Hoopsworld: Davis has 4 year offer from C's

[greenmachine_2849]

Why do people think Davis has more value then 2.5 million a year?

This guy isn't an impact player and on a team paying three max contracts and closing in on having to pay both Kendrick Perkins and Rajon Rondo soon. As such Danny Ainge can't afford to over pay expendable pieces and that is what Davis is.

If Ainge wouldn't do it for a far better player in James Posey, why the hell would he do it for Davis?

Yeah, and Ainge also thought Tony Allen would be able to step right in and fill James Posey's role last season. As it turned out, not having James Posey on the roster probably cost the Celtics the series against the Magic. Anyway, Ainge has had a LOT of misjudgments during his tenure as Celtics general manager in terms of the worth of a given player, so I am not going to take Ainge's assessment of Davis' value (if he even truly believes he is worth only $2.5 million a year) without a grain of salt.

Davis has been overrated by some of our fans because they've judged him on being reasonably solid when playing with our stars in place of KG. Well the Celtics were obviously not fooled going so far as to pay about 12 million a year counting the luxtax to ensure they weren't stuck with Davis in that role again.

Maybe. Or maybe they wanted to have four quality big men on the roster so that they aren't counting on the likes of Mikki Moore and Brian Scalabrine to play 15-20 mpg at PF/C in the playoffs if Garnett or Perkins go down again. A three man big-man rotation of Wallace/Perkins/Davis is still pretty formidable even if Garnett has to miss the second round of the playoffs next year. A three man rotation of Wallace/Perkins/S. Williams or Wallace/Perkins/Scalabrine? Not much better than the Perkins/Davis/Scalabrine rotation we had during the second round last year, imo.

Anything over 2-3 million a year and we'd be stuck with Davis for the length of that contract, if they keep it reasonable he remains a trade asset. In all likely hood that is what they truly want to retain him for.

Yeah, I love how people are saying that Davis deserves less money than Brian Scalabrine. You switch positions with Davis and Scalabrine in the 1st round of the playoffs (i.e., start Scalabrine and play him 40 mpg against Chicago), and we would have probably been eliminated in six games. It's a joke.

[GuyClinch]

Yeah, I love how people are saying that Davis deserves less money than Brian Scalabrine. You switch positions with Davis and Scalabrine in the 1st round of the playoffs (i.e., start Scalabrine and play him 40 mpg against Chicago), and we would have probably been eliminated in six games. It's a joke.

No the joke is the agent want-to-be's on this board think we should balance everything around the worst contracts in the league. Rondo is worth Max because Hinrich gets 9 million. BBD is worth 5.6 because Scalabrine gets 3 million.

That's NOT how it works. This line of thinking reminds me of the housing market. So you had a house that was worth 1 million and now its worth 500k. Maybe the market CORRECTED itselt. Its the same deal with BBD. Maybe GMs decided that jump shooting short "big men" aren't worth 5.6 million!

Pete

[Celts17Pride]

No the joke is the agent want-to-be's on this board think we should balance everything around the worst contracts in the league. Rondo is worth Max because Hinrich gets 9 million. BBD is worth 5.6 because Scalabrine gets 3 million.

Don't forget that Marquis Daniels should get at least $10 M because Jeffries is making $6.5 M in NY and Kendrick Perkins should be getting $15 M because Dalembert is making $11.5 M in Philly.

[enzino]

The Celtics are rumored to have a four-year, $10 million offer on the table.

Link: http://www.hoopsworld.com/Story.asp?STORY_ID=13502

Since it is hoopsworld it is probably just a made up rumor...

I doubt this is true. 2,5 mio per year is low for Big Baby and he can definitely get a little more from other teams. If we give him 4 year 12 mio with 4th year as TO that would be a good deal for both parties,IMO...

I think C's have the right to match any other offer on the table

[greenmachine_2849]

Yeah, I love how people are saying that Davis deserves less money than Brian Scalabrine. You switch positions with Davis and Scalabrine in the 1st round of the playoffs (i.e., start Scalabrine and play him 40 mpg against Chicago), and we would have probably been eliminated in six games. It's a joke.

No the joke is the agent want-to-be's on this board think we should balance everything around the worst contracts in the league. Rondo is worth Max because Hinrich gets 9 million. BBD is worth 5.6 because Scalabrine gets 3 million.

That's NOT how it works. This line of thinking reminds me of the housing market. So you had a house that was worth 1 million and now its worth 500k. Maybe the market CORRECTED itselt. Its the same deal with BBD. Maybe GMs decided that jump shooting short "big men" aren't worth 5.6 million!

Pete

How about "big men" that can step in when a hall-of-fame big man goes down for the season, plays roughly the same amount of minutes as that hall-of-fame big man (31.6 mpg for Davis versus 31.1 mpg for Garnett), and the team, winning percentage-wise, does not miss a beat (17-4 in games where Davis played and Garnett did not). You can throw around all the insults at Davis' playing style you want (and you're a Rembrandt at that), but obviously he was able to get the job done better than anyone could have realistically hoped for.

Yeah, I don't recall the Nets' general manager back in 2005 threatening to match any offer that a team made to Brian Scalabrine (and Ainge still offered three times what New Jersey later said they were willing to offer, which is one of life's great mysteries). Which is what Davis is currently facing with the Celtics management. You hear of teams trying to work out a sign-and-trade with the Celtics regarding Davis, so obviously there is interest in him. But then the Celtics ask for an arm and a leg in trade (i.e., Yi from the Nets), and suddenly the interest disappears. It is like an owner that puts a house on the market at a ridiculously high price (by stating they will match virtually ANY free agent offer on Davis and/or insisting, in signs-and-trades, that the other team throws in players that they know will be deal breakers) but then claim that they really do want to sell the house. It doesn't quite pass the common sense test.

