Tom Moore 2.0

UptownPhilly · Post #1141 » by **UptownPhilly** » Thu Jul 30, 2009 9:18 am

That was undoubtedly a boneheaded move, but it doesn't cement him as a terrible GM. It's really not all that bad. I'm sure personnel salary and player are factored differently into the cap. So that probably shouldn't matter to us.

I can also think of at least 7 teams(there are definitely more) that have worst management than us.

Clippers- No explanation needed. The laughingstock of the NBA

Grizzlies: No need to explain

Kings: What are they doing?

Pacers- Bird has no clue. That team will be mediocre for a very long time.

Suns- Steve Kerr may be making a case for one of the worst GM's of all time.

Bobcats- Jordan has no clue. ^^^

Warriors- Larry Riley is messing up already. I doubt he'll turn that franchise around, before we do with our's.

UptownPhilly · Post #1142 » by **UptownPhilly** » Thu Jul 30, 2009 9:21 am

Stefanski isn't as good as we thought he was his first few months here, but he's got time to improve, and he'll soon have the tools to make some things happen. We may not see any major player movement by the trade deadline at the earliest, but I anticipate that he won't sit still for too long.

ryst · Post #1143 » by **ryst** » Thu Jul 30, 2009 10:06 am

so because there are "terrible" front offices in the legaue we should be fine by settling on a "bad" one? not to me

the issue with cheeks got nothing to do with salary , its got a lot to do with a GM who doesnt understand what does it mean to build a team, doesnt understand the value of a coach( we saw it again with Dileo this year),doesnt have a plan , and even if he makes us belive he has a plan he is changing it every few months.

resigning Mo cheeks remind me of the resigning of Dalembert by BK,
Dalmebert had mostly a bad time with the sixers since he was drafted,everyone knows he is basketball stupid,have some locker room issues , but hey he just played great ver. detroit in the playoffs on his contract year , so lets give him a huge contract

Mo had a bad time with the sixers most of the time since he was hired,most fans wanted him out,he proved in portland and with the sixers he cant handle the job,but he just had 2 good months to close his last season(and that after the GM forced him to use the young players more) so lets resign him to lead this team in the next few years

does anyone see the difference between BK and stefanski? i dont

radrmd216 · Post #1144 » by **radrmd216** » Thu Jul 30, 2009 10:08 am

Ryst, would you have liked Ed to trde Smith and a 2ns rounder for Bellineli. Maybe that could have gottena deal done. Maybe they wanted expirings all along. I think next year Ed could make those expiring contracts for talent deals, but right now the Sixers have very few assets.

Roletagg, the word premature was a good word to use. We don't know if Ed is really bad. not enough time has passed and he has only been the Gm for one full season. Like you said 2011 will be Ed's defining year. Billy King's signings will be off the books and Ed will be able to make the roster truly his creation. If he does a bad job then we should all say he is a bad GM.

I wanted Miller traded at the deadlin, but I don't think that move can cement Ed has a horrible GM. I wanted the Sixers to stay as a young building team, but Ed signed Brand and many people wanted that. Besides resources, a GM or coach needs time. They have to be able to build the team the way they want and it might take some time.

ryst · Post #1145 » by **ryst** » Thu Jul 30, 2009 10:33 am

i dont think a 2nd rounder was needed , Jason smith is a much better player and prospect then devon george is right now.
the sixers have Dalembert,brand,speights,young who can play the front court positions and they can always add one or two bodies with the minimum up front
and its not like smith was lighting the world on fire before the tough injurey,so for me it would have been an easy trade, one GS will love to do, much better then what they got from toronto
and it fil a huge need was the sixers.
unlike Kapono , Bellineli can actualy play and drive to the basket, he has a lot more talnet then Kapono and is a much better player, and just as good outside shooter.

no brainer in my book, where was stefanski? sleeping on the job as usual

radrmd216 · Post #1146 » by **radrmd216** » Thu Jul 30, 2009 11:23 am

The move was not about getting talent though. Maybe if they wanted a young big with some upside they would have traded for Smith, but they wanted an expiring contract. I don't even know if Smith has enough value to get a decent young player like Bellineli. Like you said Smith wasn't that great before the injury, add the ACL injury and he has ban value. It's probaly better to just keep Smith and see what he can do, he won't bring more value then what his value to this team is.

