Rashard suspended 10 games for steroids

[exculpatory]

Tony Montana

1) This is a lay board - not a forum for endocrinologists. My intention was not to provide an exhaustive treatise replete with "medicalese" on the dangers of the unapproved and inappropriate use of anabolic steroids and hGH. Rather, my intention was to provide a brief, general overview for non-physicians. These drugs are potentially dangerous.

2) I can assure you that the information that I provided in the OP is completely accurate.

3) I cannot tell you exactly when these adverse effects will occur in a given individual after the inappropriate use of anabolic steroids and hGH, but I can tell you unquestionably and undoubtedly that the larger the dose and the longer you ingest it, the more likely these adverse effects will occur. In other words, months or years of abuse is more likely to result in these adverse effects than several weeks or days. Furthermore, the time to onset of these adverse effects may vary from individual to individual.

4) Regarding hGH specifically, I provided a reference in an outstanding peer-reviewed journal (Annals of Internal Medicine, January 2007 issue - published by an excellent group at Stanford University). The authors of this reference focused on the inappropriate use of hGH as an anti-aging therapy; after reviewing all relevant, properly conducted, placebo controlled, randomized, double blind studies for the last 20 years or so, they concluded that treatment of the elderly with hGH is MINIMALLY BENEFICIAL regarding increase in lean muscle mass and decrease in fat mass, and may result in the serious adverse effects described in the OP. This reference is easy to find in PUBMED.Gov. I suggest that you read it. If you have questions afterwards, feel free to ask me.

5) There is much less published information regarding the use of hGH for athletic enhancement regarding efficacy/effectiveness. However, once again, if an athlete took a large dose of hGH for a substantial period of time, he indeed would be at risk for the same adverse effects as an elderly patient using it in an attempt to diminish the aging process.

6) For the record, hGH is only approved in the United States for the treatment of properly diagnosed adult growth hormone deficiency due to organic disease (e.g., pituitary tumors, cranial irradiation, severe head trauma), wasting associated with AIDS, and the short bowel syndrome.

Ex

[exculpatory]

Addendum to previous post to Tony Montana:

My previous 2 posts refer to adults only. For completeness, hGH is also appropriately prescribed to children with 8 different forms of short stature by pediatric endocrinologists.

[IEcelticfan]

can he be suspended for another 3 gms??? =D

[rambo_ortega]

i also thought it was rasheed.. i got nervous for a second there....

anyways, rahard was killing us in the playoffs esp game 7 where he played 40mins.. hope that the drug he used wasn't affecting his performance in that game coz i hate the feeling of being robbed. esp with us playing with a fight even without kg.

[IamaCeltsfan]

The only surprising thing about this story is that it wasn't Dwight Howard.

I wouldn't be surprised if Jameer Nelson is juicing too. You don't heal from that type of injury that fast. My bet is that their personal trainer is supplying the whole entire team with roids and Rashard is the first domino to fall. Stan Van Gundy will do anything to win and nothing he does will surprise me anymore. He is a punk that should be banished from the NBA. This is a disgrace to the league and it tarnishes what the Orlando Magic* accomplished last season. Without the roids this year, the Magic will be lucky to even make the playoffs.

[ryan in Maine]

Come on. It's freaking DHEA. Should be a slap on the wrist at best.

Zero tolerance strikes again.

[John Locke]

CalderCup,

I laughed out loud...that was way too funny.

Keep on postin man.

[mr_sunshine]

It's an OTC the drug that happened to have a banned substance in it. The guy owned up to and is serving his suspension. That's more than can be said for some caught using PEDs. This is getting blown way out of proportion IMO.

[Kefa461]

I wonder how blown up it would be if it was KG.........

[ryan in Maine]

KG gets regular transfusions of lion blood.

[wetsthebed]

Is Tony Montana a juicehead?

Hmm...

[TonyMontana]

1) This is a lay board - not a forum for endocrinologists.

Sorry but I didnt come on here and post that I am a endocrinologists, you did. So you automatically let the posters know that you not only have a good amount of knowledge on this subject but you are an expert on this subject and it is one of your fields of experitse.

