Celtics sign Shelden Williams

[wigglestrue]

Not terrible for a 12th man. Better rebounder than Baby? Not saying much, but...Sign me up.

But good lord. That face is hideous, like some Conan O'Brien "If They Mated" mutant. Like a tropical fruit bat cross-bred with Ken Griffey Jr. on nerve tonic. And to think Candace Parker let herself get knocked up by that. I'm sure he's a wonderful human being. Go Celts!

[UNCarquest]

Shelden Williams is the Landlord because he "owns the paint." Yeah, something like that.

There was an article from back when Shelden Williams was in high school, and he compared his game to Rasheed Wallace, without the attitude.

[JHTruth]

Hinrich is a pretty sweet player. Is he overpaid on the Bulls? Yeah, probably. Is he overpaid anywhere where there's a hole at PG? Nope. He'd start, play fantastic defense at the 1, 2, and even sometimes at the 3, shoot well, dish well, and run an offense. 8.8 million a year for your starting PG...is just not overpaid. So would he be overpaid on the Celtics? Sure...you've got Rondo at the position. But you're a title contender. Overpaid is nearly irrelevant. The question is are you deep enough in the backcourt? My answer is a heeeeeeeell no. You guys have great starters there, but other than the mediocre, streaky, and tiny Eddie House, I think you guys have crap-all at the backup 1 and 2 spots. I don't even want to hear you talk about Daniels. Plain and simple, he's one of the worst shooters in the league relative to position, and he has no ability to provide the bench scoring and shot creation you guys need.

That's why I thought you guys could really use Jamal Crawford (I know, I strongly dislike him too, but he fits rather well), but Atlanta snatched him up for expirings. As for Hinrich, it's pretty clear that the Bulls value him more than expirings, because opportunities for such things have come up with Portland. We've held off each time. If we'd retained Gordon, yes, Hinrich would be available. But we didn't. So he's not, short of anything but a better player or a cheaper equivalent. We need his bench production. So do you, but we're not letting go so easily.

I think there is some moving parts here that might make a Hinrich for say expirings and a pick possible. The Bulls clearly want to be players in the 2010 FA market. Hinrich at the end of the day is a PG. Since the Bulls franchise player is also a PG, Hinrich is delegated to a role player role, which is fine. Hinrich is really the ultimate rotation guard. However he is overpaid in that role considerably. Now as you said, we're going for rings, so overpaid doesn't mean much to us.

However the Bulls need cap flexibility, as much as possible. Clearly by letting their franchise scorer leave to Detroit, Chicago conceded going forward as currently constructed. I think the Bulls situation would make a deal like expirings, a pick, and say Giddens would get done..

[GuyClinch]

I like Hinrich too - but he isn't coming here at least not till he only has one year left of his salary. Teams just aren't going to pay that kind of money for a backup PG. They will let the Bulls stew in their own mistake.

As I said before - its a hard case to pay ANY PG a ton of money and paying that to merely an above average PG. That's crazy.

As far as Williams goes - I do think he puts the C's in the drivers seat with regard to BBD. One advantage BBD had was that he was the only "space eater" on the team. You know the guy that could body up against bigs and push them around some. They now have someone like that in Williams who is a better shot blocker and rebounder to boot.

Yes he sucks at the offensive end and is smaller then BBD - but negotations wise if BBD wants to sit out the C's will call that bluff, IMHO. They can play hard ball now.

Pete

[Tenbomber]

hmmm...another "project" player for Clifford Ray to work with....look for marked improvement from him over the course of the season.....JMO

[BrooklynBulls]

I think there is some moving parts here that might make a Hinrich for say expirings and a pick possible. The Bulls clearly want to be players in the 2010 FA market. Hinrich at the end of the day is a PG. Since the Bulls franchise player is also a PG, Hinrich is delegated to a role player role, which is fine. Hinrich is really the ultimate rotation guard. However he is overpaid in that role considerably. Now as you said, we're going for rings, so overpaid doesn't mean much to us.

However the Bulls need cap flexibility, as much as possible. Clearly by letting their franchise scorer leave to Detroit, Chicago conceded going forward as currently constructed. I think the Bulls situation would make a deal like expirings, a pick, and say Giddens would get done..