Bellineli is no way makes ther Sixers a contender, but he would have been a nice ypung piece to add and see if he could stay on the team long term. This is just another trade that shows that expiring contracts are very value this offseason. Hopefully expiring contracts have the sam value next year. the Sxiers could make some very nice moves next year and they probably will.

The Sixers could make some trades, but they would be trading Thad or Speights. they could also trade Brand, Dalembert< or green right now, but they would get worse contracts or worse players.

Gsraider · Post #1147 » by **Gsraider** » Thu Jul 30, 2009 12:53 pm

The only constant with Stefanski this season is the silence. Every morning I open up RealGM to see if Philly is at least rumored to make a minor move or might be interested in someone and every morning it's just a matter of sifting through information about what other team's have done or are doing.

Post #1148 » by **Foshan** » Thu Jul 30, 2009 1:39 pm

i think smith would have gotten the job done for Bel if we had offered it, but i'd rather keep smith, imo. In this offense, a 7ft who can shoot will be very valuable.

Gsraider · Post #1149 » by **Gsraider** » Thu Jul 30, 2009 2:04 pm

Ouch. In addition to Tom's blurb which has ESPN suggesting that Philly might be a team that moves back in the standings this year, Hoopshype just ranked them #12 in the Eastern Conference alone after the loss of A. Miller. That's a bit harsh and these same guys suggested the team would implode after the Iverson deal, but I think they are probably closer to correct this time around than last.

It's scary to believe that Philly's current fate pretty much lies in the hands of Lou Williams and a fast developing J. Holiday, but it is what it is I suppose. The only wildcards in the mix are if Jordan's PO can actually mask some of their deficiencies and/or if they still acquire another PG prior to the start of the season. Whatever the case, if Brand returns this year with a vengeance (a big if), it will be a real shame if the team is held back because of subpar PG play.

And no, I don't think Iverson is the answer to this dilemma, but we should probably start another couple of threads in the meantime to debate it.

The Sixer Fixer · Post #1150 » by **The Sixer Fixer** » Thu Jul 30, 2009 2:29 pm

radrmd216 wrote:The move was not about getting talent though. Maybe if they wanted a young big with some upside they would have traded for Smith, but they wanted an expiring contract.

This is the 2nd time someone has said they traded him to get an expiring contract. Was that printed somewhere? It doesn'tmake sense. Technically Belineli is an expiring contract so if that's what they wanted, it would make more sense to just keep him since he has more upside than George.

Since George has virtually no value, I'm guessing the only reason GS did this deal was because of the amount of cash that they received with George (amount not disclosed yet). It doesn't make sense any other way as I'm sure they could have received a better expiring player than George.

Post #1151 » by **sixers hoops** » Thu Jul 30, 2009 4:31 pm

ryst wrote:doesnt have a plan , and even if he makes us belive he has a plan he is changing it every few months.

I think his biggest mistake was he decided to win now and when that didn't work he quickly switched to a rebuild.

I think he came in with capspace available the following summer and had to decide whether to try to win now or win 3 years from now.

The win now plan was to sign Brand, re-sign the Andres, get necessary role players to immediately contend. The win in 3 years was Josh Smith and start to build with young players like Thad and Speights. However, due to Josh Smith's restricted status, he went with Brand and a win now plan.

After Brand didn't mesh with Iguodala and Thad, Sammy regressed, and the team couldn't get out of the first round. He realized that he can't immediately contend, and he switched to a rebuild plan which involved letting Miller walk and letting Jrue and Lou get minutes to develop.

Ultimately, I don't think Brand, Iguodala, and Thad are a good enough trio to win an NBA championship, so I am fine going into a rebuild mode. Nevertheless, I still don't see how we significantly improve the talent level of this roster. Jrue, Lou, Thad, and Speights should continue to develop, but overall we don't have the All-NBA type player that will likely be needed to build around for us to get a ring.

Post #1152 » by **The Guilty Party** » Thu Jul 30, 2009 5:29 pm

Perfectly put, hoops! Man... it's good to have you back on the boards.

Post #1153 » by **The Guilty Party** » Thu Jul 30, 2009 5:32 pm

By the way, can we all safely say the honeymoon is over for Ed Stefanski? How much more time do you think he has before his seat starts to warm up? I think he's completely safe this year but let's say the Sixers are TERRIBLE... is his job in jeopardy next summer?