Also I know that this is not a forum for endocrinologists, but it is a very touchy subject that was posted on this board (realgm) etc, and there are a large amount of posters that have no clue or idea about this subject.

My intention was not to provide an exhaustive treatise replete with "medicalese" on the dangers of the unapproved and inappropriate use of anabolic steroids and hGH. Rather, my intention was to provide a brief, general overview for non-physicians. These drugs are potentially dangerous.

And I didnt question that part, but I felt that your post was and is very misleading specially since you focused on the dangers and the side effect of anabolic steriods and growth, not the positive effects of it.

2) I can assure you that the information that I provided in the OP is completely accurate.

Again I never questioned the information was wrong but it wasnt complete.

3) I cannot tell you exactly when these adverse effects will occur in a given individual after the inappropriate use of anabolic steroids and hGH,

I agree but you summed up your entire post by claiming a few side effects that can happen with basically any drug out there if IT IS ABUSED. Same could be said about alchohol, Codeine, clonazepam, Naprosyn etc....... or any drugs that is abused or misused. True?

but I can tell you unquestionably and undoubtedly that the larger the dose and the longer you ingest it, the more likely these adverse effects will occur. In other words, months or years of abuse is more likely to result in these adverse effects than several weeks or days. Furthermore, the time to onset of these adverse effects may vary from individual to individual.

Again the same could be said about every form of drugs out there.

4) Regarding hGH specifically, I provided a reference in an outstanding peer-reviewed journal (Annals of Internal Medicine, January 2007 issue - published by an excellent group at Stanford University). The authors of this reference focused on the inappropriate use of hGH as an anti-aging therapy; after reviewing all relevant, properly conducted, placebo controlled, randomized, double blind studies for the last 20 years or so, they concluded that treatment of the elderly with hGH is MINIMALLY BENEFICIAL regarding increase in lean muscle mass and decrease in fat mass, and may result in the serious adverse effects described in the OP. This reference is easy to find in PUBMED.Gov. I suggest that you read it. If you have questions afterwards, feel free to ask me.

Thank you for your suggestion, but Iam pretty knowledgable on this subject, well enough that your statement on growth as you put it "MINIMALLY BENEFICIAL regarding increase in lean muscle mass" as you put it is false and a lot of studies has proven that your pancreas does releases the amount of insulin necessary to transform carbohydrates into glucose and that your body then stores this glucose in fat cells and uses it for energy. Also isnt true that Growth hormone induced IGF-1 prevents insulin from storing this glucose in cells, therefore forcing your body to burn and transform the fat for energy?
Also your touching one part of the positive effects of growth and you keep repeating that it is an anti aging drug when it is also provides better cardiac output, it also lowers your blood pressure, better immune function, raises your sexual performance, improves cholesterol, reduced your body fat, raises your energy levels, it supports stronger bones, it can provide you younger, tighter, thicker skin, as mentioned erlier it increased muscle mass, cleaner leaner muscle mass, and one of the the best effects is it regeneration of major organs that shrink with age.

So again its not just an anti aging drug, and also when prescribed correctly or in this case where you claimed that growth is used by athletes, which I might add athletes over 30 since we both know that growth cant really help athletes or anyone under 30 years old since people under 30s body builds a good, sufficiant amount of growth on its own do use it correctly with sufficiant doses and at the sametime having their blood works checked on time, then this drug can actually be controled and have a lot of positive effects for that athlete. True?

4)5) There is much less published information regarding the use of hGH for athletic enhancement regarding efficacy/effectiveness. However, once again, if an athlete took a large dose of hGH for a substantial period of time, he indeed would be at risk for the same adverse effects as an elderly patient using it in an attempt to diminish the aging process.

Again anything no matter what it is is abused or misused can have the same effect, so this is where I keep saying that your information is false and misleading, since I mentioned above. If growth is used correctly and you stay consistant with you lab and blood works then it is one of the best performance drugs out there for AGAIN athletes/people over the age of 30.

6) For the record, hGH is only approved in the United States for the treatment of properly diagnosed adult growth hormone deficiency due to organic disease (e.g., pituitary tumors, cranial irradiation, severe head trauma), wasting associated with AIDS, and the short bowel syndrome.

