All this will end with a TA buyout, no?
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All this will end with a TA buyout, no?
- Captain_Caveman
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All this will end with a TA buyout, no?
Indy's not taking him, and we aren't keeping him just to trade him at the deadline.
Buy out TA, Daniels for 2/3-year LLE, keep Hudson, maybe sign Bowen or Marbury or Lue.
Here's my prediction:
Rondo/Marbury/Hudson
Ray/House/Giddens/Walker
Pierce/Daniels
KG/Baby/Scal
Perk/Sheed/Shelden
And yours?
Buy out TA, Daniels for 2/3-year LLE, keep Hudson, maybe sign Bowen or Marbury or Lue.
Here's my prediction:
Rondo/Marbury/Hudson
Ray/House/Giddens/Walker
Pierce/Daniels
KG/Baby/Scal
Perk/Sheed/Shelden
And yours?
Re: All this will end with a TA buyout, no?
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Re: All this will end with a TA buyout, no?
I hope not. I'd like to see the Celtics leverage a deal with their expirings to get Foster in the MD trade. Or to get someone like Jaric and a pick with our expirings. I'd rather see Lue as the backup PG than Marbury, as I think the backup PG is gonna get minimal minutes, and Marbury might complain about that. I'd also like to see the Celtics sign Bowen.
RR, Lue, Hudson
RA, House, Giddens
PP, MD, Bowen
KG, BBD, SW
Perks, Sheed, Foster
or
RR, Jaric, Hudson
RA, House, Giddens
PP, MD, Bowen
KG, BBD, SW
Perks, Sheed, ? (Swift, Mihm, or someone else)
Man, how much would you love to see Foster included in the MD deal?
RR, Lue, Hudson
RA, House, Giddens
PP, MD, Bowen
KG, BBD, SW
Perks, Sheed, Foster
or
RR, Jaric, Hudson
RA, House, Giddens
PP, MD, Bowen
KG, BBD, SW
Perks, Sheed, ? (Swift, Mihm, or someone else)
Man, how much would you love to see Foster included in the MD deal?
Re: All this will end with a TA buyout, no?
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Re: All this will end with a TA buyout, no?
All this will end with TA and Scal getting traded for a back-up 5 or a back-up point at the deadline, unless Swift or Marbury makes the team and contributes.
Re: All this will end with a TA buyout, no?
- campybatman
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Re: All this will end with a TA buyout, no?
I say no. This isn't like Indiana's situation with Tinsley: They were 100% done with him. Basically, he was paid to stay home all of this season, and Indiana begrudgingly decided to settle on a buyout during this off-season. But their preference was to trade him. Conversely, I don't feel as if Ainge is in a situation where he must move on from Tony ASAP. Of course, a buyout is an option, but I don't think it'll be the first option that Ainge wants to take. For Indiana, it was a last resort. He'll likely try to trade him before the deadline next season. Because a buyout implies that you've no intention of playing Tony at all and I haven't read from Ainge or Rivers that that indeed will be their intention. One could say that neither will come out publicly and say that. However, what would be the point in doing so? What would be the point of just sitting him for the entire regular season? All that accomplishes is telling the rest of the teams in the league that he's unwanted and, thus, lowering his trade value. Remember Rivers desired to have Tony resigned for this season. So he might still see him in the immediate plans.
Do we know that Tony in fact is the player Ainge tired to foist on Indiana? I recall reading initially that the player presumingly could be either Tony or Scalabrine. But the only name you see seems to just be Tony. It probably was Tony offered... Still, I thought maybe that was more a case of media assumption.
Do we know that Tony in fact is the player Ainge tired to foist on Indiana? I recall reading initially that the player presumingly could be either Tony or Scalabrine. But the only name you see seems to just be Tony. It probably was Tony offered... Still, I thought maybe that was more a case of media assumption.
Re: All this will end with a TA buyout, no?
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Re: All this will end with a TA buyout, no?
Captain_Caveman wrote:Indy's not taking him, and we aren't keeping him just to trade him at the deadline.
Buy out TA, Daniels for 2/3-year LLE, keep Hudson, maybe sign Bowen or Marbury or Lue.
Here's my prediction:
Rondo/Marbury/Hudson
Ray/House/Giddens/Walker
Pierce/Daniels
KG/Baby/Scal
Perk/Sheed/Shelden
And yours?
Ridiculous.
Buyout Tony. Ludicrous.
The Celtics could get Memphis, the Clippers or Minnesota to just take Tony,
with their cap space, for considerably less than his full salary.
The Clippers or Memphis should actually be willing to at least give up a 2nd round pick
for Tony, since Tony is better than almost all late First Rounders (True).
Hell, even Sacramento, who doesn't need Tony, would do the sign and trade
for less than Tony's full salary.
