TT '09 - DEAD Thread

[bigjabroni]

Sorry, I didn't realize my Balkman trade can't work. Balkman makes like 100k more than the Sun's TPE. How about:

Brian Scalabrine for the Nets TPE??

Pretty low-key deal. Takes some pressure off Yi and Sean Williams, because they haven't shown much consistency. Also frees up a few bucks for the Celts to resign Big Baby who is clearly a better PF, Boston shouldn't just let him walk for nothing.

Thanks and good luck to all.

[ecuhus1981]

Thanks to the 13 participants who have finished the preliminary assignment. Two of you have dropped from the competition, and 8 more have yet to finish the assignment. They are:

Trader_Joe
Killua
KiDdFrESh
vincecarter4pres
javaisfun
N.O.R.E.
Ben_Dover
JayCarlock

Can it be? Trader_Joe is on this list? T_J, we've seen an awful lot of chatter from you, but unless my eyes are deceiving me, no proposal. To all eight on this list, remember, you only have until TONIGHT at MIDNIGHT ET.

[vincecarter4pres]

Sorry I've been slacking on this one, I've been out the entire weekend. I'll get on it soon though.

[vincecarter4pres]

Miami sends:
TPE
2nd round pick

Milwaukee sends:
Kurt Thomas

Why?
It gets Miami some soloid frontcourt depth that they desperately need without making any long term commitments and without giving up much value.

For Milwaukee it provides some more financial relief, plain and simple. Gets them a 2nd round pick as well for what that's worth. They are a team stuck in rebuilding mode and playoff hopes and in dire need to stay under the tax and this fully allows them to resign Sessions if they still want him.
This trade also opens up more playing time for Amir Johnson.

[KiDdFrESh]

This a simple swap with Golden State and Orlando.

Golden State trades:

PG: Acie Law

Orlando trades:

2.2 million TPE

______________________________________________________________________________________________

Lineup for Golden State Warriors:

PG: Ellis, Curry, Claxton
SG: Azubuike, Morrow
C: Biendris, Turiaf
SF: Jackson, Maggette, George
PF: Randolph, Wright

* PG: CJ Watson (FA)

Why for Golden State?

Acie Law did not recieve much playing time at all in Golden State and would likely recieve even less time with the addition of Stephen Curry. Law was simply a throw-in with the Claxton & Crawford trade. I think the Warriors would be thrilled with the salary relief they will recieve from this trade as Acie is due over 2 million this season and has a team option next season.

* This move also opens a spot for the Warriors to re-sign PG: C.J. Watson

______________________________________________________________________________________________

Lineup for Orlando Magic

PG: Nelson, Johnson, Law
SG: Carter, Reddick
C: Howard, Gortat
SF: Pietrus, Barnes
PF: Lewis, Bass, Anderson

Why for Orlando?

The Orlando Magic organization have made it apparent that they are going "All In" this year with the moves they've made thus far this off-season. Granted acquiring Acie Law isnt going to be a huge splash. Law could learn a few things from Nelson even Johnson and could potentially become a solid backup point behind Jameer Nelson. Let's be honest, just how much does Anthony Johnson have left in the tank and is he really in the Magic's future plans? I think this would be a great chance for the Magic to add another piece to their core.

[N.O.R.E.]

Here's mine, I don't know if it's too late, nor do I care.


Clippers Receive: Charlie Bell, J. Alexander

Why?
Depth.


Bucks Receive: TPE, 2nd

Why?
Further salary savings.

[N.O.R.E.]

Sorry, forgot to post depth charts:

Clips:

Kaman/DeAndre
B.Griffin/Camby
Thornton/J.Alexander
E.Gordon/C.Bell
B.Davis/Telfair


Bucks

Bogut/Gadz/KT
Amir/Warrick/KT/Sharpe
Mbah a Moute/Ilyasova/Warrick
Redd/Meeks/Weems
B.Jennings/Ridnour

[Trader_Joe]

My input....

Denver Nuggets - $9.7mil TPE, $2.1mil TPE
Given the fact Denver is already a couple million over the tax, Klieza is searching for European offers, and they added "depth" in Afflalo and Allen, I doubt Denver looks to use a substantial portion of their TEs, if at all.

