The Offical Fire JP thread

[Bam-Bam Bigelow]

Theres hope in sight for the Jays. Rumours (McCown, Blair, more then one source is nice) are reporting that the Jays will spend 100-120 million next year. That can be enough for another nice bat (Figgins, Bay) and pitcher (Bedard, Harden). Something along those lines would have the Jays as a legit threat. Figgins, Bay, Harden could all fit and keep this team below 120 mill. But is Figgins willing to play here and leave a good situation in LA? Being Canada's only team and showing a willingness to compete, would be helpful in getting Bay/Harden/Bedards attention.

JP has improved over the years. However, he has shown that he doesn't know how to spend money (Wells decision wasn't his but Ryan, Thomas, Koskie were). Him being an arrogant **** on top of not knowing how to spend money, is the reason he should be gone. Basically, JP isn't the worst gm in baseball as some on here have said. He's average but with a really poor attitude.

[zilby]

I think the big thing to retain here is that despite what JP has done as far as bad moves, he's had HUGE impediments to success. Financial impediments from budget, the imposition of Wells' contract, the contracting economy, the fact that we play in the AL East...

I mean, .500 is OK. He's not a BAD GM, he's mediocre to average.

Hoopstarr hit it, I mean we're not doing a bad job overall but because the Sox and the Yanks are so much richer and more successful, we get nowhere. We're behind basically the two richest teams in baseball, what do we expect, right?

tsherkin,

i personally dont care for excuses like "we're in the AL East" or "The Sox and Skanks are rich as bitches"

the fact is, no matter what disivion we would be in right now, we would still be positioned in 4th-5th.

i understand that the economy is crashing, but it has not been over most of JP's time here that he has
a) overpaid players
b) made bad moves
c) been afraid to spend money (part of the reason: he couldnt because he overpaid so many people)


I give no excuses for anybody in sports, and JP sure doesnt deserve it now.

[LLJ]

I can stand a jerk if he's a winner, and can laugh at a jerk who's a loser, but JP's the epitome of the worst kind of jerk--a mediocre one.

[zilby]

I can stand a jerk if he's a winner, and can laugh at a jerk who's a loser, but JP's the epitome of the worst kind of jerk--a mediocre one.

well said.

[tsherkin]

tsherkin,

i personally dont care for excuses like "we're in the AL East" or "The Sox and Skanks are rich as bitches"

That's nice?

Whether you want to allow for those factors or not, they exist and they are huge problems for the team. Yeah, JP hasn't wowed us with his ability to develop the team. He's missed the acquisition of some position players, handed out some bad contracts...

But at the end of the day, it still doesn't matter that much because the Yanks can just have a bad season and then go out and sign Mark Teixeira and AJ Burnett and it doesn't matter what their GM does as long as he makes a couple of good signings. It does happen to be true that they have a good farm system as well, but ultimately the amount of money that their able to throw around (Sabathia, anyone?) really determines their ability to be legitimate contenders.

We are routinely found to be BEHIND the Yanks and the Red Sox because they can inject money into their efforts and balloon their roster with talent that's unreachable to the Blue Jays.

That's not Ricciardi's fault.

the fact is, no matter what disivion we would be in right now, we would still be positioned in 4th-5th.

I disagree. Maybe you're just looking at our record? But our record would be different if we weren't facing the Yanks and the BoSox as frequently as we are now. There are only two teams in the Central Division with above-average offensive production, and one of them is a tank-squad Indians team that is irrelevant, the other a Twins team that is no better than we are at the moment.

You really think that Detroit and the ChiSox would be even to the Yanks and BoSox? Boston, the second-place team in our division, has 4 more wins than their division LEADER, and the Yanks 8 more wins than that.

You may not want to give JP an excuse and that's fine, but you can't ignore things that are eminently true.

[Hoopstarr]

I can stand a jerk if he's a winner, and can laugh at a jerk who's a loser, but JP's the epitome of the worst kind of jerk--a mediocre one.

well said.

lol. It's clear that you just want to believe what you want to believe. No amount of logic, reasoning, context, whatever, is gonna convince you otherwise.

[Michael Bradley]

Talking about the Yankees and Red Sox spending habits is an easy out though. The Jays have $30 million in sunk cost between Koskie, Ryan, and Thomas the last few years. They are giving a good player HOF level money until my grandkids have kids (Wells). They signed a redundant player to a huge contract which they eventually had to dump for nothing because it took them three years to figure out that having Wells and Rios on the same team is pointless. They are being out-scouted by the Red Sox and Rays. Let's not pretend that the Jays have been churning out star prospects and/or making bargain financial moves. They have been an average run team under Ricciardi (albeit better since 2006). That is not going to cut it in the AL East. They had the best pitcher in baseball the past 7 years at an affordable below-market rate and could not finish better than 8 games back of a playoff spot.

The Rays won the East last season and are competing for the Wild Card this year. It can be done. The margin for error is small, but it can be done. Put this Jays team in any other division since 2002 and they likely make the playoffs at least once. At the end of the day, it means nothing. Our situation will not change.

[Schad]

The Rays won the East last season and are competing for the Wild Card this year. It can be done. The margin for error is small, but it can be done. Put this Jays team in any other division since 2002 and they likely make the playoffs at least once. At the end of the day, it means nothing. Our situation will not change.

It can be done, but at the moment only if you're willing to pay to piper on draft day. The landscape has started to skew in favour of teams willing to go aggressively above slot, especially as the slot recommendations have dropped...in 2006 only six players in the top three rounds signed significantly above-slot deals (Andrew Miller, Ian Kennedy, Joba Chamberlain, Brett Anderson, Wes Hodges and Stephen King). This year I count roughly 15. Any underclassman with a pulse now expects to get a bit extra, which extends the margin of error for cheapish teams from small to microscopic.

[tsherkin]

Talking about the Yankees and Red Sox spending habits is an easy out though. The Jays have $30 million in sunk cost between Koskie, Ryan, and Thomas the last few years. They are giving a good player HOF level money until my grandkids have kids (Wells). They signed a redundant player to a huge contract which they eventually had to dump for nothing because it took them three years to figure out that having Wells and Rios on the same team is pointless. They are being out-scouted by the Red Sox and Rays. Let's not pretend that the Jays have been churning out star prospects and/or making bargain financial moves. They have been an average run team under Ricciardi (albeit better since 2006). That is not going to cut it in the AL East. They had the best pitcher in baseball the past 7 years at an affordable below-market rate and could not finish better than 8 games back of a playoff spot.

That's absolutely true, financial mismanagement is costing us the ability to compete to a degree, not question. We've definitely failed in certain areas.

The Rays won the East last season and are competing for the Wild Card this year. It can be done. The margin for error is small, but it can be done. Put this Jays team in any other division since 2002 and they likely make the playoffs at least once. At the end of the day, it means nothing. Our situation will not change.

Yeah, BUT... the Rays have had 4 #1 overall picks since 1999. That's netted them David Price (a key contributor), they got Evan Longoria with the 3rd pick... They nabbed Delmon Young, whom they flipped for basically Matt Garza. They took BJ Upton second overall.

And they picked Carl Crawford at the top of the second round in 1999.

The Rays are a bad example because they've benefited from a MASSIVE injection of talent from the top of the draft. Yes, they traded to get Kazmir, and they let Josh Hamilton go in the Rule 5 draft and what-not, but we've not had high picks like that to work, with.