If the Bulls didn't already have max capspace lined up, I'd say you were right. But letting go of Gordon and retaining Hinrich was a strategic move made to ensure such flexibility. Trading Hinrich for expirings gives us even more space, but we'd just be looking for a replacement for Hinrich with that space. It's pointless for us. If we were to get a good 2-guard, or a good power forward, then trading Hinrich is a possibility. But because he fits on the court and doesn't cripple our flexibility, we're not looking to dump him.

[Slartibartfast]

Hinrich is not just a back-up PG. He showed against us that he could guard Ray and Pierce more effectively than any other Bull. A big combo guard who can guard 3 positions, pass and hit the 3 is definitely worth overpaying at 9 mil.

[GuyClinch]

^^^ Don't agree. He would be a back up on C's - seeing few minutes behind Rondo. I'd absolutely take Daniels over him at 2million per. Sure Daniels can't shoot but he can play 1, 2, and 3 - and is better defender and more athletic..

As a NE fan i always think of the patriots. Its not just about having talented players its about getting good value for your dollar spent. Hinrich is a good player. He is not a good value though. PGs just don't have enough of an impact at the NBA level to be throwing that kind of money around on a backup.

Pete

[BrooklynBulls]

He's not a better defender. He's not. He's larger. It doesn't make him better. I do understand not wanting to specifically acquire Hinrich just to be a backup. Seems a waste, if you're already going to be giving up assets for him.

[chas0x01]

If we resign baby. Our frontcourt is pretty damn deep.

KG/Baby/Scal
Perk/Sheed/Williams

A lot of toughness and versatility. Plus, more size than we have had recently.

Then if we are able to move TA in a S + T for Daniels. I think the roster is pretty set outside of maybe an emergency PG. Maybe they wait until the waiver wire to fill the two spots.

Rondo/House
Ray/Daniels/ Giddens
Pierce/ Walker
KG/ Baby / Scal
Perk / Sheed / Williams

I have a crazy idea if the Pacers don't go for the S&T, and we have to use the LLE for Daniels. Trade TA, Scal, and Walker for Marco Jaric and a 2nd rounder. Then sign Bowen and a 3rd Center - Swift, Mihm, etc.

Rondo, Jaric, Hudson
RA, House, Giddens
PP, MD, Bowen
KG, BBD, SW
Perk, Sheed, ?

You could run either Jaric or MD with House so you'd always have size in the backcourt. Bowen at the 3 is still a better option than Scal in terms of defense and shooting the 3. Jaric has 2 years left on his contract so we could possibly use that as an expiring trade the following year.

[theman]

^^^ Don't agree. He would be a back up on C's - seeing few minutes behind Rondo. I'd absolutely take Daniels over him at 2million per. Sure Daniels can't shoot but he can play 1, 2, and 3 - and is better defender and more athletic..

As a NE fan i always think of the patriots. Its not just about having talented players its about getting good value for your dollar spent. Hinrich is a good player. He is not a good value though. PGs just don't have enough of an impact at the NBA level to be throwing that kind of money around on a backup.

Pete

Wow.

He might be a backup on the C's. But he would be backing up both Rondo and Ray Allen and getting at least 25 minutes a game. Daniels is not a point guard. I don't know why people can not see this. He can play point like Ray Allen does. In fact, Tony Allen is probably a better point guard than Marquis Daniels is.

Hinrich would also be insurance in case Ray Allen or Rondo are not with the team after next season. He could even start this season if Ray Allen starts to break down. The more I think about it the more I come to realize that Hinrich is the perfect piece to add to the Celtics roster. A top eight that includes Rasheed, Marquis and Hinrich coming off the bench would make this team unstopabull.

Now the only question is what would it take to actually pry Hinrich from Chicago?

[GuyClinch]

He might be a backup on the C's. But he would be backing up both Rondo and Ray Allen and getting at least 25 minutes a game. Daniels is not a point guard. I don't know why people can not see this. He can play point like Ray Allen does. In fact, Tony Allen is probably a better point guard than Marquis Daniels is.

