Patriots: Greatest team of the last Decade?

magicfan4life05 · Post #1 » by **magicfan4life05** » Tue Oct 2, 2007 9:11 am

i dont wanna get all ahead of myself or anything, but is it possible this patriot team is one of the best teams of all time?

J.Kim Edit: People, don't go on flaming the OP for this topic. I thought this would be a meritable discussion and split it from the original thread in the NFL Weekly (Primetime) thread.

Monkeyfeng06 · Post #2 » by **Monkeyfeng06** » Tue Oct 2, 2007 3:10 pm

it's only week 4.

magicfan4life05 · Post #3 » by **magicfan4life05** » Tue Oct 2, 2007 3:41 pm

ya i think i kinda lost my mind with that oxymoron, or was it too early in the morning lol, they are just really efficient but def way too early to say that...

Post #4 » by **J.Kim** » Tue Oct 2, 2007 3:47 pm

I split these posts off because, through 4 weeks, this is now a meritable discussion.

I don't think they're the greatest team ever (Though, if they keep this up, they will be), but I do think they're the Greatest team of the last Decade. And I think the DVOAs and the Subjective analysis can back me up on this.

bigboy1234 · Post #5 » by **bigboy1234** » Tue Oct 2, 2007 4:05 pm

Greatest team in the last decade? Thats more than likely the 1999 St. Louis Rams.

Now can the 2007 Patriots be better than them, time will tell, but they are on pace to be better, but theres still a lot of season left to be played.

Post #6 » by **CBS7** » Tue Oct 2, 2007 4:21 pm

Through 4 games:

#2 in total offense
#5 in passing offense
#4 in rushing offense
#2 in scoring offense

#1 in total defense
#4 in passing defense
#3 in rushing defense
#4 in scoring defense

Post #7 » by **J.Kim** » Tue Oct 2, 2007 4:23 pm

bigboy1234 wrote:Greatest team in the last decade? Thats more than likely the 1999 St. Louis Rams.

Now can the 2007 Patriots be better than them, time will tell, but they are on pace to be better, but theres still a lot of season left to be played.

I know we're only 1/4 through the season, but around week 4-6 is usually where you tell which teams are for real, and which teams aren't (and subsequently, which players are for real, and which players aren't). It's enough of a time to merit consistency.

Looking back, the greatest team in the last decade isn't so far-fetched.
No team has been really spectacular over that stretch of time.

Post #8 » by **J.Kim** » Tue Oct 2, 2007 4:26 pm

_CBS7_ wrote:Through 4 games:

#2 in total offense
#5 in passing offense
#4 in rushing offense
#2 in scoring offense

#1 in total defense
#4 in passing defense
#3 in rushing defense
#4 in scoring defense

Just to supplement this:

85.5% Total DVOA
53.5% Total Offensive DVOA (Rank #1)
-28.0% Total Defensive DVOA (Rank #2)
4.1% Special Teams DVOA (Rank #10)

In the last couple of years of reading Football Outsiders, I don't think I've seen a team this high in Overall DVOA through any 4 week stretch of Football.

Post #9 » by **NO-KG-AI** » Tue Oct 2, 2007 4:27 pm

I'd say yeah.

1999 rams were nice, as mentioned. I'd take this team though, especially when Seymour comes back

bigboy1234 · Post #10 » by **bigboy1234** » Tue Oct 2, 2007 4:35 pm

J.Kim wrote:-= original quote snipped =-

Just to supplement this:

85.5% Total DVOA
53.5% Total Offensive DVOA (Rank #1)
-28.0% Total Defensive DVOA (Rank #2)
4.1% Special Teams DVOA (Rank #10)

In the last couple of years of reading Football Outsiders, I don't think I've seen a team this high in Overall DVOA through any 4 week stretch of Football.

