Tom Moore 2.0

[Don]

mega montana: For who? Who are we going to get back?

[radrmd216]

I in no way want to trade Thad just to trade him. Igoudala is harder to trade becuase he makes a lot of money. Thad will be the Sixers best asset next offseason and it will be a year before he is due a big extension. I would trade Thad but it has to be in the right deal. I believe Thad and Iggy can play well together but not maximize their talents. If the Sixers could get a comparable player at SG or C I think they would have to trade Thad. It still allows a good player to come back and that player would play at a position of need.

I personally would trade Thad for someone like O.J. Mayo, but I don't think the Grizz would make that trade. I would also trade Thad if I thought I could move up in the draft and get a big man with a ot of potential.

For the Iggy QO situation, I think Detroit would have signed him if he didn't sign with the Sixers. The Blazers would have probably cleared space, but I don't know if Iggy would sign there. Toranto had to renounce the rights to Marion, and maybe someone else I'm not sure, in order to sign Hedo. I don't know the Toranto financial situation enough to now if they would have had enogh money to sign Iggy. I think Iggy would end up in Detroit because they would probably pay him what he wants and he could be the star of the team.

Mojo7, I assume you would rather Iggy signed his current contract than the QO. If you think Iggy could have been signed for less could you explain how? I'm not sure if he could have or not I'm just wondering what you think the best situation would be and how it could have occured.

[radrmd216]

I just want to add that Thad should be traded if the return gets a comparable player at a position of need. I'm a Sixers fan first and foremost, so if trading Thad makes the Sixers beter it should be done. There should be no emotional ties or biases becuase they just cloud judgement. If a trade makes the team better either in the short term or long term it should be done.

[Mojo7]

I in no way want to trade Thad just to trade him. Igoudala is harder to trade becuase he makes a lot of money. Thad will be the Sixers best asset next offseason and it will be a year before he is due a big extension. I would trade Thad but it has to be in the right deal. I believe Thad and Iggy can play well together but not maximize their talents. If the Sixers could get a comparable player at SG or C I think they would have to trade Thad. It still allows a good player to come back and that player would play at a position of need.

I personally would trade Thad for someone like O.J. Mayo, but I don't think the Grizz would make that trade. I would also trade Thad if I thought I could move up in the draft and get a big man with a ot of potential.

For the Iggy QO situation, I think Detroit would have signed him if he didn't sign with the Sixers. The Blazers would have probably cleared space, but I don't know if Iggy would sign there. Toranto had to renounce the rights to Marion, and maybe someone else I'm not sure, in order to sign Hedo. I don't know the Toranto financial situation enough to now if they would have had enogh money to sign Iggy. I think Iggy would end up in Detroit because they would probably pay him what he wants and he could be the star of the team.

Mojo7, I assume you would rather Iggy signed his current contract than the QO. If you think Iggy could have been signed for less could you explain how? I'm not sure if he could have or not I'm just wondering what you think the best situation would be and how it could have occured.

First, I don't consider Dala overpaid. He is actually performing at the level he's being paid at, if not slightly over. His contract is very fair, especially considering his comparables around the league. Would I love it if he undervalued himself and signed that original $57 million offer? Sure. As a businessman, you always prefer for your investments to overperform. But given the circumstances, the scenario worked out adequately. In terms of multidimensional impact, no one can make a competent argument that he did not perform to the level of his deal. The thing that kicked them in the ass this year was not getting their return on investment from either Brand or Sam. Dala did what he was supposed to do.

Second, I disagree with the meme going on that says they have to trade either Thad or Dala. They can co-exist perfectly fine; they just require a guard who can shoot as a running mate. This whole "Dala has to become Ray Allen 2.0 or else" is just plain incorrect. There are numerous off-guards who have played at high levels without being knock-down shooters(example: Dala already has a higher career 3-ball percentage then Drexler reached in any single year until his 7th season). Dala fits the mold of athletic slashing playmaker; he is not unique nor original.

[radrmd216]

Yea I guess Iggy's contract is okay, slightly overpaid, but I guess the amount is negligible to a team over the cap. The NBA is the worst league for a business owner. there are so many horrible invesments that a signing that isn't good looks good relative to other horrible signings.

I'm hoping Holiday will be the PG of the future. Out of the 1, 2, or 3 positions one has to be an good shooter. I like Thad becuase he was drafted by the Sixers and has played weel so far and has nice potential, but I try to not have any emtional ties with players. As a businessman emotiona ties should be eliminated when making hard decisions. If the Sixers could get a comparable player to Thad at SG or C then they have too.

