The Fatal Flaw with this Roster

[wiff]

So the other day a friend of mine was giving me a bad time about the Thunder's roster.

He said.....

They might not have the ideal front court to win a championship

That's the understatement of the century. You'd think Wiffler had enough experience over the last decade of watching crappy Sonics teams that he'd understand a team built around perimeter players with a big ol' donut in the middle ain't gonna win squat.

As much as I hate to admit it he is absolutely right.

I still think that this team has a dark horse shot as the 8 seed but until this team can find a legitimate player in the post on both sides of the ball this team won't get out of the first round of the playoffs or compete for the playoffs.

I also don't expect this team to solve this problem this year.

However I think the two most likely candidates currently on the roster to achieve this are Durant and Ibaka.

Again if Presti commits to Green being a member of the Thunder, I think this team will be best served if Durant can bulk up enough to cover PF's.

I want to believe these kids will be able to catch lightening in a bottle this year, but with no real post presence, history says otherwise.

I predicted 35 wins this season and I'll stick with it but this team could win 30 games or 42 games depending on how much they improved this offseason.

[slick_watts]

I think everyone has to operate under the assumption that the roster is incomplete. Obviously they know they need someone in the middle to play some defense on the interior (Tyson Chandler trade). Tyson Chandler, assuming good health, would have been the perfect kind of big for this team.

Low post scoring would be nice, but I don't think it's nearly as important for this team than getting someone who can defend the better big men in the league. Teams such as Dallas have shown that you can excel, and even make the Finals, with a team lacking a dominant inside presence on offense as long as you have efficient shooters and move the ball well. It worked for Dallas because Dirk was efficient enough from the field to more or less get what the best low post scorers get. I think Durant can perform the same function on offense for the Thunder and make their need for dominant inside scoring less of an issue than, say, Sonics teams in the past.

Defense is a whole other story, and you and Dick are correct. They need at least one good, tough interior defender in the front court. This either means find that elusive center, or in my opinion the more likely outcome, Jeff Green is either traded for a PF who can play some defense or the Thunder draft a PF in next year's PF-rich draft and send Green to the bench.

[Nolan]

From an outsiders perspective you guys having an amazing core of young talent with Durant, Westbrook, Green and Harden but you guys really don't have any balance to your roster. All your best players are perimeter players and you really don't have an inside presence. I think this team needs a banger in the low post to rebound and to anchor your defense.

[HomieOmey]

Chandler would have been great, but Chandler and Green would still leave a lot to be desired. I think Milsap would have been an adequate starting PF, but this team will still have to look to the draft, free agency, or trades to improve the front court. Bosh would have been incredible, but if Harden can somehow develop into a Roy or Pierce like talent that will save the Thunder from having to find a premier big.

[KR4]

Maybe you guys need Don Nelson as your coach? You know, a little smallball FTW type of thing.

In all seriousness though, going small is going to be to this roster's advantage right? I would love to see a squad running Durant at the 5, Green - 4, Harden - 3, Westbrook - 2, Livingston - 1. They'd get used by a team like the Lakers, but I think they'd run the **** outa some lineups. I'll be watching on the NBALP to see if it comes true.

[wizkid27]

Durant at the 5 scares me... and not in a striking fear into the other teams' hearts kind of way. He needs to bulk up and improve in several areas to have a legitimate role as a 4 in a "small ball" rotation, especially if there isn't a towering center next to him.

[Symbol80]

I can't stand the "we need Bosh or Amare" arguments any further...most notably if we are talking bout interior defense...
i think that in the next 2 years we'll be able to snatch somebody via draft or freeagency or trade who fills this need and @ that time we dont have to rely heavily on postplay but need it as a complementary part...and im convinced if the whole franchise can keep this "genius" level alive we'll be very attractive for "good", "verygood" or "supastar" players...i'm dreamin of LBJ at the 4...

[wizkid27]

While I agree with you Symbol, it is tough to deny that getting Bosh or Amare through FA would greatly improve the team.

Now, they definitely don't do much to solve the interior D weakness and honestly don't do a whole lot to give us a premier rebounder. Amare especially, has always been underwhelming in that area.