A buyout never entered the minds of anyone who understands the dynamics of this situation.
Re: All this will end with a TA buyout, no?
- MVP16
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Re: All this will end with a TA buyout, no?
Why? Buyout TA and to sign Hudson who was the 58th pick? I would rather keep TA and send Hudson to Europe for a year.
Re: All this will end with a TA buyout, no?
- Celts17Pride
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Re: All this will end with a TA buyout, no?
Jammer wrote:Ridiculous.
Buyout Tony. Ludicrous.
The Celtics could get Memphis, the Clippers or Minnesota to just take Tony,
with their cap space, for considerably less than his full salary.
The Clippers or Memphis should actually be willing to at least give up a 2nd round pick
for Tony, since Tony is better than almost all late First Rounders (True).
Hell, even Sacramento, who doesn't need Tony, would do the sign and trade
for less than Tony's full salary.
A buyout never entered the minds of anyone who understands the dynamics of this situation.
Jammer,
Live in the real world. You don't think Ainge has tried to give Tony Allen away? No one wants Tony Allen. It's a very real possibility that Tony Allen will be waived if Ainge can't include him in a trade.
Re: All this will end with a TA buyout, no?
- Cyclical
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Re: All this will end with a TA buyout, no?
TA isn't getting bought out. He's a valuable bench player. We're not talking about a talentless waist or a nasty contract taking up payroll - two popular options for a buyout. There's no way Danny buys him out. If he's looking for buyers he'll find them. There's always a need for a good wing defender. If there were takers for Gerald Green, Jiri Welsch and a host of other failures at the wing position there are definitely takers for a guy like TA.
Re: All this will end with a TA buyout, no?
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Re: All this will end with a TA buyout, no?
There are good tradeable option for TA. Jaric isn't used much in Memphis and I'm sure they'd like to move his salary sooner than later. With the Cs Jaric could be the backup PG, and he'd also give us another option besides MD to have a big ball handling guard in the back court with House. I would want a 2nd rounder in that trade, though.
The fact that the Daniels deal hasn't happened yet, suggest that there could be more to it. Maybe more players?? I could see Ainges wanting to trade for Foster. Foster is a much better option at the 5 than Scal, and someone like Bowen would be a better option at the 3. And with KG, Baby, and SW, there's no room for Scal at the 4. If Foster is coming, I'm sure Indy will want to sign another Big. This could be what's holding up the deal.
The fact that the Daniels deal hasn't happened yet, suggest that there could be more to it. Maybe more players?? I could see Ainges wanting to trade for Foster. Foster is a much better option at the 5 than Scal, and someone like Bowen would be a better option at the 3. And with KG, Baby, and SW, there's no room for Scal at the 4. If Foster is coming, I'm sure Indy will want to sign another Big. This could be what's holding up the deal.
Re: All this will end with a TA buyout, no?
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Re: All this will end with a TA buyout, no?
Some of you have gone way overboard with the TA hate. I'm still not even sure that Daniels is going to be a better solution than TA was for us last year. Remember that like Tony, Daniels has had a long series of injury problems, if Daniels back injury flares up again, we'll definitely want someone like TA around. There is almost zero possibility of Ainge buying out a guy who can still score 10 points off the bench, and defend the other teams' best wing player, while earning only 3 million dollars.
Re: All this will end with a TA buyout, no?
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Re: All this will end with a TA buyout, no?
Rocky5000 wrote:Some of you have gone way overboard with the TA hate. I'm still not even sure that Daniels is going to be a better solution than TA was for us last year. Remember that like Tony, Daniels has had a long series of injury problems, if Daniels back injury flares up again, we'll definitely want someone like TA around. There is almost zero possibility of Ainge buying out a guy who can still score 10 points off the bench, and defend the other teams' best wing player, while earning only 3 million dollars.
I wouldn't be looking to buy TA out either - his expiring contract may come into play - if not now - towards the trade deadline in February when the have-nots realize they are going nowhere and are looking at the sober reality of a lower salary cap.
But in terms of playing him - he had his chances. I'd rather see what we have in Walker and Giddens in any leftover minutes. Allen may "get it" in another system, but whether it is injury or head problems - this team cannot go forward with Allen in the unlikely event Daniels isn't markedly superior or even with a Daniels injury. Three straight seasons he was done by the end of the season one way or the other - it can't be allowed to happen again. Since the sign and trade is not going to happen, look to trade TA to a team under the salary cap to get a $2.5 million trade exception. I don't hate TA - I just don't want to count on him.
Brad Stevens on fans who want the Celtics to tank: "I don’t think they’ll like me all that much then."
Re: All this will end with a TA buyout, no?
- campybatman
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Re: All this will end with a TA buyout, no?