I want to see the Sixers to win and have players maximize their talents. I think Iggy and thad could lggy could play well together, but I would rather see one of them at the 3 and a prototypical SG at the 2. I'm really not a homer for players becuase in a decade their will be a new set of players but the franchise will still be the Sixers.

Mojo, would you not trade Thad for a comparable player at SG or C.

[Mojo7]

Yea I guess Iggy's contract is okay, slightly overpaid, but I guess the amount is negligible to a team over the cap. The NBA is the worst league for a business owner. there are so many horrible invesments that a signing that isn't good looks good relative to other horrible signings.

I'm hoping Holiday will be the PG of the future. Out of the 1, 2, or 3 positions one has to be an good shooter. I like Thad becuase he was drafted by the Sixers and has played weel so far and has nice potential, but I try to not have any emtional ties with players. As a businessman emotiona ties should be eliminated when making hard decisions. If the Sixers could get a comparable player to Thad at SG or C then they have too.

I want to see the Sixers to win and have players maximize their talents. I think Iggy and thad could lggy could play well together, but I would rather see one of them at the 3 and a prototypical SG at the 2. I'm really not a homer for players becuase in a decade their will be a new set of players but the franchise will still be the Sixers.

Mojo, would you not trade Thad for a comparable player at SG or C.

What is comparable? Comparable to Thad at the positions you want would be a SG or C who is very early 20's, athletic scorer who is a willing defender with high character & work ethic. And, you need that SG to be a bonafide sniper from the jump. There are very few, if any, players in the league that fit that mold. Possibly OJ Mayo? That is a strawman, especially because there is no such thing as a "prototypical" off-guard & your argument presumes that Dala and Thad cannot thrive together. Lacking superior marksmanship from deep is not an automatic disqualifier for the spot, especially when you consider the other things Dala brings to the table. Meanwhile, Thad is a just over-drinking-age baller who improved his percentage while increasing his quantity by a large amount. He shot nearly 40% from deep at home. So, if Thad shoots upper-30s from deep(probable), and Lou(or Jrue) can shoot mid-to-upper 30s(Possible), the team will be fine, no matter what Dala shoots. Would I love it if Dala can shoot Kapono-level? Sure, but it is not necessary.

[radrmd216]

Not necessary for what? Do you want the Sixers to be a winning team or do you want them to win a championship. It sounds like you don;t want to trade had in any deal. Some people view him as a player with franchise player potential, but I do not. I think he can be an all star, but he is no where near untouchable. If Iggy and Thad do not mesh very well this season one has to be traded then. I assuem Thad will have a very good season and next year he will still be on his rokkie contract so his value will probably be high. I would rather trade Iggy, but I don't think he would have as much trade value. Sometimes a risk needs to be taken. I would trade Thad if I had to get a center with a lot of potential.

[UptownPhilly]

I'd trade Thad in a hot second for a good player that fits our needs(a SG like Mayo or good young center like Bynum) and puts us in a position to win. His value is probably ok at this point, but if he manages to average 17+ ppg this season he should be one of the most attractive players possibly on the trade block.

[radrmd216]

I agree with that Roletagg. As fans we must not be tied to our own players when thinking about moves to make the Sixers better. I'm not suggesting to trade Thad right now, but when his value his very high that might be the best move the the Sixers. I'm looking foward to seeign Thad and Iggy together this season in the Princeton Offense and I think thy can do well, but I think there could be better fits and iggy is harder to trade.

This is very early, but there is supposed to be some very good big men prospects this draft, so maybe trading Thad for top pick can be a good move depending on the trade. I just don;t like the idea that thad is untouchable. I would say only a handful of players are untouchable. Maybe Thad plays so great this year and his game expands so much that it will be foolish to trade him, but its hard for me too see him become a player of that caliber. I would love for Thad to show franchise level player potential, but I don't think he will ever be that good. Very few players are.

[Mojo7]

Not necessary for what? Do you want the Sixers to be a winning team or do you want them to win a championship. It sounds like you don;t want to trade had in any deal. Some people view him as a player with franchise player potential, but I do not. I think he can be an all star, but he is no where near untouchable. If Iggy and Thad do not mesh very well this season one has to be traded then. I assuem Thad will have a very good season and next year he will still be on his rokkie contract so his value will probably be high. I would rather trade Iggy, but I don't think he would have as much trade value. Sometimes a risk needs to be taken. I would trade Thad if I had to get a center with a lot of potential.

You don't think he has franchise potential, so that is where we differ. Thad's potential ceiling is highly efficient mid 20s scorer with plus defense, capable of scoring from inside and outside, at least. A nice natural complement to Iguodala's playmaking, which is the only thing Thad really lacks right now, other then experience.