Bring Back 1983 · Post #1154 » by **Bring Back 1983** » Thu Jul 30, 2009 5:50 pm

TGP, I think he will be on the hot seat for a non-basketball reason - money. This team is looking at a bunch of empty seats in a bad economy which is a GM disaster. He has no hopes (as of now) of getting a top 5 lottery pick in 2010 and he has no cap room to sign an impact free agent. The trump card of hiring a new coach has already been played and is unlikely to increase the gate.

I applaud Ed for not doing a "name" signing just to fill the seats, knowing that it would kill chemistry and the development of our young kids. But unless Iggy makes a quantum leap to superstar status, there is nothing to excite the fan base right now. I actually think he has made the right picks in the draft so far and made a good choice for a head coach, but it's not going to help the Comcast bank account.

Post #1155 » by **tk76** » Thu Jul 30, 2009 6:36 pm

So it will be the next GM that tries to trade away Brand? Because I can't see Ed trading him without it looking like an admission of guilt (right or wrong, because it did seem like a good move at the time.)

As stated before, I don't want to trade Brand until he re-establishes his value. And don't trade him at all if the team surpises us and is legit.

The Sixer Fixer · Post #1156 » by **The Sixer Fixer** » Thu Jul 30, 2009 6:57 pm

The Guilty Party wrote:By the way, can we all safely say the honeymoon is over for Ed Stefanski? How much more time do you think he has before his seat starts to warm up? I think he's completely safe this year but let's say the Sixers are TERRIBLE... is his job in jeopardy next summer?

I really don't get the impatience that so many fans are showing right now. Give the guy time for gods sake. You don't go from an under .500 team to a champion overnight unless you have lots of young talent and you trade it away for the quick fix (like the Celtics did). There is no way Ed's job is in jeopardy for the forseeable future. He has done nothing wrong.

Let's recap...he traded away Korver to free up cap room for last offseason. He signed the 1 player the vast majority of the fan base wanted us to get and used all our cap space to do it. We all knew that we still needed shooters and Ed repeatedly said the same thing. He had no more $$ to spend, except for min guys and he used those roster spots to bring in a player many on the board wanted us to sign (Rush). He also added Donyell who fit the shooter role we needed. Again, moves the majority supported last offseason. One of the 2 was awful after shooting pretty well the year before. Is that Ed's fault? He also signed Ratliff who many wanted and he worked out as well as could be expected.

Ok - for this season, he surprised the majority of the board by making a pretty good trade in moving the hated Evans for Kapono. He got one of the elite shooters so many wanted us to get. As for Miller, the majority didn't want him back, he didn't sign him. Should we have done a S/T? They tried, but said multiple times the offers were crap. We would all be pissed if he took back players with multiple years left who aren't that good. Despite that, it's like some people say we should have done a S/T just to get SOMETHING back. That would have been the dumbest thing to do. It was clear last year that very few teams were going to be interested in Miller this offseason but we ignore that when complaining about no S/T deal happening.

People want us to use the MLE this year despite the fact that it would not make the difference in a title. How the F does that make sense? Why not let the season play out, see what you have at PG and everywhere else and use the MLE next year when you have a better grasp on what the team needs to move forward. I think it's pretty clear there's no one out there that we can get at the MLE that would put this team over the top so save the $$ for later in the season or next year.

Also, does anyone know for sure that Ed had the green light to sign guys for more than the min? Maybe he's getting orders from above that he can't spend. We just don't know for sure. We really should evalute the guy based on the moves HE MADE and not the ones we THINK he SHOULD HAVE. Based on the deals/signings he DID make, the board was in majority agreement that they were the right ones. Oh, but now Ed sucks because we didn't win a title based on them? Patience people patience.

Speaking of patience, some people think Ed rushed to use the cap space we had last year by signing Brand. It's been said that we should have held onto it for someone else. Could you imagine how bad he would have been killed on this board for NOT using the cap space and waiting a year or 2 until a better option came up? OMG - people kill him over not signing some minimum level FA...I can't even imagive how bad they would be killing him over holding cap space (and Josh Smith would not have taken this team to the next level..Brand is/was a much better option). We would be even more pissed if Josh Smith was the PF going into this season.