Last season the Chargers had a total DVOA of 83.8%
http://www.footballoutsiders.com/2006/0 ... ings/4300/

The season before that the Bengals had a total DVOA of 92.0%.
http://www.footballoutsiders.com/2005/0 ... ings/2947/

Post #11 » by **J.Kim** » Tue Oct 2, 2007 4:41 pm

bigboy1234 wrote:-= original quote snipped =-

Last season the Chargers had a total DVOA of 83.8%
http://www.footballoutsiders.com/2006/0 ... ings/4300/

The season before that the Bengals had a total DVOA of 92.0%.
http://www.footballoutsiders.com/2005/0 ... ings/2947/

SD shows up as 2-0 and CIN shows up as 3-0 for me :dontknow:

Edit: I take it that even with Week 4 accounted for, SD and CIN would be lower.

CIN barely edged out Houston in a 16-10 win in week 4, SD lost to Baltimore 16-13 in week 4.

bigboy1234 · Post #12 » by **bigboy1234** » Tue Oct 2, 2007 4:46 pm

J.Kim wrote:-= original quote snipped =-

SD shows up as 2-0 and CIN shows up as 3-0 for me

Ah, you got me, I just clicked on week 4, I was too lazy to actually look at the records.

Post #13 » by **ReasonablySober** » Tue Oct 2, 2007 4:47 pm

Just missing the 'last decade' were th '96 Green Bay Packers.

#1 on offense, #1 on defense.

bigboy1234 · Post #14 » by **bigboy1234** » Tue Oct 2, 2007 4:51 pm

DrugBust wrote:Just missing the 'last decade' were th '96 Green Bay Packers.

#1 on offense, #1 on defense.

That was a very good team, I still think the Rams team was slightly better, but it is really really close.

1996 Packers Team

1999 Rams Team

I just think the Patriots have a lot of work to do, before we know for sure about them, although they have been dominant so far this season.

Post #15 » by **Basketball Jesus** » Tue Oct 2, 2007 4:58 pm

bigboy1234 wrote:Last season the Chargers had a total DVOA of 83.8%
http://www.footballoutsiders.com/2006/0 ... ings/4300/

The season before that the Bengals had a total DVOA of 92.0%.
http://www.footballoutsiders.com/2005/0 ... ings/2947/

EDIT:NVM

Post #16 » by **J.Kim** » Tue Oct 2, 2007 5:01 pm

bigboy1234 wrote:-= original quote snipped =-

That was a very good team, I still think the Rams team was slightly better, but it is really really close.

1996 Packers Team

1999 Rams Team

I just think the Patriots have a lot of work to do, before we know for sure about them, although they have been dominant so far this season.

I know Objectively in a statistical realm, there's still 3/4s of the season ahead, but in subjective terms I don't think I've ever seen anyone play quite like this over a four-week stretch both offensively and defensively (In the last decade). The closest I could think of is probably the 96 Packers and the 99 Rams.
I mean, sure there were many teams that were better on either Offense (98 Vikings) and Defense (02 Ravens), but not many on both sides of the ball like this.

Post #17 » by **Worm Guts** » Tue Oct 2, 2007 5:05 pm

The '99 Rams were pretty weak on defense, weren't they? I thought it was the '01 Rams that had a tough defense.

bigboy1234 · Post #18 » by **bigboy1234** » Tue Oct 2, 2007 5:06 pm

Jkim-Oh, I agree they have been utterly dominant, and they still have a couple parts to add, so that should arguably make them even better. I really would just like to see more than 4 weeks worth, but so far they are on their way to one of the greatest teams ever.

bigboy1234 · Post #19 » by **bigboy1234** » Tue Oct 2, 2007 5:09 pm

Worm Guts wrote:The '99 Rams were pretty weak on defense, weren't they? I thought it was the '01 Rams that had a tough defense.

If you think the 4th best defense in the league is weak, while having one of best offenses of all-time scoring all the time.

Post #20 » by **Worm Guts** » Tue Oct 2, 2007 6:30 pm

bigboy1234 wrote:-= original quote snipped =-

If you think the 4th best defense in the league is weak, while having one of best offenses of all-time scoring all the time.

I looked it up. In '99 they had the 4th best scoring defense but were 7th in yards allowed. In '01 they were 7th in scoring defense but 3rd in yards allowed.
I think my memory was skewed by their horrific 2000 defense which was #31 in points allowed.