I would rather attempt to acquire Balkman if the idea is to trade Tony now or before the deadline. I don't want Jaric, not for his salary. With Balkman, you're only committed to one year at $2M as oppose to $7.1M for Jaric. Tony's salary is for $2.5M. Actually, you can do this trade straight up. It works... And Tony gives Denver depth at shooting guard after losing Dahntay Jones while Balkman gives Boston depth at small forward. Fair deal for both teams, in my opinion. Besides, both Balkman and Tony are expiring contracts so you can decide to resign that player or not.
Re: All this will end with a TA buyout, no?
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Re: All this will end with a TA buyout, no?
Denver isn't trading Balkman for TA, and they already have Afflalo playing behind JR, who they believe willl have a semi-breakout season. I'd do the Jaric trade if Memphis threw in a pick. Jaric would be expiring the following year so he could be moved. But my feeling is the Celtics will be getting more than MD when this trade goes down. If Foster's included we'd likely have to switch Walker with Giddens for salary matching reasons. I could go either way with those two. But Foster would be a great 3rd center.
Re: All this will end with a TA buyout, no?
- campybatman
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Re: All this will end with a TA buyout, no?
Then you'll have a hard time convincing Ainge to make sense out of acquiring a player who'll make $7.1M versus just keeping a player you already have for far less ($2.5M) and an expiring contract. Boston would've to subtract more players just to make the salaries work. No thanks. All this effort for Jaric who has two guaranteed years of over $7M each? There's no rationale in doing a trade for him.
Indiana doesn't have to sign-and-trade Daniels. So why would they include another player or two in addition? That wouldn't make any sense for them. They've already moved on from him. It's Ainge who has the interest in Daniels. No, it's clear, Daniels will sign for the Bi-annual exception. Which leaves Ainge with few options for a backup point guard. Hence, why he'd preferred to get Daniels via a sign-and-trade, to save the Bi-annual exception.
I say just hold onto Tony for the time being. No sense in trading away an expiring contract for an overpaid player. That solves nothing.
Indiana doesn't have to sign-and-trade Daniels. So why would they include another player or two in addition? That wouldn't make any sense for them. They've already moved on from him. It's Ainge who has the interest in Daniels. No, it's clear, Daniels will sign for the Bi-annual exception. Which leaves Ainge with few options for a backup point guard. Hence, why he'd preferred to get Daniels via a sign-and-trade, to save the Bi-annual exception.
I say just hold onto Tony for the time being. No sense in trading away an expiring contract for an overpaid player. That solves nothing.
Re: All this will end with a TA buyout, no?
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Re: All this will end with a TA buyout, no?
A few reasons off the top of my head why we will not buyout Tony.
1. We might be able to get something for his expiring near the deadline. Alone or as part of a bigger trade.
2. He can play some D.
3. He is probably less likely to give up a lead then Walker and Giddions.
4. If PP, RA, MD or House go down he can be in the rotation.
5. $$$$
6. We don't need a spot that badly. the starters plus: House, MD, Sheed, Baby, Scal, Walker, Giddions. I count 12. Are there 3 guys better then Tony we are going to bring in?
1. We might be able to get something for his expiring near the deadline. Alone or as part of a bigger trade.
2. He can play some D.
3. He is probably less likely to give up a lead then Walker and Giddions.
4. If PP, RA, MD or House go down he can be in the rotation.
5. $$$$
6. We don't need a spot that badly. the starters plus: House, MD, Sheed, Baby, Scal, Walker, Giddions. I count 12. Are there 3 guys better then Tony we are going to bring in?
Re: All this will end with a TA buyout, no?
- Captain_Caveman
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Re: All this will end with a TA buyout, no?
Some of you dudes have wildly inflated views of his worth and the worth of his expiring contract.
Pretty obvious by now that no one wants the guy.
He is one of the dumbest players in the league, is undersized for his position, has had multiple major knee surgeries, once tried to have a guy killed in front of a hundred witnesses and has major gang affiliations that might get him murdered at any moment.
You'll see.
Pretty obvious by now that no one wants the guy.
He is one of the dumbest players in the league, is undersized for his position, has had multiple major knee surgeries, once tried to have a guy killed in front of a hundred witnesses and has major gang affiliations that might get him murdered at any moment.
You'll see.
Re: All this will end with a TA buyout, no?
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Re: All this will end with a TA buyout, no?
bonsaiflipflops wrote:Then you'll have a hard time convincing Ainge to make sense out of acquiring a player who'll make $7.1M versus just keeping a player you already have for far less ($2.5M) and an expiring contract. Boston would've to subtract more players just to make the salaries work. No thanks. All this effort for Jaric who has two guaranteed years of over $7M each? There's no rationale in doing a trade for him.