LA Clippers - $7.3mil TPE
Given how "cheap" ownership is, and the fact they have made cost cutting moves like waiving Mike Taylor, trading Randolph, and taking into account they are young and looking at 2010, I doubt this team uses a substantial portion of their TE, if at all.

Orlando Magic - $6.8mil TPE
Orlando went all out already with their trades and signings, esp. matching Gortat which I think broke the bank for them. Their line-up looks stacked and they currently have the 6th highest payroll at $78m. I doubt this team uses a substantial portion of their TE, if at all.

Milwaukee Bucks - $2.1mil TPE
$67m in payroll, and they may try to match Sessisons, so if anything, they maye look to clear more salary to make that happen.
Until the Sessions drama is ironed out, they would not use their TPE.

New Jersey Nets - $3.7mil TPE
Given this team is bleeding money, their future is uncertain, they are looking for max 2010 money and they have 15 guaranteed contracts, I doubt this team uses a substantial portion of their TE, if at all.

LA Lakers - $2.5mil TPE
$91m in salary. Adding a scrub for 2.5m, actually will cost them $5m, and really they don't need any more players or talent. I doubt this team uses a substantial portion of their TE, if at all.

Phoenix Suns - $2mil TPE
Nash was extended. Wallace still counts on the payroll, though I’m not sure for how much, and I believe Pavlovic may be non-guaranteed for $1.5m , but regardless I see their payroll as close to $78m currently (74.5 post Pavs). For a team that has been very tight with their wallet, and a pretty full roster, I’m not sure this gets used, then again they did go after VonWafer.


IMO the only team that would realistically use their TPEs is:

Miami Heat - $4.2mil TPE

BUCKS/HEAT

J.Alexander, W.Sharpe*, 2011 #2
*(cannot be traded right away...waived anyway)

for

TPE

Why for Miami...

Dollar for dolloar J.Alexander and Sharpe add close to $6.5m in tax and salary, but considering they lost Moon and James Jomes and Dorrell Wright both had injury plagued seasons, (and didn't show much in the time they did play) Alexander might not be a bad risk and form a forward tandem with Beasley with a lot of athleticism and youth. Perhaps Wade will appreciate the effort and the spent money but I think that would only be a small motivation for this deal, as bigger moves must still be made.

Chalmers / Quinn
Wade / Cook / Diawara
Alexander / J.Jones/ Wright
Beasley /Haslem / Blount
O'Neal / Anthony / Magloire

They surprisingly have a very young, talented, and cap friendy squad that has potential to be special if all goes to plan.


Why for Milwuakee

The 3.3m saved makes it that much easier to match Sessions' offer which they need to do IMO. Jennings could be years away from contributing, while Sessions could tutor for the next 2 years or so before his deal is up or he is traded. This team would be awful w/o Sessions, and at least somewhat competitive with him.

Sessions / Jennings / Ridnour
Redd / Bell / Meeks
LRMM / Warrick / Weems
Ilyasova / A.Johnson / K.Thomas
Bogut / Gadzuric / Elson

[ecuhus1981]

PRELIMINARY ROUND EVALUATIONS

***Fellow judges: feel free to use this format as a template, or create your own. But let's keep the criteria consistent, with these three categories.***

Denver Nuggets Trade: Allen Iverson TPE for 5.2 million, Chucky Atkins TPE for 1.7 million
Denver Nuggets Receive: Kyle Korver, Francisco Elson

First of all, thanks for kicking this off with a trade that works! This is really two transactions; it's not "combined into one" at all, even if TradeChecker gives it one Trade ID#. Anyway, I believe that the win-now DEN organization would pull the trigger on the right TPE trade, but I don't see this as it. They just traded Hunter for capspace, and Elson is a similar player. As for Korver, they just acquired a much cheaper, younger version (who plays D, too) in Afflalo. Seems redundant to me.
ORIGINALITY - 5
FEASIBILITY - 5
EFFECTIVENESS - 3

LA Lakers Outgoing: $2.22 mil TPE from Chris Mihm
Incoming: Acie Law

Smart. The Lakers' approach to finding PGs is more geared toward diamond-in-the-rough FAs (e.g. Parker, Brown). But if Acie caught their eye enough, I suppose this could work well for both teams.
ORIGINALITY - 6
FEASIBILITY - 5
EFFECTIVENESS - 4

