Getting the Jays out of the AL East.

chargerxthirty · Post #1 » by **chargerxthirty** » Fri Aug 7, 2009 12:32 am

I'm beginning to wonder if we couldn't make a "trade" ...

Perhaps there are some teams that would be interested in our position as an AL East team.

A few suggestions would be the Washington Nationals or the Florida Marlins. The N.L. East is a division that the Jays would have a shot @ winning.

The Marlins
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For the Marlins, it would be an opportunity to firstly, get to use an extra batter, a concept most owners, gm's and managers will love. Although Josh Johnson can handle the bat pretty well, it would allow them to keep assets like himself out of the batters box and protect their asset, while utilizing an extra player who may otherwise be on the bench. It would also allow them to join in a division with the Tampa Bay Rays and perhaps form a rivalry within Florida probably increasing interest in both teams and allowing a subway series. At the same time, the Marlins can hear a pin drop in their stadium presently... so considering they'd be hosting 20 games a year between the Yankees and the Sox, it'sdefinately going to help them at the gate because those are huge gates. Produce some money and get some crowds in the stadium.

The Nationals
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Although the Nationals have a lot less crowd issues, it's not like they're a big draw. But again, it would allow them to protect assets on the mound and keep them out of the box. Guys like Strasburg who will surely be here soon. Another hitter in the lineup can never hurt. The Yankees and Red Sox gates 20 times a year will again play a factor as.... that would most likely be 20 sellouts a year in Washington. Finally, rivalry mode again.... Baltimore and Washington would have the opportunity to form a bitter rivalry playing in the same division. Can't be nothing like a rivalry in the nations capital. Oh, and imagine Adam Dunn getting the opportunity to launch balls @ pesky's pole at the short porch in boston. Or the ridiculously stupid launching pad at Yankee stadium to right field 20 times a year.

I think that those team are the most eligible suitors to take on a spot in the AL East. It's not like they are winning else where. But the point is, they have a lot of different incentives to go there.

Speaking of incentive..... theres only one needed in Toronto these days.

Toronto
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The Jays would benefit deeply from this, sure we're going to lose some guaranteed revenue from the yankees and bosox, but thats also shedding a whole bunch of losses on the record, and a whole bunch of inferiority as far as payroll disadvantage goes. I'm not the biggest fan of the pitcher hitting, but knowing that we are deep in pitching, it will only help their numbers. Let's get one thing straight, Toronto is a huge Metropolitan market. We don't need the Yankees and and Bosox. We're the 5th largest sports market in North America, getting a chance to play in a reasonable division, a division we would have won several times in the past 15 years, that would generate the revenue back anyways because if we were a top contender in baseball, our fans would be back on board in a heartbeat. It gives the opportunity to build a winning tradition again.

Thats my 2 cents.... Anybody got opinions?

zilby · Post #2 » by **zilby** » Fri Aug 7, 2009 12:42 am

as much as i wish and pray that the jays can escape the wrath called "AL East" it won't happen.

Modern_epic · Post #3 » by **Modern_epic** » Fri Aug 7, 2009 12:55 am

I really don't think the Natinals are a possibility. I think if there is any chance of this happening, it would be the Marlins (the idea of playing the Sox and Yanks has to appeal to Loria) or maybe the 'stros (who pop into the AL West). But I don't think there is.

J-Roc · Post #4 » by **J-Roc** » Fri Aug 7, 2009 1:19 am

Whether or not it ever happens, I want ownership with the balls to demand for it. We can't have an owner that doesn't complain about the AL East, but a GM that whines about it. Doesn't add up.

Avenger · Post #5 » by **Avenger** » Fri Aug 7, 2009 2:39 am

Yeah, i don't understand why no one in the organization is fighting to get us out this division. I understand we make some money when the Sox and Yankees come to town but we would probably get way more attendance if we consistently win 90 games and make the playoffs which is quite possible if we can get out of this division

Post #6 » by **Schad** » Fri Aug 7, 2009 2:59 am

Avenger wrote:Yeah, i don't understand why no one in the organization is fighting to get us out this division. I understand we make some money when the Sox and Yankees come to town but we would probably get way more attendance if we consistently win 90 games and make the playoffs which is quite possible if we can get out of this division

They aren't fighting for it because it isn't going to happen. MLB would NEVER allow two teams to swap divisions purely for financial/competitiveness issues...it would have to be on the back of one team's relocation or further expansion (which ain't gonna happen, either).