How many young centers with a lot of potential are out there? Maybe 3 or 4? Howard, Bynum & maybe Lopez or Oden? The only one who might be available for Thad is Lopez, but Jersey just drafted for a small forward anyway, no fit. You are talking trade for no real reason besides a talent clash that has not happened yet, and likely will not happen, since their skill sets actually mesh. Dala is a natural playmaker while Thad is a natural scorer, there is no conflict.

Bottomline, if you are moving Thad, there better be some serious, serious value coming back.

As I said before, Those two just need time and the right pieces around them. And since one is 21 and the other is 25, there is no rush.

[radrmd216]

Why extra talent? What if a Thad could be tarded for another player of about equal ability. Forgetting about names, if a team had a SF and a SF with a lot of potential (player A) would it make sense to trade for comparable talent at SG (player B) or C (player C).

I think Kobe, Lebron, Wade, Howard, Duncan, and Paul are franchises players. There might be a few other, but they are borderline so I did not mention them. I do not think Thad will get to that level. Maybe a thread could be made about it to se what the board thinks. If Thad played for another team would you say that he has franchise player potential. As a Sixers fan I hope Thad can become a top 10-15 NBA player, but I don't think the odds are that great of that happening. Would you say Thad and Durant are on the same level. I hope I'm wrong on this and this time next year Thad is regared as one of the best up and coming players in the league.

[Dedicated_76ers_fan]

I think Thad is just as good. You play next to a guy like Iggy and Miller and still put up 15 PPG? Yeah, I think Young has alot of potential in the league. Then there's Positive and Negative scoring, or what Larry Brown would call "Playing the right way".

We all know the impact Thaddeus Young has on the game, or at least we should: How he crashes for rebounds and putbacks. How smooth he is around the rim. How he can size you up and score. Thaddeus Young brings POSITIVE acoring. And he said he was working on making plays for others. That's the kind of guy you wanna play with.

For Negative Scoring: Let me give you Jamal Crawford. Who'll be playing next to another chucker, ballhog terrible player(Josh Smith). Larry Brown truly had the worst back-court in the league with Marbury-Crawford. Crawford is a shoot first, second, third baller that brings no other dimensions to the game. Nice ball-handler but struggles to make use of his versatility.

With Jamal Crawford and Josh Smith in the same lineup with Joe Johnson(A go-to-guy). That team is going to STRUGGLE., It's not just building talent, it's building talent that meshes. It was hard enough to win ball games with a 6'8 chucker that plays no defense(blocks aside). But now your bringing in one of the worst 2 guards of the decade?

Trust me: Atlanta will FALTER. Then there's Mike Bibby, whose been on a vast decline and is now borderline mediocre. Our state is not as miserable and pathetic as the Hawks.

[philly262]

Thad needs to work on the defensive side of the ball now.

He still doesn't rebound enough for a guy with his size and athlethicsm.

I want Thad to try and get Antwan Jamison numbers. I really think Thad's potential sits somewhere between a healthy Jamal Mashburn and Antwan Jamison.

[tmoore]

Tom, if they had given him the QO as the only option last year (and lets say Andre takes that..which is unlikely) don't you think a team, with significant cap room like Portland, Memphis, Toronto, or maybe even Oklahoma City, would have made a huge offer for him? Since Portland and Toronto went hard after Hedo, I'm sure they would have been interested in Iguodala too.

You would have run the risk of losing him for nothing since he would have been an UFA this year. Sure we could still offer him the most by adding the 6th year, but it's likely Andre would have been upset at the franchise and bolted for a nice young team like Portland.

As it turns out, nobody got a big offer -- thanks in large part to the economy. What does it tell you that Carlos Boozer and Mehmet Okur declined to opt out after saying they were going to do so? Portland could've gone after Iguodala, but only had $7.5 million available to start, unless it would've been a sign-and-trade.

My point is the Sixers consistently overpay to retain their own FA (from Mutombo to Snow to Iguodala) and have for more than a decade. Iguodala could've gone elsewhere, but the Sixers were able to offer more than anybody else. Make someone else set the bar and go from there, rather than giving him a substantial raise (from the QO of five years, $57 mill) after the playoff series he had against the Pistons in 2007-8. Players almost always go where the most money is and that still would've been Philly.

[tmoore]

The irony is I heard Iguodala and his agent wanted $60 million over five years in Oct. 2007, while King would "only" go to $57 mill. The two sides were only $3 mill apart.