MIA gets: Brandan Wright
MIA trades: 2.7 mil TPE, MIA 2010 1st rounder, Cash

I like this idea, AS A FOLLOW-UP to a deal of JO/Beasley for win-now parts (STAT/J-Rich?). Otherwise, you've just traded a possible lottery 1st in what could be one of the deepest drafts in recent memory, for a 3rd-string PF. As I said, once the Heat are in full win-now mode, there isn't much chance of that '10 1st becoming super-valuable. But as the team stands now, Riley would be punch-drunk to trade a pick. Unfortunately, I have to grade this proposal on the here-and-now, so...
ORIGINALITY - 6
FEASIBILITY - 3
EFFECTIVENESS - 3

New Orleans out / New Jersey in: Julian Wright $2.00M
New Jersey out / New Orleans in: $2.00M TPE, using a part of NJ's larger TE, 2010 NJ 2nd round pick

NJN fans are fairly enamored with JuJu, and he would fill a void at SF/PF. I don't know if the Nets' FO want him badly enough to surrender a 2nd, though, especially since they have the rarer commodity in this transaction, and they already have 15 players under contract.
ORIGINALITY - 6
FEASIBILITY - 3
EFFECTIVENESS - 4

New York trades: $1.1M TE, protected 2010 2nd round pick
New York receives: Devin Brown

Not bad, but what does Devin do that Hughes and Crawford can't? As an insurance guard, it doesn't get much cheaper, and it seems NOH is ready to part with him. Again, I have a hard time seeing a probably lotto team surrendering a 2nd for a rotation guy, and a one-year rental at that.
ORIGINALITY - 5
FEASIBILITY - 2
EFFECTIVENESS - 3

Denver trades Renaldo Balkman (1 year/$2.1 million) for Phoenix TPE $2 million.

Sorry, bj, this deal does not work. I know you caught yourself later, but I cannot acknowledge your 2nd attempt.
DISQUALIFIED

[ecuhus1981]

Travis Diener (1.74M) to ORL for 1.74M of Turkoglu TPE and a heavily protected future 2nd round pick.

I could see Otis doing this deal, although I think they should look to a more established backup G.
ORIGINALITY - 7
FEASIBILITY - 4
EFFECTIVENESS - 4

Denver Sends: Most of the $2.1 Million TPE
Denver Receives: Jarvis Hayes

Trader_Joe may have spoken out of turn, but he hit the problem with this deal right on the head. I can't see the Nets moving him this year, as they could have simply declined this option year.
ORIGINALITY - 5
FEASIBILITY - 0
EFFECTIVENESS - 0

LAC Sends: 5.2 Million TPE, heavily protected future 2nd Rounder
LAC Gets: Kyle Korver

I just posted last week, about this very deal. I think he'd be the perfect role-player for Sr., and Blake brings the best out of shooters, and they do him.
ORIGINALITY - 3
FEASIBILITY - 7
EFFECTIVENESS - 7

Clippers trade: 3.945 Trade Exception
for: 1) Rasual Butler

Similar to the previous proposal, though Rasual doesn't add anything to the Clippers' roster, IMO. Shockingly inefficient and unproductive in starter's minutes last year, methinks his play will decrease further in a more crowded situation. Frankly, I'd rather play Thornton or even Ricky (and THAT'S saying alot!). I can see far better ways for LAC to spend $4mil.
ORIGINALITY - 5
FEASIBILITY - 2
EFFECTIVENESS - 2

LA Clippers Trade: 7.5 TPE
Sacramento Kings Trade: Andres Nocioni

The Kings couldn't ask for better value return. SAC fans may disagree and say that Andres is worth more than "nothing", but a TPE that large is worth MUCH more than nothing. He's decent, but LAC can't get enough use out of Noc' to justify absorbing his salary.
ORIGINALITY - 5
FEASIBILITY - 2
EFFECTIVENESS - 3

To acquire Elson, the Lakers must use a TPE.