Dedicated_76ers_fan · Post #1157 » by **Dedicated_76ers_fan** » Thu Jul 30, 2009 6:59 pm

The key for the Sixers is gonna be the PG Spot. I think we gotta acknowledge the talent of this basketball team. Brand's a guy who'll get you 20/10, Iggy's a great player who's improved every year and Thaddeus Young is a kid that plays the right way and that always wins games.

Lou Will says his favorite player is A.I and he's that type of player. Well, the key for Lou is going to be: Can you do what A.I couldn't?: Balance scoring.

If Lou can pick and choose his spots and get people involved, he could be a hell of a player. However, if he's a shot clock stopper, that's gonna cause this team some problems.

I think Jrue Holiday is NBA ready and Princeton Ready.

ryst · Post #1158 » by **ryst** » Thu Jul 30, 2009 7:51 pm

sixer fixer ,

if you think stefasnki moves so far are so understandable can you please tell me why did he resign Mo Cheeks and fired him after 3 months , whats the logic behind that? where is the correct evaluation about an exsiting coach? where is the future plan in that?

the thing with Miller is not the s&t this summer(i personaly thinks Blake is garbage and prefer Lou to him) its about trading Miller before the deadline because you know you wont be able or dont want to sign him.

i dont belive that stefanski tried to trade miller,dalembert,green and wasnt able to find even one team who would give a decent offer for any of them , this is the NBA , any player can be traded,no matter how bad he play and how bad his contract is , and we see it every year , there have been much worse contracts and players that had been traded in the last few years,but only sixers players are untradeable? i dont buy and dont belive it.

enough with all this stupid ideas about not signing x player to a contract because he will not make us a contender, you dont become a contender over night,you think the lakers traded for trevor areza 2 years ago because they know he will have a big part of there finals win? ofcourse not
you sign players and trade for players to get better,to be a better team, you ger better every year and get to be a contender.
you want the sixers to do what they did last year all over again with the brand signing,to sign one big player and "get" to be a contnder? thats not possible,as we have just seen
LB sixers wasnt a contender out of nothing , it took them a few years to build the team,the snow and macky trades,the ratliff trade,lynch signing,etc
and only after a few years of building a team by getting better players every year and mold them together they become a contender.
they didnt think to themself , why should we trade for eric snow? this guy will not make us a contender
enough with this lets not sign or trade for anyone because this guy will not make us a contender

i actualy agree with you that sixers ownership gave stefanski an order not to spend money(because like i said before,they are cheap)so why doesnt he come out with that?
why does he have to lie to us about trying to trade players he never will? why make pitiful offers for free agents(bibby,miller,cj watson) knwoing they will have to refuse?
why telling us there were no decent offers for miller at the deadline last year?
those are all lies
stefasnki and sixers ownership treat us the fans like we are idiots , i will treat them the same way.
we are not 5 year olds, we can see whats going on and no spinning of any kind will make me belive stefanski.

The Sixer Fixer · Post #1159 » by **The Sixer Fixer** » Thu Jul 30, 2009 8:38 pm

ryst wrote:sixer fixer ,

if you think stefasnki moves so far are so understandable can you please tell me why did he resign Mo Cheeks and fired him after 3 months , whats the logic behind that? where is the correct evaluation about an exsiting coach? where is the future plan in that?.

Giving him the extention was the right thing to do at the time. He took a team that honestly wasn't real good to the playoffs so he extended Cheeks because he needed to show him support. He went out and brought in a PF..something this team lacked under Cheeks before Brand. Problem was, the team didn't mesh and they regressed last year so he fired him. Personally, I would have let Cheeks finish out the season, but Ed didn't want to. In retrospect, it was a mistake, but please...you can't play this game that a GM won't make bad decisoins along the way. Every GM has and will continue to.

the thing with Miller is not the s&t this summer(i personaly thinks Blake is garbage and prefer Lou to him) its about trading Miller before the deadline because you know you wont be able or dont want to sign him

They has said REPEATEDLY they listened to offers at the deadline and basically they sucked. You would be killing him if he took back trash that was clogging up our roster right now. Guaranteed!

i dont belive that stefanski tried to trade miller,dalembert,green and wasnt able to find even one team who would give a decent offer for any of them , this is the NBA , any player can be traded,no matter how bad he play and how bad his contract is , and we see it every year , there have been much worse contracts and players that had been traded in the last few years,but only sixers players are untradeable? i dont buy and dont belive it.

