Artest Question

[TruMamba]

I have read some places that Artest has lost a step and is on the decline and lost athletism.

I know he isn't the defender he once was but do you think the rest is true? I think 29 is prime years and he had an ankle injury that was part of the problem and he was new.

Thanks.

[TEXNIFICENT09]

Well let me start by saying you won't ever have to worry about Artest playing hard, the guy BRINGS IT every time he's on the floor. But the media has built him into this "DEFENSIVE SUPERMONSTER" when that just isn't the case anymore. While he has elite strength for a player of ANY size, his overall athleticism is WAAAY OVERRATED, always was. (Evidenced by his difficulty of consistently finishing plays above the rim). He's a crafty and strong basketball player whose ego makes him try things offensively that he isn't capable of. He kind of reminds me of an Anthony Mason with a better Jump shot. But his days as a defensive stopper are over; the elite athletes simply rise up and shoot over him. Ask yourself who was guarding Kobe when it mattered (Battier), where was this "DEFENSIVE SUPERMONSTER" when Lamar Odom was having success, and Brandon Roy straight gave him the business! That being said he's still got game and is a much better fit as the Laker's 4th or 5th best player than your best player (as he would have been in Houston). He'll be a tad easier to control and maybe more willing to conform under Phil( but you never know we are talking about Artest!) But for my money, paying Trevor Ariza a little more than the midlevel would have been worth it not to have to deal with Artest's baggage.

[TruMamba]

Thank you. I always knew he was not an above the rim player anyway but when people are saying he is declining and losing athletism at 29 I didn't think it was correct.
Do you? I see the Anthony Mason comparison and know what you by that.

[czarleon09]

He's not declining athletically but there are going to be probably 5-10 games where you will hate having Artest on your team. He may decide that night he's just not going to run the offense Phil sets up or he might randomly get in the face of someone on the other team (like he did with Kobe during the playoffs) 72-77 games he will be a good addition for you.

[moofs]

I disagree. He HAS declined. In all likelihood, I can't recall, he was probably always able to be shot over, but in the past, people couldn't run AROUND him like they do now. He was getting torched by Kobe and Roy because they kept getting to the rim and he couldn't do a thing about it, not because they were hitting Js on him all day. That sort of thing didn't happen in the past. The step he's lost is a lateral one. SG/SFs don't build reputations as defensive gurus by letting people attack the rim all day.

I didn't like having him on the team most of the year (though not to a degree where I was ardently begging for him to be gone - a la Stromile Swift) due to both his defensive decline and his pathetic offensive game, which was only saved by his sudden improvement to a 40% 3p shooter. Very happy that you guys took him off our hands.

[RoxFan08]

He's definitely losing some of his athleticism and especially speed, but I have no idea how much of it has to do with his weight, which is something ridiculous like 260.

His biggest strength as a player has to be his ability to guard strong, physical players -> Lebron, Pierce.

He's not quick enough anymore to stay with guys like Roy, but fortunately you guys still have Kobe who can chase the faster guys around.

He'll give you everything he's got when the game's on the line. Sometimes you'd rather have him pass the ball to let someone else take that fading 22 ft jump shot, but when he banks it off the glass, all you feel are tears of joy.

[moofs]

Make that "31 year old Kobe Bryant who can chase the faster guys around". As I've stated before, the Lakers WILL miss Ariza.

[TMACFORMVP]

Artest has become an average defender, he's no longer elite on that end of the floor, and at times a liability. His lateral quickness has tremendously dropped off, he refuses to fight through screens and gambles more than any player in the league. I think the game against the Lakers perfectly summed up his defensive decline, Kobe gets the ball at the three point line, Artest goes for the gamble (as he always does), in which he misses, and the result is a Kobe wide open three pointer, turning out to be nearly the game clinching jumpshot. Against a guy like Roy, that uses the pick on most of his possessions, Artest is nearly useless.