For the purposes of grading, THIS is your proposal; the rest is just a backdrop. Elson would be a slight upgrade if Mbenga were headed out, but I don't see LAL shelling out cash for a 3rd C.
ORIGINALITY - 5
FEASIBILITY - 5
EFFECTIVENESS - 4

Sacramento gets: $6 million TPE
Orlando gets: Beno Udrih

The Magic are cap-strapped. They do not need a backup PG making above-MLE $ for the long-term. I'm not even sure he's a great fit; offensively, he fills needs, but he's an even worse defender than Jameer. I could see SVG giving Anthony all of the backup PG minutes because of this, which defeats the purpose of acquiring him.
ORIGINALITY - 5
FEASIBILITY - 1
EFFECTIVENESS - 2

[ecuhus1981]

Miami sends: TPE, 2nd round pick
Milwaukee sends: Kurt Thomas

Eh, Haslem and Anthony can cover C as well as Kurt IMO. It's not a long-term commitment, but again, this would have to be a follow-up from a bigger deal that puts MIA in position to contend.
ORIGINALITY - 5
FEASIBILITY - 2
EFFECTIVENESS - 3

Golden State trades: PG: Acie Law
Orlando trades: 2.2 million TPE

I like this, plain and simple.
ORIGINALITY - 7
FEASIBILITY - 7
EFFECTIVENESS - 7

Clippers Receive: Charlie Bell, J. Alexander
Bucks Receive: TPE, 2nd

You would have been better off trying to deal Luke and Joe (you'd have to take back someone like Ricky). Charlie is out of the question, even with a lotto dud as sweetener.
ORIGINALITY - 5
FEASIBILITY - 1
EFFECTIVENESS - 3

J.Alexander, W.Sharpe*, 2011 #2 for TPE

Let's just use players who could be traded TODAY.

I know it was just a footnote in a very large thread, but Walter's involvement in this deal puts it on the edge for me. I don't think it's fair to disqualify you, as Sharpe's removal would only diminish the effectiveness for MIL, not totally destroy the foundation of the deal. I do need to dock points in the feasibility category, though. I will say that Joe would be a nice low-risk pickup at this cost.
ORIGINALITY - 6
FEASIBILITY - 1
EFFECTIVENESS - 4

Killua, javaisfun, Ben_Dover and JayCarlock: Sorry, you did not beat the deadline. Better luck next time.

[SW567]

I'm not sure if I'm allowed to respond to the judging, but here goes. How the hell is LAC adding Nocioni more "feasible" and "effective" than Orlando adding Udrih? The Clippers clearly have no interest in adding long-term salary, and they're not trying to win-now, whereas the Magic are completely the opposite. And as bad as the Clippers are compared to the Magic, the Clippers' backups at SF and PF (the positions that Nocioni plays) are better than the Magic's backup PG.

But hey, I guess we'll agree to disagree.

[Finger Roll]

To acquire Elson, the Lakers must use a TPE.

For the purposes of grading, THIS is your proposal; the rest is just a backdrop. Elson would be a slight upgrade if Mbenga were headed out, but I don't see LAL shelling out cash for a 3rd C.
ORIGINALITY - 5
FEASIBILITY - 5
EFFECTIVENESS - 4

Thanks for the input, but how was I supposed to know that was the only part of my trade that would be judged?

OK, I thought that the best way to test participants' trading aptitude (and thereby, determine seedings) was to judge everyone on their ability to make a proposal involving a traded player exception (TPE).

You simply said the trade had to involve a TPE. My trade involved a TPE, so why was my entire trade not graded?

[vincecarter4pres]

Wow, you really must just hate me dude...

[sammydavis]

I'm very OK with your judgment ecuhus, but I don't agree with your comment on my trade...

Travis Diener (1.74M) to ORL for 1.74M of Turkoglu TPE and a heavily protected future 2nd round pick.

I could see Otis doing this deal, although I think they should look to a more established backup G.
ORIGINALITY - 7
FEASIBILITY - 4
EFFECTIVENESS - 4

...when you later grade Law as a great fit.

Golden State trades: PG: Acie Law
Orlando trades: 2.2 million TPE

I like this, plain and simple.
ORIGINALITY - 7
FEASIBILITY - 7
EFFECTIVENESS - 7

I don't see Law as a 'more proven' commodity as Diener, just a draft bust who is .5M more expensive (1M with tax).