Modern_epic · Post #7 » by **Modern_epic** » Fri Aug 7, 2009 3:36 am

Schadenfreude wrote:
Avenger wrote:Yeah, i don't understand why no one in the organization is fighting to get us out this division. I understand we make some money when the Sox and Yankees come to town but we would probably get way more attendance if we consistently win 90 games and make the playoffs which is quite possible if we can get out of this division

They aren't fighting for it because it isn't going to happen. MLB would NEVER allow two teams to swap divisions purely for financial/competitiveness issues...it would have to be on the back of one team's relocation or further expansion (which ain't gonna happen, either).

See, I'm not sure this is true. I could see them hiding a Marlins or Astros move in wanting to develop a strong regional rivalry or some such terms. The 'stros move having the added bonus of leaving 4 teams in the most ridiculous division in baseball...

Post #8 » by **Schad** » Fri Aug 7, 2009 3:51 am

Modern_epic wrote:See, I'm not sure this is true. I could see them hiding a Marlins or Astros move in wanting to develop a strong regional rivalry or some such terms. The 'stros move having the added bonus of leaving 4 teams in the most ridiculous division in baseball...

I still don't see it, because it's something to which league owners would need to agree. Toronto doesn't pull fans on the road...unless they thought that the Marlins would surpass the Jays going forward (and with Loria, every player is only a couple years from their sell-by date) the Mets/Phils/Braves wouldn't want the introduction of another team that could conceivably challenge for a playoff spot and the revenues that go with. Half of the remaining owners would likely vote it down just because they stand to garner no tangible benefit...and I believe that such a move would require a supermajority it'd never achieve.

Post #9 » by **Geddy** » Fri Aug 7, 2009 3:53 am

Changing divisions isn't going to automatically make this team a contender. If we go to the NL East we'd still have to deal with the Phillies and Mets, both of which would still have a superior payroll than the Jays.

Also, the problem with the team isn't just the Yankees and the Red Sox. They aren't even beating teams which they should be beating, so you know the problems are more deeply rooted than just the division. Sadly the whole 'toughest division in baseball' thing has become an excuse for management to just shrug their shoulders and do nothing after every season without the playoffs.

squeekysneakers · Post #10 » by **squeekysneakers** » Fri Aug 7, 2009 4:05 am

The more likely scenario is that baseball adopt an 8 team per league playoff structure or at least modify it more than it already is (Possibly like the NFL). But, The league is run by traditionalists. The higher ups fear change and long for the days of Mickie Mantle and Babe Ruth. They were pushed into adding a wild card and changing the alignment of the AL and NL a few years ago despite other leagues moving far beyond them. Yet they are not against adding teams in markets that won't support them nor are they afraid to let the all-star game end in a tie. Don't even get me started on their state of the art drug policy that is 10 years too late. I imagine that many of the people that run baseball were against the internet at one point too.

The league is completely backwards. Until some of these old timers and traditionalists exit the decision making postions they are in there will not be change and the league will continue to flounder in markets like Toronto. It is sad but true. A team like the Jays should not have been missing the playoffs all these years when they had better records than teams that did make the playoffs but the league has let it happen and will continue to do so.

Modern_epic · Post #11 » by **Modern_epic** » Fri Aug 7, 2009 4:38 am

Schadenfreude wrote:
Modern_epic wrote:See, I'm not sure this is true. I could see them hiding a Marlins or Astros move in wanting to develop a strong regional rivalry or some such terms. The 'stros move having the added bonus of leaving 4 teams in the most ridiculous division in baseball...

I still don't see it, because it's something to which league owners would need to agree. Toronto doesn't pull fans on the road...unless they thought that the Marlins would surpass the Jays going forward (and with Loria, every player is only a couple years from their sell-by date) the Mets/Phils/Braves wouldn't want the introduction of another team that could conceivably challenge for a playoff spot and the revenues that go with. Half of the remaining owners would likely vote it down just because they stand to garner no tangible benefit...and I believe that such a move would require a supermajority it'd never achieve.

I see where you are coming from, but I also think having beaten the Phils and Braves in the World Series, those two may think they can make a rivalry out of it. A good rivalry team every year should be worth as much as the playoffs one in three, I would think.

Though again, I don't expect it to happen for a lot of reasons. I just think those two may be able to be convinced. And I would guess that if the other team realy wanted to do it, between the two teams they might have enough chips to pull in that the vote would go their way.

J-Roc · Post #12 » by **J-Roc** » Fri Aug 7, 2009 12:36 pm

I'm not trying to argue that a change of division would automatically put the Jays in the playoffs. The hope is the Jays would be in a a normal sports team cycle..rebuild, contend, rebuild contend. In this division the only hope is for a magical season where everything goes right. People wonder why the Jays are losing fans....it's because fans aren't stupid. If the team has no chance, we all know it to start the season. It's deflating.