Really?????? Ha I thought it was also used for patients that have memory retention and cognitive functions loss, as well as excessive fatigue and in some cases sexual performance. I can swear I can call up my doctor and tell him that Im having a hard time sleeping and I feel very tired when I wake up in the morning and I can walk into his office and get my lab work done and walk out of his office with a prescirption of growth in a matter of hours.

[TonyMontana]

Is Tony Montana a juicehead?

Hmm...

What gave you guys that idea??? Cause I know a few things about it.
Thats why I questioned exculpatory remarks, since if he claims he is a specialist in this issue then why is he misleading people instead of educating people on the pros and cons of P.E.D instead of sitting there and misleading people about its purpose and what it can do if it is used correctly even if it isnt perscribed by a doctor.

You guys would be amazed that even junior high school students know more about P.E.D than 90% of the posters on realgm.

[DorfonCeltics]

Tony

If I give you my address can you send me some of that HGH? My skin needs some tightening.

[TonyMontana]

Tony

If I give you my address can you send me some of that HGH? My skin needs some tightening.

......... Brah it is so easy to get hold of growth (black market) you can actually order it online, but I wouldnt recommend it. Also exculpatory made a lot of good points but it was inaccurate and incomplete too.

I know people in their 40s 50s and 60s that have a lot of money and they get growth prescibed to them like if they were taking sleeping pills, but they go through all the right channels and it is monitored by their doctors and prescribed by their doctors.

It is very expensive though, I mean a six month cycle of legit growth can cost up to 30 to 50 thousand dollars by the time all your blood works and visits are done and over with, and believe me you dont really see that much of a result by one cycle.

I also know bodybuilders that use growth, NOT BY ITSELF THOUGH, ONLY if they stack it or pyramid it with other roids, and THATS when you see results specially when your over 30 years old.

[exculpatory]

Tony Montana

Your last post indicates that you know nothing about the impact of GH and IGF-1 on carbohydrate, fat and protein metabolism. A litte tidbit for you: Treatment with hGH in supraphysiologic amounts is DIABETOGENIC - IT RAISES BLOOD GLUCOSE because it stimulates hepatic glucose output, and because it stimulates lipolysis which releases free fatty acids which result in insulin resistance.

You have also confused the inappropriate/unapproved use of hGH as an anti-aging therapy and the inappropriate/unapproved use of hGH for athletic enhancement. I referred you to the best review ever written on the former subject in a world-renowned journal, and you say that "you know enough". Unreal. You are embarrassing yourself.

You doubt the approved uses of hGH? Pick up the label/package insert for any of the approved hGH products in America and read it. Furthermore, any doc who prescribes hGH for unapproved indications where risk exceeds benefit (such as anti-aging and performance enhancement), is practicing uninformed, very bad medicine. Unfortunately, a few such docs do indeed exist, but not at respected, high quality medical centers.

Lastly, this DIALOG IS OFFICIALLY OVER. When you get your MD, get board certified in Endocrinology and Metabolism, become a Professor of Medicine, and practice Endocrinology and Internal Medicine at large medical centers, come chat with me again. You are way, way, way out of your league. I was patient with you up until now and tried to teach you a few things, but your time is up.

[TonyMontana]

Tony Montana

Your last post indicates that you know nothing about the impact of GH and IGF-1 on carbohydrate, fat and protein metabolism. A litte tidbit for you: Treatment with hGH in supraphysiologic amounts is DIABETOGENIC - IT RAISES BLOOD GLUCOSE because it stimulates hepatic glucose output, and because it stimulates lipolysis which releases free fatty acids which result in insulin resistance.

Please Im not the one that claimed to be an MD, get board certified in Endocrinology and Metabolism, become a Professor of Medicine, and practice Endocrinology and Internal Medicine at large medical centers
LMAO, so you came in here and drop some medical terms to prove what........ The samething I said I think thats why I said if it is monitored by a doctors and your blood works you can actually see good results with Growth if it is monitored by a doctor by your blood test and blood count.

You have also confused the inappropriate/unapproved use of hGH as an anti-aging therapy and the inappropriate/unapproved use of hGH for athletic enhancement.