And again, this is what I asked before the tournament:

1. Will the 3 criteria be judged totally independently or will they somehow correlate as seen before? I mean if someone screws the effectiveness of his trade he seems to get lower points for the other 2 criteria as well.

I seem to have been correct as the feasibility scores do follow the effectiveness scores instead of being independent...

ORIGINALITY - Have we seen this trade 1,000 times before on the T&T board?
FEASIBILITY - Does the trade meet CBA and roster requirements?
EFFECTIVENESS - Is the trade worthwhile for all teams involved?

If you can give 0-10 points for effectiveness that's a huge margin between good and bad, you shouldn't need to use another 10 points' worth of another criterion when that other criterion is for judging a totally different view of the trade.


Sorry, I don't want to be disruptive, I just wanted to point this out.
I'll shut up and just post my trades (if I get to the next round).

[RTM]

Just a note, you quote me for both the Korver and Butler to LAC deals. The Butler deal isn't mine, it was posted by someone else.

[ecuhus1981]

I'm not sure if I'm allowed to respond to the judging, but here goes. How the hell is LAC adding Nocioni more "feasible" and "effective" than Orlando adding Udrih?

For one, LAC is $8mil under the luxury tax, while ORL is $6mil over it. Andres would cost the Clippers $7.5mil this year, while Beno would cost the Magic $12mil with the dollar-for-dollar luxury tax penalty. Also, as I mentioned, I can see Nocioni filling a need behind or perhaps even in front of Thornton, with his toughness and better efficiency. In any case, I don't see Noc' having a problem beating out R. Davis/Novak for SF minutes. I don't see Udrih filling a need in SVG's rotation, because the primary qualities he seeks in rotation guards are defense and the ability to drive.

Thanks for the input, but how was I supposed to know that was the only part of my trade that would be judged? You simply said the trade had to involve a TPE. My trade involved a TPE, so why was my entire trade not graded?

Your deal was not ONE deal, it was two separate transactions that would not be allowed under the CBA if you tried to "combine" them. As I have stated several times in this thread, a TPE cannot be combined with another player. You cannot send out Farmar and AMMO in the same transaction in which you send out the TPE. IT CANNOT HAPPEN. Understand?

Wow, you really must just hate me dude...

You've imagined this elaborate illusion that I am somehow your nemesis, when nothing could be farther from the truth (at least from me). I have nothing against you. Udonis spent a ton of time at C in the first half of last year; he's not a real pivot, but neither is Kurt Thomas. Haslem is 6'8, 235lbs; Thomas is 6'9, 235lbs. Joel is bigger than both at 6'9, 245lbs, and has been effective as a backup (and occasional starting ) C. Tell me what about my evaluation of your proposal was false, then we'll talk.

Part II coming soon...

[CellarDoor]

Denver Nuggets Trade: Allen Iverson TPE for 5.2 million, Chucky Atkins TPE for 1.7 million
Denver Nuggets Receive: Kyle Korver, Francisco Elson

With Afflalo on board and birdman and Nene manning the pivot, this is an awful lot of money for two guys who won't see a whole lot o time. If I'm Denver I resign Kleiza rather than do this deal.
ORIGINALITY -7
FEASIBILITY -5
EFFECTIVENESS -2

LA Lakers Outgoing: $2.22 mil TPE from Chris Mihm
Incoming: Acie Law

With Brown in the fold I can't imagine Law being appreciably better than any of their three PGs currently.
ORIGINALITY - 7
FEASIBILITY - 5
EFFECTIVENESS - 2

MIA gets: Brandan Wright
MIA trades: 2.7 mil TPE, MIA 2010 1st rounder, Cash

Going against Euchus' assessment here. If the Heat are in full win-now what in the hell do they need with Brandan Wright who, simply put, hasn't show much on court value as of yet. Conflicting directions here.
ORIGINALITY - 7
FEASIBILITY - 5
EFFECTIVENESS - 3

New Orleans out / New Jersey in: Julian Wright $2.00M
New Jersey out / New Orleans in: $2.00M TPE, using a part of NJ's larger TE, 2010 NJ 2nd round pick

I like this for NJ. Wright fills a versatile need and won't cost them much of their capspace. The one thing of note here is that the second is likely to be pretty high and thus pretty valuable. Though that's the only reason I can see NOH doing it to begin with.
ORIGINALITY - 8
FEASIBILITY - 6
EFFECTIVENESS - 6

