reneging on the promise to join forces?

As far as Sessions and the ML, you're correct, that is my opinion. But it's supported by the reports we've received.

You mean Hahn and Hunt weighing in on their opinion of what contract they'd personally tender Magic? That's where the title "Knicks could offer half of the MLE" derives from, Alan Hahn laying out his preferred contract structure.

[europa]

I'm talking about all of the reports we've received. From ESPN, from David Aldridge, from the Knicks media. I'm less inclined to trust Woelfel at this point because it seems to me he's getting all of his info from Wells, who badly needs to establish a market for his client. And nearly all of Woelfel's reports so far about Sessions have not come to fruition. As far as Hunt, we all know the J/S RARELY (if ever) speculates on contract numbers without firsthand info from the Bucks. Given that, it's safe to say $3M a year is a figure Hunt got from the Bucks. Whether the Bucks top it as several other reports have said they will if need be is the question.

And again with the Sixers, as I've said the reports are if they don't sign a veteran, they'll go with Lou Williams as the starting PG. This is one of those reports, from ESPN:

"His departure means the Sixers will likely turn to fourth-year guard Lou Williams to run the point. They made UCLA's Jrue Holiday their first-round pick and hope he can develop into their point guard of the future."

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=4354227

[WEFFPIM]

Half the MLE?

This team better match if that comes to fruition