You may not believe it, but he clearly said the offered Sam around with no luck. He's said they listed for Miller and no one offered anything worthwile. As for Green, who knows. Of course they could find a taker for all those guys, but trading them doesn't mean you get something better in return. If you don't, what's the point to dealing them. If he's being offered trash in return, I applaud him for not caving and taking a garbage offer that holds us back long term. Be patient, Green and Sam will have more trade value next year and if you can't move at least they are gone the folowing year.

enough with all this stupid ideas about not signing x player to a contract because he will not make us a contender, you dont become a contender over night,you think the lakers traded for trevor areza 2 years ago because they know he will have a big part of there finals win? ofcourse not
you sign players and trade for players to get better,to be a better team, you ger better every yearand get to be a contender.

It's not stupid, it's good business. But apparently you don't know the first thing about running a business. You don't add more employees and expenses when you aren't doing well financially. How many more seats would a Trevor Ariza type fill. Answer. NONE!! A signing like that might cause fans to go less because no one cares about adding Trevor Ariza to a marginal team. He won't do anything for us. We can sign Trevor Ariza in a couple years when we are closer to a title. You don't waste cap space on average guys like that who will barely play. Also, the Lakers don't win crap because of Ariza...they won because they stole Pau Gasol. Ariza has a nice playoff run, but he was harldy a reaosn they won the title...they win last year even if they didn' have him.

you want the sixers to do what they did last year all over again with the brand signing,to sign one big player and "get" to be a contnder? thats not possible,as we have just seen
LB sixers wasnt a contender out of nothing , it took them a few years to build the team,the snow and macky trades,the ratliff trade,lynch signing,etc

Nope. Never said that. I say exactly the opposite. Sign your 1-2 year min type deals. Let the young kids get more minutes. Let them develop. Be patient with the won/loss record this year. Lets get a serious look at Lou and Jrue at PG so that we know next year if we need to add a PG. It may mean trading Lou, but we will never know if he can handle the job until he's give a shot to succeed or fail. The only guy I suggest bringing in are young players who have shown some potential and maybe a vert PG to help Lou/Jrue.

stefasnki and sixers ownership treat us the fans like we are idiots , i will treat them the same way.
we are not 5 year olds, we can see whats going on and no spinning of any kind will make me belive stefanski.

I don't think the team is doing any of that. I think that's just what YOU think they are doing. I believe they have realized they are not that close and this year is probably a "see what you have" year. They aren't trying to sell you that the team is going to be better after losing Miller. I guess that's just your impression of the situation. It's a GM job to always be positive anyhow so I can't see why you would get upset if he ties to "sell" Lou as the starting PG. He needs to show confidence in the players on this team..especially the one he signed/re-signed. There's nothing wrong with that. You, as a fan, have a brain so you can process it however you want.

I actually think there's a good chance this team will be better than last years team so I'm staying positive about the season. I think a healthy Brand will be a big addition. I think another year of experience for Iguodala, Young, Speights, Lou, etc. will allow them to be even better. I love the Holiday pick. I don't think he will contribute more than just D this year, but that's fine....you knew he was more of a work in progess than other PG's when they drafted him. I would still like to see us add a young SG and PF/C with some upside (Almond/G. Green/Powe (injured)/C. Simmons types). There is still time for that so I can't speak negatively on it until we see who the roster filler is. If they can't sign CJ Watson at PG, then get a vet there.

ryst · Post #1160 » by **ryst** » Thu Jul 30, 2009 10:10 pm

you mis understood alot of what i have said but thats ok
to me the signing or resigning of a coach is a huge issue , the coach has the system,need to work in the players and make the tough calls , stefasnki didnt "have" to resign Mo, no one forced him
as a GM he needs to see into the future and has a plan , no GM in there right mind would resign Cheeks after the terrible time he had with the sixers but stefanski did, and then FIRE him after 3 months, the bad managmaent in its finest.

i have a certion way and idea how to build a team the right way , you have a different view

lets just leave it at that