New York trades: $1.1M TE, protected 2010 2nd round pick
New York receives: Devin Brown

The second is overpaying for Brown who will likely not be seeing more than 15mpg and doesn't have a "ceiling"
ORIGINALITY - 8
FEASIBILITY - 5
EFFECTIVENESS - 4

Denver trades Renaldo Balkman (1 year/$2.1 million) for Phoenix TPE $2 million.

guess I'm going with Euchus here. DQ

[CellarDoor]

Travis Diener (1.74M) to ORL for 1.74M of Turkoglu TPE and a heavily protected future 2nd round pick.

Unless i'm missing something, who becomes Indy's back-up point after this? Jack signed with Toronto.
ORIGINALITY - 7
FEASIBILITY - 5
EFFECTIVENESS - 3

Denver Sends: Most of the $2.1 Million TPE
Denver Receives: Jarvis Hayes

Hayes' TO indicates NJ wants to keep him this year. Can't see their reasoning for doing it.

ORIGINALITY - 4
FEASIBILITY - 2
EFFECTIVENESS - 1

LAC Sends: 5.2 Million TPE, heavily protected future 2nd Rounder
LAC Gets: Kyle Korver

I'll have to take Euchus word on it being posted last week. I'm really not sure that the clippers view themselves as contenders this week though, so given their owners tight wallet, it might not be quite as possible as he thinks.
ORIGINALITY - 3
FEASIBILITY - 5
EFFECTIVENESS - 7

Clippers trade: 3.945 Trade Exception
for: 1) Rasual Butler

No one's going to pay Rasual Butler voluntarily unless they're sending some long term salary back.
ORIGINALITY - 5
FEASIBILITY - 2
EFFECTIVENESS - 2

LA Clippers Trade: 7.5 TPE
Sacramento Kings Trade: Andres Nocioni

Is Nocioni worth LAC's potential capspace next year? I can't imagine so.
ORIGINALITY - 7
FEASIBILITY - 2
EFFECTIVENESS - 2

To acquire Elson, the Lakers must use a TPE.

For the purposes of grading, THIS is your proposal; the rest is just a backdrop. Elson would be a slight upgrade if Mbenga were headed out, but I don't see LAL shelling out cash for a 3rd C.

^^I Agree
ORIGINALITY - 7
FEASIBILITY - 2
EFFECTIVENESS - 2

Sacramento gets: $6 million TPE
Orlando gets: Beno Udrih

Beno's getting paid too much to be Jameer's back-up the entire time. And as Euchus noted, it's hard to find a worse defender at PG than Nelson, but you did it.
ORIGINALITY - 7
FEASIBILITY - 1
EFFECTIVENESS - 1

[CellarDoor]

Miami sends: TPE, 2nd round pick
Milwaukee sends: Kurt Thomas

I like it. KT helps them this year manning some back-up minutes and providing solid positional defense. He expires at the end of the year and doesn't effect their future plans. For Milwaukee, they were contemplating cutting him anyways iirc.
ORIGINALITY - 8
FEASIBILITY - 6
EFFECTIVENESS- 7

Golden State trades: PG: Acie Law
Orlando trades: 2.2 million TPE

I like this as well. Cheaper than Beno, though not as good a PG as Diener
ORIGINALITY - 8
FEASIBILITY - 5
EFFECTIVENESS - 5

Clippers Receive: Charlie Bell, J. Alexander
Bucks Receive: TPE, 2nd

Same issue as a lot of the other LAC trades: this cuts into 2010 capspace and they're not getting anyone appreciably better than the guys they'd be replacing.
ORIGINALITY - 7
FEASIBILITY - 3
EFFECTIVENESS - 2

J.Alexander, W.Sharpe*, 2011 #2 for TPE

Let's just use players who could be traded TODAY.

Going with Euchus' general assessment, but given your penchants to try and diminsh other's trades rather than focusing on yours I have to believe you had time to notice Euchus' instructions.
ORIGINALITY - 7
FEASIBILITY - 1
EFFECTIVENESS - 1

Killua, javaisfun, Ben_Dover and JayCarlock: Sorry, you did not beat the deadline. Better luck next time.