[Hiphophead101]

Your primary talent is at the 3. Larry Bird did it. Rick Barry did it. LeBron has come close. I think Durant can too.

Nothing to trip about.

[Symbol80]

@wizkid27

They are both definitely verygood players but like you said, the only thing they can give us is more scoring - but not really inside the paint - and that will be an area where the developement of the team in terms of experience will catch up...

...i mean look at portland and what they ar boosting @ the 5. i think if you can get that kind of productivity that will be enuff and Aldrigde is their best post player right now and he likes to shoot Js very much and green can be maybe equal in terms of production?!

so what i'm saying, there are only few teams left who really can say they have "low-post-players" and the trend is heading in another direction so i'll be fine with krstic, green, collison and some of the new guys or maybe some Noah, Aldrich-type of player who can "bang"...

[slick_watts]

I don't see any of the FA big men next year being much of a help, unless they're brought in to replace Jeff Green and the Thunder get someone who can defend the interior at center. Chris Bosh or Amar'e Stoudemire could work if there was a center on the roster who could defend.

Could Jeff Green get a solid center back in a trade? If so it might be worth pursuing one of the big names.

[Hiphophead101]

Jeff Green has good postup game too, the guy is smooth with his back to the basket, its just that hes so good at other things. He can facing up, or side-bar his opponent and be just as effective as a regular post player. Lets see how Byron Mullens turns out, its rare to see a guy that agile and athletic at 7'0 tall. I have a feeling presti had the steal of the draft with that one.

Getting Mo Cheeks as an ASSISTANT! This team is not messing around. IMO franchise with the biggest potential to be great.

TWolves still have question marks, Knicks still have question marks, Memphis still has question marks, I see none with the thunder. If Serge Ibaka develops into a stud 4, or DJ White does - Green will make an excellent 6th man off the bench, Lamar Odom esque.

Oklahoma City - Bon appetite! You got yourself a reeeeaallll looker

[NashtyNas]

From an outsiders perspective you guys having an amazing core of young talent with Durant, Westbrook, Green and Harden but you guys really don't have any balance to your roster. All your best players are perimeter players and you really don't have an inside presence. I think this team needs a banger in the low post to rebound and to anchor your defense.

That's the whole point. I think the Thomas trade helped that, because he's a solid defender, rebounder, shot blocker, and he can hold his own against most centers, which helps them for this year, as the roster is in no way complete. Maybe Mullens can get a few minutes here and there, and Ibaka as well, but this year its going to be Kristic/Thomas (C) and Green/Collison (PF) up front most of the time.

[wizkid27]

I think that we'll see the 96 minutes of C/PF minutes go to:
Green (30 getting a few more at the 3)
Collison (26)
Krstic (25)
White (15)

Then Thomas, Mullens, and Ibaka will only see minutes from injuries and blowouts (hopefully blowouts in which the Thunder are winning). I don't really see Thomas being a big part of the rotation at all.

[HomieOmey]

I can't stand the "we need Bosh or Amare" arguments any further...most notably if we are talking bout interior defense...
i think that in the next 2 years we'll be able to snatch somebody via draft or freeagency or trade who fills this need and @ that time we dont have to rely heavily on postplay but need it as a complementary part...and im convinced if the whole franchise can keep this "genius" level alive we'll be very attractive for "good", "verygood" or "supastar" players...i'm dreamin of LBJ at the 4...

It's not that the Thunder NEED Bosh or Amar'e, they're just two of the better bigs in the league and both seem somewhat available. Pretty much all great teams have elite bigs (usually defensively, but premier offensive bigs like Bosh and Amar're are nice too). With Green at the starting 4 spot, the Thunder will probably never be elite defensively. If someone like Dalembert or Chandler is all that the Thunder can get their hands on, that's fine with me, but it still leaves the team needing a much better inside presence offenisvely.

I'm fine with building the Denver route (surrounding their offensive perimeter with strong bigs who play D), but whatever way the Thunder decide to go, it's unlikely that Green will be enough to hide the weaknesses of whatever average starter joins the Thunder. You pretty much need a Dwight Howard or Bynum type big if you're going to CONTEND with Green.