Putting aside my celtic hat and my Paul Pierce jersey, and speaking as an experienced endocrinologist:
2) Human growth hormone (hGH) is also abused as you all know. Detection is more difficult, but is improving every day. If anyone wants to hear more gory medical details about the pros and cons of the inappropriate use of hGH in the prevention of aging, or for athletic enhancement, please indicate same, and I will provide a short summary. In short, in particular with regard to the use of hGH to prevent aging, the answer is very clear today - MINIMAL BENEFIT AND SIGNIFICANT RISK (including the precipitation of diabetes mellitus/impaired glucose tolerance, and fluid retention resulting in edema, carpal tunnel syndrome, and aggravated hypertenstion, etc.

Wait what the hell does this mean, you keep repeating the inappropriate/unapproved use of growth. WHAT ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT???? inappropriate/unapproved. You claimed that usage of GROWTH has MINIMAL BENEFIT AND SIGNIFICANT RISK. Did you or did you not say that?
If so and this is your post then how in gods name is growth used for if it has MINIMAL BENEFITS??

I referred you to the best review ever written on the former subject in a world-renowned journal, and you say that "you know enough". Unreal. You are embarrassing yourself.

No your emberassing yourself claiming to have expertise in this subject yet you come on here and claim both of Roids and Growth have MINIMAL BENEFIT AND SIGNIFICANT RISK and misled people to believe that you actually know about this subject, when you dont.

You doubt the approved uses of hGH? Pick up the label/package insert for any of the approved hGH products in America and read it.

Furthermore, any doc who prescribes hGH for unapproved indications where risk exceeds benefit (such as anti-aging and performance enhancement), is practicing uninformed, very bad medicine. Unfortunately, a few such docs do indeed exist, but not at respected, high quality medical centers.

Wait wait wait........ this is where you are actually embarrassing yourself.
The amount of money spent by people on Growth whether its by a wealthy man who wants to stay young or feel better when he wakes up in the morning or a F.H.O.F baseball player who wants to heal quicker and come back from ACL injuries so he can get on the mound or a any professional player coming off an injury trying to get back at his game and all the risk YOU CLAIM that they take and you claim that these doctors practicing uninformed, bad medicine. WOOOOW.
Tell me something DOC has there ever been any cases of a doctor with a medical malpractice lawsuit EVER I mean EVER for prescribing Growth to ANYYYYYYYYYBODY in the world legal or illegal???
Has there????

Lastly, this DIALOG IS OFFICIALLY OVER. When you get your MD, get board certified in Endocrinology and Metabolism, become a Professor of Medicine, and practice Endocrinology and Internal Medicine at large medical centers, come chat with me again.

Oh and I suppose you are an MD and a Professor of Medicine and you work form Boston Medical Center. Do you Doc???


See I never claimed to be a Endocrinology, you did. Im just an ordinary Joe that apparently knows more than you, since I have provided my reasons behing why I felt your inforamtion was misleading and wrong but all you did was come on here and huff and puff and threw a couple of medical terms (which I already pointed out on my earlier reply to you) and yelled and screamed and claimed that IM NOT AN MD BALHHH BLAHHH but you still havent comeup with any valid point to prove me wrong in any of my replies and YOUR THE DOCTOR.

You are way, way, way out of your league. I was patient with you up until now and tried to teach you a few things, but your time is up.

Patient with me??? Tried to teach meeeeeee ???? Doc Im self taught in this subject so much that I know my own test level is at 8.7-25.1 picogram/mL. I know that my DHEA level is around 510. What else would you like to know Doc?

No disrespect to the Cs board but NOW Im done with you Doc.
Take care.

Sorry Mods I was actually thought he had something positive to share with us but I was wrong.

[SeizeCoup]

When I was in highschool we experimented with (IMO) much more interesting drugs.

[doozyj]

If some performance enhancing supplements have been developed which don't have horrible side effects- which I believe has been the case- why not just make them legal? Nutrition and weight-lifting are "performance enhancing", so what makes 'salmon and mashed potatoes' different from 'drugs that have minimal side effects'?

LOL. Great post, quote worthy!

[sweatdog]

When I was in highschool we experimented with (IMO) much more interesting drugs.

oh snap where can i get my hands on some IMO? Stuff sounds killer is it the stuff they make IMHO with?