[SixersfutureGM]

^^^ Tom, I just died a little bit inside hearing about how the one time BK would not hand out money for free turned around and killed this team. BK continues to haunt us somehow.

[tmoore]

^^^ Tom, I just died a little bit inside hearing about how the one time BK would not hand out money for free turned around and killed this team. BK continues to haunt us somehow.

For those who say he always overpaid, here is evidence to the contrary -- though it would've eventually saved the Sixers millions had he done it. Must say I thought $57 mill was more than a fair offer at the time.

[youngcrev]

Tom, Portland had team options on both Travis Outlaw and Steve Blake for this season, so they could of freed up plenty of money to make a huge offer to Iguodala.

[The Sixer Fixer]

Tom, if they had given him the QO as the only option last year (and lets say Andre takes that..which is unlikely) don't you think a team, with significant cap room like Portland, Memphis, Toronto, or maybe even Oklahoma City, would have made a huge offer for him? Since Portland and Toronto went hard after Hedo, I'm sure they would have been interested in Iguodala too.

You would have run the risk of losing him for nothing since he would have been an UFA this year. Sure we could still offer him the most by adding the 6th year, but it's likely Andre would have been upset at the franchise and bolted for a nice young team like Portland.

As it turns out, nobody got a big offer -- thanks in large part to the economy. What does it tell you that Carlos Boozer and Mehmet Okur declined to opt out after saying they were going to do so? Portland could've gone after Iguodala, but only had $7.5 million available to start, unless it would've been a sign-and-trade.

My point is the Sixers consistently overpay to retain their own FA (from Mutombo to Snow to Iguodala) and have for more than a decade. Iguodala could've gone elsewhere, but the Sixers were able to offer more than anybody else. Make someone else set the bar and go from there, rather than giving him a substantial raise (from the QO of five years, $57 mill) after the playoff series he had against the Pistons in 2007-8. Players almost always go where the most money is and that still would've been Philly.

This whole situation is speculation, but I think Iguodala would have clearly been the best UFA on the market this year. He's 25 compared to Hedo who's 30. Young teams with cap space (like OKC or Memphis) probably would have had some serious interest in Andre if he was on the market. Portland would have had interest as well and I could have seen them clearing more cap space (beyond the 7.5 mil) to make a run at him. Since he wouldn't have been a RFA they would not have had to take the risk in cutting guys (the partially guaranteed contracts they had) only to find out the Sixers matched the deal. Sixers would have had no shot to match.

Also, I'm not sure those teams would have had to have that much more cap space to get him. Heck, the Sixers are one of the teams NOT spending this year. How do we know they offer him a contract as big as they did last offseason (I don't think there's any question the offer would have been for less if he was a FA this year). If he gets an offer from the Sixers slightly higher than he got somewhere else, I could easily seem him bolting on principal (heck, Brand did that exact same thing last year taking less from us than he could have received elsewhere). The most money does not always win. I think a young/talented team like Portland would have been VERY attractive to Andre (more than Philly). I just think the scenario you laid out would have been extreemly dangerous. Could you imagine the backlash from the fans if you offer the QO, he hit FA and left for nothing. OMG, there would be outrage.

I do agree with you that the Sixers overpaid for players in the past though. Truth is most teams do that with any player they really want to keep. It's just the way it is in the league. Give credit to the agents...they must be painting a very scary screen to GM's where the player leaves.

[Mojo7]

Why extra talent? What if a Thad could be tarded for another player of about equal ability. Forgetting about names, if a team had a SF and a SF with a lot of potential (player A) would it make sense to trade for comparable talent at SG (player B) or C (player C).

I think Kobe, Lebron, Wade, Howard, Duncan, and Paul are franchises players. There might be a few other, but they are borderline so I did not mention them. I do not think Thad will get to that level. Maybe a thread could be made about it to se what the board thinks. If Thad played for another team would you say that he has franchise player potential. As a Sixers fan I hope Thad can become a top 10-15 NBA player, but I don't think the odds are that great of that happening. Would you say Thad and Durant are on the same level. I hope I'm wrong on this and this time next year Thad is regared as one of the best up and coming players in the league.

Thad is already regarded as one of the best up & coming players in the league(hence his selection to the Team USA Select minicamp). Even if he played for another team, I would say the same. I will admit that because I got to see him play every game, I have a better appreciation for the subtleties of his game then if I only saw him periodically. Thad is probably a notch below Durant, but I'd love to see what Thad can do with more consistent touches.

About this comparable thing, you keep holding out a hypothetical, even the actual would be a rare commodity that most teams would not be interested in trading anyway. Plus, you consider Dala as only a 3, I don't.