What is Memphis and the Clippers Problem with Tony Allen ???

[Jammer]

With Glen "Big Baby" Davis reportedly staying put,
if a Sign & Trade for Marquis Daniels is going to happen,
Memphis and the Clippers are the only two teams with cap space and a need at SG
that could possibly accept Tony.

What is their problem?

Before analyzing Memphis and the Clippers situation,
I will quickly review the other under the cap teams and why they wouldn't want Tony.

Sacramento - Have Beno Udrih, Sergio Rodriquez and combo guard Tyreke Evans at PG, and
Kevin Martin as starting SG, backed up by Franscisco Garcia (their starting SF) and
combo guard Tyreke Evans.

Detroit - have Richard Hamilton and Ben Gordon at SG,
plus Rodney Stuckey and Will Bynum at PG. Tony makes too much to be the 5th guard
with this group. Besides, Hamilton is a better PG than Tony, anyway.

Atlanta - doesn't have the cap space. With 11 players under contract, if you add the salary for
a 12th player, there is no longer the cap space for Tony to be their 13th player, plus they have
Jamal Crawford backing up Joe Johnson at SG.

Oklahoma City - have James Harden, Thabo Sefolosha and Kyle Weaver at SG.

Portland - have Brandon Roy, Rudy Fernandez and Jerryd Bayless; plus they haven't forgotten
the Celtics reduced their 2009 cap space by $9 million by signing Darius Miles.

Minnesota - have Wayne Ellington, Corey Brewer, Damien Wilkens
and even Quentin Richardson as SG's.

So, that brings us back to the Clippers and the Grizzlies.

The Grizzlies Guard depth chart is:

PG: Mike Conley, Jr. / Marcus Williams
SG: OJ Mayo / Marko Jaric ? (be serious, is he quick enough to defend anyone?)
SF: Rudy Gay / DeMarre Carroll / Sam Young
PF: Zach Randolph / Darrell Arthur / Stephen Hunter
C: Marc Gasol / Hasheem Thabeet / Hamed Haddadi

The Grizzlies have 13 players under contract. They could really use a 5th guard.
The Memphis paper is reporting they are looking for a true PG, which means
they don't want to give OJ Mayo his wish to be shifted to PG. If this is true,
it means that they are committed to Mayo and Jaric as their SG's,
neither of whom can defend. The only other thing to do with Jaric is make
him Rudy Gay's backup, which he could wind up being anyway since their only
other alternatives at backup SF are rookies DeMarre Carroll and Sam Young.

So, again, why not add Tony as the 5th guard? Heck, it would be reasonable for
Congress to threaten to take away the NBA's exemption from Anti-Trust when
you consider that Heisley has done just about everything possible to make his team
stink. In their last 8 years, the Grizzlies have had two 22 win seasons, a 23 win season,
a 24 win season and a 28 win season. Why give these guys an exemption from anti-trust
since a 10th grader could probably guide the Grizz to more success than that?

My point is not adding Tony is Anti-Competive, since Tony is a better straight up
defender, for his position, than anyone on the current Grizzlies roster.

Which brings us to the Clippers.

The Clippers depth chart at guard is:

PG: Baron Davis / SeBustian TelFailure
SG: Eric Gordon / Mardy Collins (since when is he a SG?)
SF: Al Thorton / Ricky Davis
PF: Blake Griffin / Craig Smith / Steve Novak
C: Marcus Camby / Chris Kaman / DeAndre Jordan / Mark friggin Madsen

Apparently Ricky Davis will get minutes at SG, but a true 5th guard in LaLa Land
would certainly help.

The key would be simply for them to take Tony and his $2.5 million salary.

The Grizzlies obviously have no one who can defend the SG spot, and if they have
an injury, they would be in dire straights. Ditto the Clips.

So, what gives? Why is Tony So Unwanted????

[Celts17Pride]

because he sucks and he takes up $2.5 million in cap space. Plus he is shady and troubled (hitmen are after him in Chicago) which doesn't help.

[BillessuR6]

I think we need to forget about a sign and trade for Daniels. No one wants TA...

Maybe we can trade him closer to the deadline when his expiring contract becomes even more valuable...

[chakdaddy]

If he weren't so unwanted, we wouldn't be trying to get rid of him.

He's been in the league long enough that he's not perceived as having any upside; teams would rather have a younger guy that might develop and who would be cheaper (not that TA's particularly expensive.)

I don't get the idea that teams should be lining up to trade 2nd round picks for guys that we would essentially like to cut.

[Zin5]

What is your problem thinking every team should just take our garbage off our hands when it wouldn't help them?

Tony Allen is barely worth a roster space, let alone the $2.5M any team would have to pay him.

[chakdaddy]

Basically, these teams would rather fill out the back end of their roster with a random, minimum salary player of THEIR choice, than spend a draft pick in order to spend more money on TA, a random player of OUR choice.