As for whether a chance of divisions would ever happen.....it's fine if it doesn't happen. But make some noise. Let it be known that the Jays are not pleased with MLB's "system". Whether it's the AL East, maybe re-balancing the scheduling, maybe putting the high salaried teams in one division. Whatever...just be known as that team that is displeased with the situation. Then maybe...maybe the Orioles join in...the Rays when they go back to reality....maybe other loser teams like Kansas City and Pittsburgh (teams with no chance before the season even starts)...then maybe 10 years from now we see change.

In this current system, the Jays will continue to lose fans.

Test of Wills · Post #13 » by **Test of Wills** » Fri Aug 7, 2009 9:06 pm

Selig and the governors would never let it happen.

With all that's said the league needs to shake up the divisions.

SCF99 · Post #14 » by **SCF99** » Fri Aug 7, 2009 10:43 pm

this is a pretty far throw,,but it would sure pick up the intrest alot for a few years. The only commonly mentioned draw back is the gates we would lose when the yankees come to town. Maybe it would justmean that we would end up the other celler dwellers in the National league, low attendence small (smaller) crowds. It is getting very depressing though always looking up at those foxen yankees and now Red Sux, crist even the Rays seem like they will be power house for a few years to come,,,,, we would still have to somehow dump VW contract to be able to get enough players to compete nomatter which league or division we are in.

Raps in 4 · Post #15 » by **Raps in 4** » Sat Aug 8, 2009 12:50 am

I'm probably the only one who likes this division. It forces us to try to field the best possible team. There is no room for mediocrity in the AL East.

Natural11 · Post #16 » by **Natural11** » Sat Aug 8, 2009 1:56 am

squeekysneakers wrote:The more likely scenario is that baseball adopt an 8 team per league playoff structure or at least modify it more than it already is (Possibly like the NFL). But, The league is run by traditionalists. The higher ups fear change and long for the days of Mickie Mantle and Babe Ruth. They were pushed into adding a wild card and changing the alignment of the AL and NL a few years ago despite other leagues moving far beyond them. Yet they are not against adding teams in markets that won't support them nor are they afraid to let the all-star game end in a tie. Don't even get me started on their state of the art drug policy that is 10 years too late. I imagine that many of the people that run baseball were against the internet at one point too.

The league is completely backwards. Until some of these old timers and traditionalists exit the decision making postions they are in there will not be change and the league will continue to flounder in markets like Toronto. It is sad but true. A team like the Jays should not have been missing the playoffs all these years when they had better records than teams that did make the playoffs but the league has let it happen and will continue to do so.

You won the thread. MLB is clearly run by dinosaurs, who care more about tradition then their brand. With the recent drug scandals the league is just a joke right now. They have no clue how to deal with it, so they just do nothing. They need to take a page out of the NBA's or NFL's book and learn how to run a league in this century. The fact that there is no luxury cap after so many years of blatant big market stacking just goes to show that there really is no ambition at the top of MLB, just old farts afraid of change.

There is no good reason not to have a 16 team play-off. Smaller market teams would have an actual chance, popularity would increase, and ticket sales would follow. I hate to be a fairweather fan, but how does MLB expect me to be a Jays fan and customer when it's been 16 YEARS since the team has made the play-offs, with no real hope of it ever happening again. Honestly, even if the cards roll the right way for the Jays, BOS/NY will just roll out the cash mid-season and crush any slim hopes we thought we had. I have to imagine other fans feel the same way, in any number of 'small' markets. What kind of business model is this? It's pathetic.

Post #17 » by **Geddy** » Sat Aug 8, 2009 2:09 am

UssjTrunks wrote:I'm probably the only one who likes this division. It forces us to try to field the best possible team. There is no room for mediocrity in the AL East.

You can add me to the list of people who like this division.

J-Roc · Post #18 » by **J-Roc** » Sat Aug 8, 2009 3:29 am

It's hard to go to a 16 team playoff structure because players would need to agree to add more games to the season, or owners would have to agree to cut away games from the regular season. I'm not sure the last time a league cut the number of games in a season down.

Meanwhile, baseball is the best sport for 7 game series because they can play every day, unlike with hockey and basketball.

wicked_crossova · Post #19 » by **wicked_crossova** » Sat Aug 8, 2009 4:16 am

Scrap the NL and the AL and make a dam balanced schedule.I know no one will agree with me but thats my opinion.

Oh, and i would HATE if the Jays played in the National League...yuck.

J-Roc · Post #20 » by **J-Roc** » Sat Aug 8, 2009 2:29 pm

wicked_crossova wrote:Scrap the NL and the AL and make a dam balanced schedule.I know no one will agree with me but thats my opinion.

Oh, and i would HATE if the Jays played in the National League...yuck.

Actually the balanced schedule is the option most likely to ever occur. No extra games. Not extending the length of the season. Who knows how well it would work, though. Yanks and Sox would be winning 100 games every year.