[wiff]

I can't stand the "we need Bosh or Amare" arguments any further...most notably if we are talking bout interior defense...
i think that in the next 2 years we'll be able to snatch somebody via draft or freeagency or trade who fills this need and @ that time we dont have to rely heavily on postplay but need it as a complementary part...and im convinced if the whole franchise can keep this "genius" level alive we'll be very attractive for "good", "verygood" or "supastar" players...i'm dreamin of LBJ at the 4...

It's not that the Thunder NEED Bosh or Amar'e, they're just two of the better bigs in the league and both seem somewhat available. Pretty much all great teams have elite bigs (usually defensively, but premier offensive bigs like Bosh and Amar're are nice too). With Green at the starting 4 spot, the Thunder will probably never be elite defensively. If someone like Dalembert or Chandler is all that the Thunder can get their hands on, that's fine with me, but it still leaves the team needing a much better inside presence offenisvely.

I'm fine with building the Denver route (surrounding their offensive perimeter with strong bigs who play D), but whatever way the Thunder decide to go, it's unlikely that Green will be enough to hide the weaknesses of whatever average starter joins the Thunder. You pretty much need a Dwight Howard or Bynum type big if you're going to CONTEND with Green.

Really Bynum? I know Bynum has shown flashes of being a good player but the kid is so mercurial along with brittle. I'm just not hot on him personally.

I still get what you are saying though.

I think the odds of Durant growing (literally) into a PF is more likely than the Thunder landing a Howard or "Bynum" type of player at the Center spot. I think that will be the easiest way for Durant to become a better defender too. He can use his length and not have to rely on his speed, Durant is quick but comparatively that isn't his strong point on the perimeter. If he can bulk up to 240ish next year, I see no reason why he can't have a similar progression to KG and Dirk. They both went from SF to PF. Jeff Green moves to SF on D which perimeter D is his strong point.

[HomieOmey]

Not getting any significant upgrades in the near future (still no rush) just puts a lot of pressure on the young core to develop. Right now, Durant is the only guy the Thunder have who should be a definite advantage against the majority of teams. Almost everyone else is going to be playing at a disadvantage unless they reach their ultimate potential. Right now there's A LOT of defensive pressure on Green, Collison, and Kristic. Forcing these guys to defend bigger, stronger, and more talented bigs on a nightly basis probably won't lead to the type of development and/or confidence you ultimately want to see.

[slick_watts]

I don't think KD eventually moving to PF would solve the problem since he hasn't really shown the ability to be a plus defender on the interior. Maybe on the perimeter or eventually as a weak side shot blocker, but not a big body to clog the paint.

I actually like how Collison plays defense, he just gets tired if you play him 30+ minutes a game with the way he plays.

I think a guy who might come real cheap who may help the Thunder in 2010 offseason is Brendan Haywood. He's had injury problems recently, but he's a big body and can be a nice 1/2 punch with Krstic if they intend to keep Green at PF..

[HomieOmey]

I think a guy who might come real cheap who may help the Thunder in 2010 offseason is Brendan Haywood. He's had injury problems recently, but he's a big body and can be a nice 1/2 punch with Krstic if they intend to keep Green at PF..

He's the kind of "average starter" I referenced earlier. I'd definitely be happy with his addition, I just don't think he is good enough in any area to hide the weaknesses of Green - which needs to be done to contend, I think. You're basically giving yourself a team that's always going to be at a disadvantage in the front court. The back court better develop into near stars! Again, no rush, but the sooner you can put a real nucleus together, the better for team chemistry. I'd happily wait to see what the next draft and free agency period does for the front court, but once that passes, the team better go into overdrive to complete its front court.

[HomieOmey]

Really Bynum? I know Bynum has shown flashes of being a good player but the kid is so mercurial along with brittle. I'm just not hot on him personally.

I'm not putting him on the same level as Dwight, he's just one of the few young bigs who has shown he can be a decent anchor on defense. LA already seems to be at their best defensively when he plays, which says a lot since he still has a lot to prove. He definitely has the potential to contribute a lot on defense and quite a bit on offense. The bigger, the stronger, and the more athletic the better if he's going to have to help Green with bigger front courts.