[Jammer]

Basically, these teams would rather fill out the back end of their roster with a random, minimum salary player of THEIR choice, than spend a draft pick in order to spend more money on TA, a random player of OUR choice.

Not really. They could, if they had them,
give up the rights to some long forgotten unsigned draft pick,
or a heavily protected 2nd Rounder that never comes Boston's way.

In that scenario, Boston then has to come up with something to entice
Indiana to do the Sign & Trade, such as a future 2nd Round Pick.

For example, the Clippers could give up the rights to
their 2003 # 34 pick, Sofoklis Schortsanitis,

or more plausible at this point, the Clips or Memphis trade
a future 2nd Round Pick (if it's number 56-60). If it's not number 56-60,
the Clips or Memphis keep the pick.

So, you see, they don't have to give up anything for the Sign & Trade to occur,
Memphis or the Clippers simply have use their cap space to bring Tony onboard.

Now, as far as satisfying Indiana, the Celtics could then
(assuming the Clips or Memphis trade a top 55 protected pick, that
reverts to them if it's in the top 55),

send to Indiana:

A) The draft rights to Lester Hudson or Semih Erden or
B) A future 2nd Round Pick
c) Cash

I think that the Celtics preference would be A or B,
and Indiana might just do it, rather than get nothing.

Again, the key is really
Memphis or the Clippers just bringing Tony Allen on board.

Heck, now that I think about it, Detroit could do it,
if they were just signing minimum contract players to get them to 13 players
(other than adding Tony Allen, I mean).

[Zin5]

No team would take on TA's salary. He has none or negative value throughout the league, considering his salary. We would have to send something with him just to get a team to take him.

[Celtics_85]

I'm not looking at TA as most others are around here. If he were as bad as some might think then who in their right mind would take TA for 2.5 million. I like the added depth that TA brings to this team, as I don't think we could bring in anyone that knows the system better than him. Sure it would have been nice to trade him for Daniels, but it didn't happen and we have to use the LLE on him. So we will have to use the MLE to re-sign Daniels and loose the LLE next year, but we only need to take care of 2 rotation players next year in Ray and House, and that is if we bring House back. This isn't a travesty of any kind to keep TA as his contract might be handy at the deadline where a team might want to shed salary and give up a pick. Look at our record the last couple of years and you will see that TA was part of this team as these records were acheived, so lets cut the guy some slack as he will do something good for this team at some point during the year, just as he has the past few years.

[Rocky5000]

They're not playoff teams, & the economy is in the toilet. The Celtics also don't need a roster spot and there are really no quality players left to sign. On the issue of Bowen, according to Hoopsworld, we're holding off on signing Daniels in order to look at Bowen. So our extra wing could be either Daniels or Bowen, but not both.

I personally don't want Bowen on the team. If the Spurs don't want him back, that should be a giant red flag. There's also the fact that I think he's the dirtiest player in the league.

[Jammer]

No team would take on TA's salary. He has none or negative value throughout the league, considering his salary. We would have to send something with him just to get a team to take him.

Here's where I disagree.

Memphis obviously needs a 5th rotational guard. Their dumb owner Heisley was flirting
with chemistry killer Allen Iverson in mid-July for 1 year at $5 million,
over the objections of the front office and coaching staff.

Now, Tony Allen can defend MUCH better at SG than anyone on the Memphis roster.
He's also great in the open floor, or attacking the rim.
I think that he would pair well with OJ Mayo, since
Mayo would rather guard the opposing PG anyway.

And the Clips need a 5th guard as well, see the depth chart in my initial post.

So it's not $2.5 million for Tony Allen when you realize they have to sign someone.
Both teams do.

Anyone they sign for minimum will SUCK 3X more than Tony Allen.

So, $2.5 million for Tony actually gets someone who can contribute.

My point is if these teams sign minimum salaries guys who suck before the season even starts,
they're playing for lottery balls from the get go, and screwing their fans.

By taking on Tony Allen, Memphis would at least be trying to win games.

You can't make the same statement about the Clips, since they are obviously trying to win
since Congress threatened to get on the NBA's case a few years back,
due to 20 years of Clipper sucking,
and take away the NBA's anti-trust exemption.
Stern basically told Sterling to try to win,
and the Clippers have been respectable ever since.

But Memphis is another case of an owner
not giving a hoot
of putting a quality product on the floor.

[leper-con]

HIs Salary is insignificant.

The problem with TA is his head.
he has some perifereal eye problem which affects his shooting ability.

he was involved in a bar shooting.
He was the target of death threats---he can't leave his old life behind.

You (insert team of choice) don't want to be dealing with a guy like this. Say someone acts out on the death threat and sprays the team bus with gunfire and via collateral damage someoen gets shot, say KG...your team is now FUBAR.

TA has associates problems.

[Celts17Pride]

TA has associates problems.

TA has created his own problems, he is not a victim.

[Captain_Caveman]

It should also probably be said that despite the FA class next year, there are a glut of expiring deals all over the league and one's like TA should thus have less value.