Indiana doesn't have to sign-and-trade Daniels. So why would they include another player or two in addition? That wouldn't make any sense for them. They've already moved on from him. It's Ainge who has the interest in Daniels. No, it's clear, Daniels will sign for the Bi-annual exception. Which leaves Ainge with few options for a backup point guard. Hence, why he'd preferred to get Daniels via a sign-and-trade, to save the Bi-annual exception.
I say just hold onto Tony for the time being. No sense in trading away an expiring contract for an overpaid player. That solves nothing.
Well this is how I see it. If we don't move players we have to pay their salaries. MD will be Pierce's main sub, and will likely also be House's backcourt partner most of the time. You have 3 very similar players in TA, Giddens and Walker. None of these guys are likely to get major minutes. And with the SW and Sheed signings, Scal is out of the rotation at the 4 and 5. Boston also has a better option than Scal (if we want him) at the 3, with Bowen. If I'm Ainges, I'm moving Scal, TA and one of Giddens or Walker. Cuz 3 of those four are just eating salary. TA sucks as a bench player so his trading value is pretty low. You're not likely to reduce salary, but you can free up some roster spots and add better players position by position. I would love to get Bowen as a 3rd SF option cuz he's better than anything we currently have. But, again, you need to free up roster spots. If you trade for Jaric who you could probably get an additional pick and you have your backup PG, and another big guard to matchup with House. This won't cost the Celtics any additional $$ next year, and you could likely move him in the 2nd because he'll be an expiring contract. I would do that trade if we end up signing MD with the LLE.
We'd probably have to use Giddens instead of Walker for Foster, and we may have to give up a pick, probably a 2nd rounder. Man, I would love "Foster, but what do give up for'm when you already picked up Sheed and SW? I think you go extra deep at the 4/5 cuz you never know if those bone spurs are gonna come back. But you have to get rid of guys who are redundant or aren't likely to get any time. While also addressing some of your other key concerns.
Re: All this will end with a TA buyout, no?
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Re: All this will end with a TA buyout, no?
What's the rush? Why not wait until training camp to clear out the logjam at the wing position? This will give Doc and Danny a chance to evaluate how some of the candidates for roster spots have progressed. If JR Giddens, for example, has a strong camp, it makes Tony Allen all the more expendable. And who knows, maybe Tony could surprise us and come into camp in excellent shape and playing with more poise. By waiting, Danny could also have the option of feeding TA extra minutes during the preseason and early regular season in an attempt to 'showcase' him to the rest of the league. Tony has always shown that he plays better when given consistent minutes, so if he were given a chance to get into a decent groove, he might be able to increase his stock among the league's GMs.
So no, I don't think it will end in a buyout.
So no, I don't think it will end in a buyout.
Re: All this will end with a TA buyout, no?
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Re: All this will end with a TA buyout, no?
Captain_Caveman wrote:Some of you dudes have wildly inflated views of his worth and the worth of his expiring contract.
Pretty obvious by now that no one wants the guy.
He is one of the dumbest players in the league, is undersized for his position, has had multiple major knee surgeries, once tried to have a guy killed in front of a hundred witnesses and has major gang affiliations that might get him murdered at any moment.
You'll see.
While I think all of this, I beleive, is 100% accurate, buying him out now is not the right move, IMO. If you can trade him in the Daniels deal, then you are basically opening the LLE...which results in trading TA for someone who can be had for 1.9 mil. That makes sense. If you can't make that move, however, then keeping him around for another half a season is not the worst thing in the world. He knows the system...well that isn't entirely true. He has been exposed to the system for the past few seasons, and if Daniel's goes down early (which is entirely possible) he can fill in as a defensive guy for 10-15 minutes a game and not be too much of a drag. Hopefully Giddens or Walker can fill this role, but who really knows right now. I think with all the warts that Tony has he is still better than those guys today.
Come the trading deadline, he is no longer TA the player, he is TA the contract. Same can be said for Scal. That is 5.7 million in expiring contracts and Giddens/Walker and/or a pick to bring in a mid-level exception type player to fill a gap from an injury or underperformance. For a championship caliber team, the ability to add a rotational/impact player at the trade deadline can make or break a championship run. JMHO.
Re: All this will end with a TA buyout, no?
- Celts17Pride
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Re: All this will end with a TA buyout, no?
joneb wrote:What's the rush? Why not wait until training camp to clear out the logjam at the wing position?
I'm not saying the Celtics are going to waive Tony Allen now or at all. I just saying that it's a very real possibility that opening day comes next season and Tony Allen is not on the roster. It's no secret that the Celtics are begging other teams to take him and no one is interested.
If the Celtics sign Bowen it's a clear message to TA that the Celtics don't want him around. The Celtics would have Daniels & Bowen and two young guys Giddens & Walker. TA days are numbered. I'm guessing Ainge will try to include him in a trade up until the season starts and if no one trades for him then it's a very real possibility he gets waived.
Anyone who thinks otherwise is being naive.