[GuyClinch]

How about "big men" that can step in when a hall-of-fame big man goes down for the season, plays roughly the same amount of minutes as that hall-of-fame big man (31.6 mpg for Davis versus 31.1 mpg for Garnett), and the team, winning percentage-wise, does not miss a beat (17-4 in games where Davis played and Garnett did not).

Oh really? The C's lost in the 2nd round - and anyone who thinks BBD replaced KG needs their head examined. BBD should take what he can get. I'd take the 4 years at 2.5 million per. That's still 5 million after taxes and if you don't live like a pig and spend wisely you could set yourself up forever with that..

If he signed the QO and then hurt himself he could miss out on that once in a lifetime pay day..

Pete

[sweatdog]

People just don't get it. The Celtics don't have to offer more than 4 yrs $10 MM because no other team is stepping up for BBD. I'm guessing the Celtics max offer will be 3 yrs $9 MM but they are not going to offer any more because they are the only game in town. Why should they?

BBD can cry all he wants but this is just the facts. If he wants more money then find a team to give him an offer sheet. He is having trouble doing so right now.

No, I get it. I just don't agree with it.

It's called preemptive negotiation. If we can sign him for 3/9 or 4/12, then we do it because otherwise there are still teams out there who might be willing to pay more as the market dwindles. Other teams aren't offering money because they know we will match any reasonable offer, so why do it. If BBD doesn't want to sign at 4/10 he won't, and play for the QO, and then leave next season.

It's not as simple as buying marshmallows... unless you want to factor in that, as soon as you decide to pay for that bag of marshmallows on sale, some other person can "match" your offer and you won't end up with any marshmallows and you'll be sitting there all bummed with empty sticks around a campfire.

It can be as simple as marshmallows. You are taking my basic idea and trying to incorporate market demand and a payment plan and elaborate the snot out of it. I like to dumb things down, it makes me feel happy and relevant so don't rain on my parade

[greenmachine_2849]

How about "big men" that can step in when a hall-of-fame big man goes down for the season, plays roughly the same amount of minutes as that hall-of-fame big man (31.6 mpg for Davis versus 31.1 mpg for Garnett), and the team, winning percentage-wise, does not miss a beat (17-4 in games where Davis played and Garnett did not).

Oh really? The C's lost in the 2nd round - and anyone who thinks BBD replaced KG needs their head examined. BBD should take what he can get. I'd take the 4 years at 2.5 million per. That's still 5 million after taxes and if you don't live like a pig and spend wisely you could set yourself up forever with that..

If he signed the QO and then hurt himself he could miss out on that once in a lifetime pay day..

Pete

Yeah, and the Celtics were about one missed PJ Brown jumper away from losing in the 2nd round in 2008 with a healthy Garnett (and a team loaded overall with talent). I think if you take away PJ Brown, Leon Powe, and James Posey and replace their minutes with Mikki Moore, Brian Scalabrine, and Tony Allen, the Celtics probably do lose in the second round against Cleveland back in 2008, Garnett or no Garnett.

Anyway, you can pretend that I am trying to make the argument that Davis is just as good as Garnett all you want, if that helps you get your talking points across. I never said that, of course, but oh well. What I DID say was that, in those games that Garnett missed last season (and that Davis played in), Davis did replace Garnett's minutes (31.6 mpg in those games for Davis versus Garnett's season average of 31.1), and the Celtics went 17-4, or a 81% winning percentage, in those 21 games. Those are FACTS. No one is saying that the Celtics were just as good with Davis in the starting line-up instead of Garnett; however, he WAS able to be a very effective temporary substitute for Garnett during the stretch that Garnett missed. Since I am pretty sure that the days of Garnett playing 30-35 mpg for an entire 82 game season are in the past, I think it would be a great idea to bring back a player that has proven able to step in to the starting line-up pretty effectively in the event of a Garnett injury. I assume you think that if Mikki Moore, Shelden Williams, or Brian Scalabrine had received the same 31.6 mpg (instead of Davis), any one of them would have put up just as impressive numbers and the Celtics would have gone 17-4 (your famous "more minutes with the starters can make any marginal player productive" theory). But I have a tough time buying that, as do most Celtic fans, imo.

[JMillott]

The Celtics were able to hold on to the #2 seed without KG not because of Big Baby Davis playing insanely great basketball but because they had guys like Pierce and Rondo play increased roles and minutes.

It was the presence of our core players that made Glen Davis's job of filling in for KG possible by them making the game easier for him and gift wrapping him wide open jumpers that every team in the league was willing to conceed to him.

Playing with our stars made life much easier for Glen Davis, playing with Glen Davis did not by any stretch make like easier for our stars. That is why they wined and dined Rasheed Wallace as soon as the summer started because should something happen to KG or Perk we now have a guy that can step in and handle enough of the burden to keep Paul Pierce and Ray Allen from running themselves into the ground again before the playoffs even start.

I've got nothing against Glen Davis other then his preceived pricetag this summer as he is a solid 4th bigman in this league i've got no issues with him in that role. He isn't a starter, he isn't a sixth man and ideally he shouldn't be the first bigman off the bench either.

Leon Powe without that knee injury is the one who would've deserved 4+ million a year and he was the 3rd bigman on this team the past two years. He was the one capable of not just stepping in and living off wide open jumpers created by Pierce, Rondo and Ray.

If Powe doesn't get hurt he'd have been looking at similar interest compareable to what Paul Millsap received because he actually could be a quality starter in this league and is already proven as a third big man.