Some might point out the game where LeBron had zero assists, and he did do a solid job that night, but our whole defensive gameplan was to leave LeBron open off the screen or pick. Everytime LeBron came around one, all our players ran to the paint, and Bron settled for the jumpshot all night, in which it was off.

I'm not saying Artest will be a bad signing, it's just frustrating to see analysts clamoring that he'll open up Kobe's game (if it can open even more..) because of Artest's defensive prowess. The Lakers will most likely repeat IMO, but not because Artest takes them to 70 wins the way some or claiming. I don't even think they'll be better than last year, but possibly good enough to be the champs once again.

Anyways, Lakers will find a way to make it work out, but Artest has definitely lost a step defensively.

[DumbyTheWizard]

Well, with the Rockets he played a lot of the 2 guard position which mad him guard the Kobes and Roys of the league. in LA he would play as a SF and would compete much better with Melo, Lebron, Pierce etc.

[jove9]

I agree that he doesn't have the lateral quickness he used to, but he's extremely strong and more than capable of guarding the Lebrons of this league (right Moofs? ).

He's extremely passionate and competitive and he doesn't like to lose, but sometimes that leads him to do dumb things like dribbling too much or taking bad shots.

I was never an Artest fan, but last year I came to respect him a lot more.

[czarleon09]

I didn't like having him on the team most of the year (though not to a degree where I was ardently begging for him to be gone - a la Stromile Swift) due to both his defensive decline and his pathetic offensive game, which was only saved by his sudden improvement to a 40% 3p shooter. Very happy that you guys took him off our hands.

Why did you have to go and bring up Stromile Swift. I had just finished blocking him from my memory forever, now I have to start all over again. I will agree with you about Artest's weak offensive game last season though.

[TruMamba]

I know for sure he has declined defensively. If not he would have been DPOY every year.

Now you guys said he has slowed but does it look like he has declined offensively to? Does he have a problem driving by people because he is to slow? It's nothing like that is it?

Besides sometimes having poor shot selection and after the ankle injury would you guys still think his scoring is as good as it always been or has he lost a step on offense?

[jove9]

I know for sure he has declined defensively. If not he would have been DPOY every year.

Now you guys said he has slowed but does it look like he has declined offensively to? Does he have a problem driving by people because he is to slow? It's nothing like that is it?

Besides sometimes having poor shot selection and after the ankle injury would you guys still think his scoring is as good as it always been or has he lost a step on offense?

Artest doesn't really take guys off the dribble or attack the rim. That's not his game. When he tried to do that last year, 9 times out of 10 he missed the shot (hence his horrible FG %).

He scores best by posting up and hitting long (open) jumpers.

He'll get you points, but he's not a slasher. At least not any more, if he ever was one.

[moofs]

Now you guys said he has slowed but does it look like he has declined offensively to? Does he have a problem driving by people because he is to slow? It's nothing like that is it?

Besides sometimes having poor shot selection and after the ankle injury would you guys still think his scoring is as good as it always been or has he lost a step on offense?

His scoring was never that good. In some ways, it's gotten better (thanks to his increased percentages), in some, it's possibly gotten worse (ball movement). He doesn't really drive past people so much as he wedges them to the side and they can't stop him from doing it. This provides AMPLE opportunity for weak-side and on-the-ball blocks when he finally gets to the rim.

We had a bunch of posters touting his ability to post up. I never figured out why, it never seemed to work. Note his .327, .438, and .222 shooting percentages from the blocks, with a paltry .451 from inside the circle. Let me put this in perspective: RAFER ALSTON WAS BETTER FROM THOSE AREAS THAN RON ARTEST (check NBA Hotspots). (p.s. the bold and caps were aimed at certain posters on our board, not you) (edit: No Jove! Don't go to the dark side! Aaaah!)

You're best off, without question, if he camps at the 3p line and shoots set-shots from inside the 45-135 degree arc, but he doesn't like doing that - only of 298 of 1,037 shots were from there last season.