Plus, we are obviously not looking to take on long-term deals in order to retain our future flexibility, so there's really only a finite number of deals that TA could be used in.

AND we already have enough expiring deals to make those kinds of trades with.

[Scorpion King]

They can sign a guy from Dleague for a whole lot less and get the same production they get from T Allen plus they do not have to worrry about his injury issues, his off court issues and not to mention the $$$ they will save....

TAllen wont make much of a difference so i would rather sign some scrub...

Just because Memphis and Clippers dont want TAllen doesnt mean they have a problem

One mans garbage is another mans treasure but not in this case... he is a low life trash who should be in d league.....

[DEEP3CL]

Memphis and the Clippers are the only two teams with cap space and a need at SG
that could possibly accept Tony.

What is their problem?

Ah......maybe because the Clippers have Eric Gordon who is way way better than Tony Allen. And last time I looked Memphis had some guy named OJ Mayo who is also way way better than Allen. Where will he get minutes ?

So why is it that they have to have a problem ?

What just because they won't lend a helping hand to the Celtics ?

Why should they take a guy who nobody wants ?

[I love heinsohn]

While I agree that they won't take on TA's salary, the Celtics are probably offering to PAY Tony's salary. TA costs Boston $2.5 million + $2.5 million in luxury tax payments. If they sign Daniels to a $3.1 million deal instead of $1.9 million, then the added cost is $1.2 million + $1.2 million. So they could offer to send $2.5 million to whatever team takes Tony and a 2nd round draft pick to Indiana and still come out $100,000 less on their total cost for next season.

Memphis (or whoever) gets TA for free and Indy gets a 2nd rounder for free. Win - win - win. I still think DA gets it done.

[Zin5]

Here's where I disagree.

Memphis obviously needs a 5th rotational guard. Their dumb owner Heisley was flirting
with chemistry killer Allen Iverson in mid-July for 1 year at $5 million,
over the objections of the front office and coaching staff.

There's a difference between giving a player that will sell jerseys, put butts in seats, and is only a year removed from a 26.4 PPG season on a playoff team 5 million dollars and giving 2.5 million to a player that has no fan appeal and can't do much more than a D League player that they could sign for more than a million less. I'm not going to get into the cancer debate, because TA was also a major distraction for the Celtics last year. It's not like the Grizzlies have any chemistry to disrupt, but they can't afford to give an injury prone headache 2.5 million.

Now, Tony Allen can defend MUCH better at SG than anyone on the Memphis roster.
He's also great in the open floor, or attacking the rim.
I think that he would pair well with OJ Mayo, since
Mayo would rather guard the opposing PG anyway.

At the minimum, I agree, TA would be decent for Memphis when he's not hurt, a distraction, or a complete bonehead. So for maybe 20 games a year, he'd be a decent investment at the minimum. If we want to give them back a million and a half to take him, then fine, but that just stands by my point that we'd have to give something up with him to get someone to take him off our hands.

And the Clips need a 5th guard as well, see the depth chart in my initial post.

So it's not $2.5 million for Tony Allen when you realize they have to sign someone.
Both teams do.

You've been pressing on this every team needs a fifth guard point for a while, haven't you? I think you were the one that said we needed one last season. Why couldn't he just play fifth guard for us? We still don't have anyone past Rondo, House, Daniels, and Ray, unless you think Hudson fits that bill. It's because you know he's not good enough. Stop arguing about other teams having a problem with Allen when our team already does.

Anyone they sign for minimum will SUCK 3X more than Tony Allen.

So, $2.5 million for Tony actually gets someone who can contribute.

My point is if these teams sign minimum salaries guys who suck before the season even starts,
they're playing for lottery balls from the get go, and screwing their fans.

By taking on Tony Allen, Memphis would at least be trying to win games.

This is all very debatable. We signed Dantay Jones to the min a couple summers ago and he ended up being a better player than Tony Allen since then. Why should they risk $1.5M more on a player who's not guaranteed to be better?

You can't make the same statement about the Clips, since they are obviously trying to win
since Congress threatened to get on the NBA's case a few years back,
due to 20 years of Clipper sucking,
and take away the NBA's anti-trust exemption.
Stern basically told Sterling to try to win,
and the Clippers have been respectable ever since.

But Memphis is another case of an owner
not giving a hoot
of putting a quality product on the floor.

Memphis gave up capspace that they got from Gasol for Zach Randolph. I don't think their problem is not giving a hoot about putting a quality product on the floor.

BTW, stop hitting return after every punctuation mark. It's actually pretty annoying to read and it stretches out the page more than it needs to be.

[Celts17Pride]

GET IT THROUGH YOUR HEADS, NO ONE WANTS TONY ALLEN.

Including the Celtics.

[Spin Move]

The other teams don't want there players getting shot in retribution for something TA was involved with. The dude makes incredbly poor decisions, he doesn't have range, he is foul prone, he in injury prone and he is percived as a bad apple. He has negative trade value.