Nonsense. Rondo with his body type and age can play 40 minutes a game without a problem. Ray Allen will easily play 36. So that leaves 20 minutes for Hinrich and 9 million per. What is worse (and I tried to explain this before) is that your vorp compared to House and Daniels is MARGINAL at best.

How many WINS will playing Hinrich instead of Daniels and House give you. Just about ZERO. So you end up paying 9 million dollars for a guy who will produce..very little in terms of bang for buck. It wouldn't even be shocking if the tandem of House/Daniels could outproduce Hinrich.

This is the problem with playing PG's alot of money. The difference from one PG to another is not large enough to command these kind of dollars. The major reason is that PG's are not much of a factor on the defensive end of the court.

That's why I use Daniels as my counter. Perhaps he doesn't shoot or pass as well as Hinrich. But he drives to the basket better and defends better. Thus Hinrich's impact over Daniels is dubious. A smart team will instead invest that money in a big. A big will provide a rebounding and defensive punch that lessor bigs cannot. The drop off between bigs is ENORMOUS. You have a "big" like BBD who can't rebound or block shots but can score and defend in the post. And you have a big like Kevin Garnett or Tim Duncan who can basically do EVERYTHING. The offensive and defensive impact is HUGE.

THere is a reason why the C's won a championship after acquiring Garnett. There is a reason why getting R. Wallace will be a huge boost.. If you want to win a championship spend your money on bigs and swingmen. PG's are to small to make a large enough total impact..

The Bulls were flat out stupid to play Hinrich that kind of money. You don't want to reward them for their stupidity.. Let them wallow in their losing ways that come from spending their money in an inefficent manner..

Pete

[ParticleMan]

i like Kirk overall but that contract is a non-starter (pun intended).
maybe next year when he has only 2 yrs left, and if we can dump some crap in return, i'd consider it.
but paxson has a reputation for only doing a trade if he's clearly getting the better end. that's why he never takes the plunge for a big talent where you have to overpay. but it also means we aren't going to get hinrich cheap.
i don't think capn kirk is in our future, certainly not this year but not the next couple of years either.

[TheOGJabroni]

He might be a backup on the C's. But he would be backing up both Rondo and Ray Allen and getting at least 25 minutes a game. Daniels is not a point guard. I don't know why people can not see this. He can play point like Ray Allen does. In fact, Tony Allen is probably a better point guard than Marquis Daniels is.

Nonsense. Rondo with his body type and age can play 40 minutes a game without a problem. Ray Allen will easily play 36. So that leaves 20 minutes for Hinrich and 9 million per. What is worse (and I tried to explain this before) is that your vorp compared to House and Daniels is MARGINAL at best.

Honestly, I didn't read this whole post but the above seems odd to me. Ray is another year older, and we already saw his legs go when he played 36 mpg last year. He definitely needs to trim that down a little IMO. Rondo also will not see 40 mpg, I'm sure. 36 for him is more plausible. That leaves 28 mpg. for a back up combo guard like Kirk if that were the way we wanted to go. Not 20.

[cisco]

Until Rondo learns to shoot and knock down free throws, I doubt he'll be seeing 40 MPG, even though he's young and capable of playing that many minutes. Doc likes players who can spread the floor.

[sweatdog]

PG is way more valuable to a team than certain people are implying, they dominate the ball and typically have the greatest understanding of the playbook. Thats why so many basketball coaches were former PG's. To hate on the PG is like saying a QB is overrated as a cog in the football offense. Im not discounting the center or any other position, but you have to give PG its due.

Hinrich has alot of skill and i like him over TJ Ford, Sessions, Nate Robinson to name a few. But hes not worth 9mil a year for most teams and until that contract expires the Celtics should let Chicago sleep in that bed.

But more on topic, i love the Williams signing and i think he will rise to the occasion and impress. Bravo to DA

[boston02131]

get replacement for POWE he wasnt coming back so might as well sign someone who can at least play a lil bit. gonna be a better project then POB!

Quick question can he be traded in a S&T for Daniels?

[BakersDozen]

How did this become a Hinrich thread?

[Avalanche]

How did this become a Hinrich thread?

no idea...

but wherever it came from, its not happening lol