I agree that he doesn't have the lateral quickness he used to, but he's extremely strong and more than capable of guarding the Lebrons of this league (right Moofs? ).

You're trying to make my skull spontaneously burst open so my brains can agonizingly gurgle to the floor, aren't you? Do you really need Youtube videos to upload that badly?

[TEXNIFICENT09]

In the NBA wing players come in all different sizes and styles of play, Artest was never a top shelf athlete but possessed good functional basketball athleticism (ala Shane Battier) and gave very an intense effort. Once his reputation was built, he started to get away with a lot of touching and grabbing with the refs. But I think his weight is the biggest issue. When you're 22 you can carry extra weight and still produce but as 30 years old approaches you have to take care of your body. You can’t chase those NBA Greyhounds on the perimeter at 260lbs (NO MATTER WHO YOU ARE!) Truthfully Ron Artest could stand to lose about 25 to 30LBs. This would improve his lateral movement. Offensively against other swingman he is an absolute load when he posts up but after getting to the line a few times he grows tired of it and goes back to over dribbling and launching three point shots. When the three ball falls he looks great and when they don't, YOU WANT TO CHOKE HIM!!!!!!!!! Again his ego tells him that he’s an attack player off the dribble when in actually he’s not.

[TruMamba]

In the NBA wing players come in all different sizes and styles of play, Artest was never a top shelf athlete but possessed good functional basketball athleticism (ala Shane Battier) and gave very an intense effort. Once his reputation was built, he started to get away with a lot of touching and grabbing with the refs. But I think his weight is the biggest issue. When you're 22 you can carry extra weight and still produce but as 30 years old approaches you have to take care of your body. You can’t chase those NBA Greyhounds on the perimeter at 260lbs (NO MATTER WHO YOU ARE!) Truthfully Ron Artest could stand to lose about 25 to 30LBs. This would improve his lateral movement. Offensively against other swingman he is an absolute load when he posts up but after getting to the line a few times he grows tired of it and goes back to over dribbling and launching three point shots. When the three ball falls he looks great and when they don't, YOU WANT TO CHOKE HIM!!!!!!!!! Again his ego tells him that he’s an attack player off the dribble when in actually he’s not.

I agree he should lose weight. Lebron is the only player who can be 274 which he is up to.

Artest wrote on his twitter page that he has been working out adding muscle and will have muscles coming out of his elbows.
Now in my expierence usually when you work out you get leaner and lose weight. If he did that then that would be fantastic but I do fear that he might have added bulk and it will make him weigh more.
I can only hope he got a little leaner.
I really had no idea he couldn't drive to the hoop. I thought that was one of his go to moves. I was very surprised and scared when I saw the actual numbers.

[kevC]

Artest is still a fine defender but he does have trouble against quick players.

I will say this, however. There is not another player in the league that I would have defending Lebron James than Artest.

[Guy986]

Artest's signature shot is to get an open look at the 3, hesitates for a moment so his defender catches up to him, dribbles the ball once so his foot is on the line and then launch a 22 foot off balance fadeaway jumper with a hand all over his face.

[czarleon09]

Artest's signature shot is to get an open look at the 3, hesitates for a moment so his defender catches up to him, dribbles the ball once so his foot is on the line and then launch a 22 foot off balance fadeaway jumper with a hand all over his face.

I thought Artests signature move was to punch the guy in the stands next to the guy who threw a beer at him?

[TMACFORMVP]

Artest is better offensively than he is defensively, his three point shot is nearly automatic when his feet are set, but that's obviously easier to say considering even if Artest is open, he'll sometimes like to make the shot tougher than it is. He has a solid backdown game with the little fadeaway from 10 feet out, but he isn't the finisher one would expect with a guy of his build. He can put up the points, but he's streaky with his shot, partly due to his awful shot selection. Maybe the Lakers can discipline his offensive game more, but I wouldn't count on too much.